like putting the chorus into the boy's mouth - pretty sure she's done that at least once or twice before?
― subtle like the g in 'goole' (dayo), Monday, 13 September 2010 07:43 (thirteen years ago) link
anyway i don't think they're poorly sketched -- i think the "you made a rebel of a careless man's careful daughter" line does a lot of the legwork in a way