the only version I've seen is the re-edit! I probably need to see it again but it seemed to me an above-average thriller with some compelling characters that launched into brilliance towards the end
― acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 20:32 (2 years ago) Permalink
yeah it's certainly more than that, the camper review is worth reading
if channel 4 did a top 100 things of any description ever, but with good things rather than shit, 'hank quinlan' would be a shoe-in
― nakhchivan, Monday, 13 September 2010 20:42 (2 years ago) Permalink
had a little skim of the review and was all "oh. ok. oops" - the movie will certainly receive another sitting
oh yeah and hank quinlan is never less than great whenever he's onscreen - the bit where he strangles that dude is awesome as well, and his air of attempted insouciance is constantly gripping
― acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 20:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
are there still any people who haven't been given a film crit salary through corruption/nepotism/blackmail etc who believe welles never made a great film past the age of 26?
it's not as if touch of evil or chimes at midnight are somehow partial or esoteric works of genius, they're transparently great films
― nakhchivan, Monday, 13 September 2010 20:57 (2 years ago) Permalink
hahaha as intimated upthread I'm calling F For Fake as his truly great later movie, but then I am unusual
I only quibbled TOE because the ending did things to me that the rest of the movie didn't - it held me absolutely rapt where the rest had entertained and cajoled me - perhaps that still makes the whole a great, climactic movie
― acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 21:00 (2 years ago) Permalink
^ yeah, that's the way i see it. TOE's climax rivals that of the third man, and the opening shot is stupendous, but i agree that the material in the middle is quite digressive and even bizarre: campy, self-sabotaging, oddly formed. in the sense that the third man is a triumph from front to back, this makes TOE seem like something of a failure. it's not at all consistent. but if eccentric inconsistency can be seen as a valid formal aesthetic, then TOE succeeds brilliantly on its own terms.
i'd agree that F is for fake and citizen kane are more and better controlled, perhaps even "better movies" in some ultimate sense. but i prefer TOE for personal reasons. and i tend to shoot for the one-by-one thing...
also also: peter greenaway - the falls
― having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Monday, 13 September 2010 21:15 (2 years ago) Permalink
Still prefer the pre-1998 version of TOE.
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 September 2010 21:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
haha and you know - eccentric inconsistency is a MASSIVE draw for me in various art forms including film - so to view it as a smorgasbord of tones and opposing forces will quite probably elevate it for me
the opening shot IS stupendous, it's like the opening shot of Crank in some ways. ha but srsly it's like a computer game starting. ready, set, go! the bomb is aboard. the wheels are in motion.
TOE's climax is better than The Third Man's climax IMO but then I haven't seen TTM in yeeeeears
― acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 21:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
wtf ppl loving F is for Fake?
think mine includes 'cleo de 5 a 7' and 'point blank'
I could too, on a given day.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, 13 September 2010 21:35 (2 years ago) Permalink
nice to see ppl picking things that oh so nearly made my ten - Andrei Rublev, The Hour of the Wolf (my favourite Haneke), The Red and the White.
think the thing i most regret abt my list is not finding any space for a britishes movie - really wanted to put fisher's The Devil Rides Out in there, but the final sequence w the giant spider does drag the movie down. shocked at noodle vague picking the most reactionary Carry On!
films that i'm sorta surprised nobody has voted for so far (unless i've missed em) - The Double Life of Veronique (any Kieslowski? or is he yesterday's man?), Werckmeister Harmonies, Chronicle of Anna Magdalena Bach, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre and The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser, which I personally prefer to Aguirre
― Ward Fowler, Monday, 13 September 2010 22:01 (2 years ago) Permalink
considered werckmeister, but would have to see it again. love kaspar hauer, but prefer aguirre. TCM is not a personal favorite and i basically forgot to think about keislowski. and taste of cherry (WTF, me?)
the hanneke you're thinking of is time of the wolf, right? i meant bergman's gothic. time of the wolf is great though - my favorite hanneke, too.
― having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Monday, 13 September 2010 22:06 (2 years ago) Permalink
I've seen Touch of Evil both pre- and post-restoration, and I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctly: the opening shot in the original comes with jazzy music (great) and credits overtop (distracting), while the restoration loses the credits (good) but also, to its detriment, the music? It's been a while--is that right? Anyway, I love it. The De Palma thread has some back-and-forth on Raising Cane; Touch of Evil, for me, is an example of a great director veering off into delirium and making it work brilliantly. I think you could also lose yourself in it with the sound off, even though you'd lose great lines like "You're a mess, honey." And in terms of Welles pondering his own career, it's so much smarter and more moving than F Is for Fake.
― clemenza, Monday, 13 September 2010 22:17 (2 years ago) Permalink
the enigma of kaspar hauser is easily herzog's best pre-cage work
i saw the opening scene on tv as a kid and was transfixed by the swaying wheat and pachelbel! so nice to discover later on what it was, and that i hadn't imagined it
― nakhchivan, Monday, 13 September 2010 22:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
easily herzog's best pre-cage work
lol
― having taken an actual journalism class (contenderizer), Monday, 13 September 2010 22:28 (2 years ago) Permalink
wtf ppl loving F is for Fake?― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Monday, September 13, 2010 9:35 PM (59 minutes ago) Bookmark
Yeah seriously, it's like repping for Jade as the best Friedkin.
― Matt Armstrong, Monday, 13 September 2010 22:36 (2 years ago) Permalink
because it's one of the most wonderfully grand, sly and overwhelming depictions of artifice in cinematic history? plus it has the chartres cathedral bit which is proper hairs-on-neck-stand-up material
― acoleuthic, Monday, 13 September 2010 22:38 (2 years ago) Permalink
F is for Fake is fine, but I can't rewatch it like I can Ambersons, TOE, or Chimes of Midnight.
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 September 2010 22:40 (2 years ago) Permalink
I've seen Touch of Evil both pre- and post-restoration, and I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctly: the opening shot in the original comes with jazzy music (great) and credits overtop (distracting), while the restoration loses the credits (good) but also, to its detriment, the music? It's been a while--is that right?
Yup. Also: the Grande-Suzie stand-off and the walk across the Mexican border in the first third play out in natural time without cross-cutting. Not an improvement, in my view.
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 September 2010 22:41 (2 years ago) Permalink
Which may or may not say something about the limitations of the auteur theory. The music was presumably a crass, studio-imposed contrivance. It's great.
― clemenza, Monday, 13 September 2010 22:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
lol duh at confusing the bergman and the haneke (they're both horror movies!)
― Ward Fowler, Monday, 13 September 2010 22:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
the music may be great but the ambient soundtrack is great also
not sure it matters ~that~ much anyway
― nakhchivan, Monday, 13 September 2010 23:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
Chimes at Midnight srsly handicapped by Keith Baxter and the fly-by-night financing. My three fave Welles remain Othello, Kane, Lady from Shanghai.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 00:22 (2 years ago) Permalink
man no ambersons?
― balls, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 02:39 (2 years ago) Permalink
The first 2/3, yeah. We really don't have his film.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 02:44 (2 years ago) Permalink
*Keeping fingers crossed that Metropolis guy in Argentina can find some footage*
― glengarry glenn ross campbell (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 02:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
See, Baxter's terrific; it's Welles who's the trouble.
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 02:47 (2 years ago) Permalink
Truncated Ambersons is better than intact Kane.
― Eric H., Tuesday, 14 September 2010 03:02 (2 years ago) Permalink
eric h = eric hearst
― balls, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 03:07 (2 years ago) Permalink
don't wanna know what rosebud equals
― glengarry glenn ross campbell (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 03:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
shocked at noodle vague picking the most reactionary Carry On!
They're all pretty reactionary :) Convenience just shows it more clearly cos of the contemporary setting, which is one of the reasons I love it + more or less ideal Carry On cast + hugely moving & nostalgic portrayal of a chunk of working class life that's more or less dead dead dead + genuinely sweet unrequited love story between Sid and Joan Sims.
― Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 06:46 (2 years ago) Permalink
It seems like insanity to put up Ambersons on these lists to me. The ending is atrocious.
― a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
Well, it's not Welles' ending at least.
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
besides, lots of the finished films on this list have more problems than Ambersons.
Fires on the Plain
watched it yesterday - great stuff!
― Zeno, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
It's a shame that it got butchered and the studio changed the ending, but it's still the film we've got. xpost
― a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 15:56 (2 years ago) Permalink
Tim Holt is about the least interesting lead actor in a Welles film 'cept maybe the Mr Arkadin guy
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 16:08 (2 years ago) Permalink
I know that Holt's performance is generally considered a major flaw, but I always found him oddly effective. His tentativeness and awkwardness, like he never quite seems to know what's going on around him, fits George Minifer.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 16:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
so he's Kim Novak Amberson
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 17:09 (2 years ago) Permalink
Which is preferable to Ruth Gordon Anderson.
― When Redd Turns To Blecch (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 17:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
― a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 16:49 (2 hours ago)
don't watch the ending then
― Chinedu "Edu" Obasi Ogbuke (nakhchivan), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 17:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
perhaps that's the best approach.
― a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 18:16 (2 years ago) Permalink
i think most fans (me included) sorta mentally tune out the ending.
― ryan, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 17:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
my boring, pedestrian list:
VertigoLolitaMulholland DriveAlienLove and DeathManhattanTaxi DriverAll About EveFantasiaRosemary's Baby
― Darin, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 19:49 (2 years ago) Permalink
Lolita
Which verzh?
― Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 15 September 2010 19:50 (2 years ago) Permalink
Kubrick - I forgot about the other one
― Darin, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 19:51 (2 years ago) Permalink
I was joking.
― Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 15 September 2010 19:52 (2 years ago) Permalink
straight down the lyne
― Chinedu "Edu" Obasi Ogbuke (nakhchivan), Wednesday, 15 September 2010 19:53 (2 years ago) Permalink
ha! xp
― Darin, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 19:54 (2 years ago) Permalink
My take on the two Lolitas:
Swain > LyonWinters > GriffithIrons = Mason
(Don't really remember Langella's perf in the '97 version, so can't compare him to Sellers.)
― jaymc, Wednesday, 15 September 2010 19:58 (2 years ago) Permalink
Kubrick >>>>>>1 Billion>>>>>>> LyneNabokov >>>>>>>>> Infinite >>>>>>>>> Schiff
― Eejit Piaf (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 15 September 2010 20:12 (2 years ago) Permalink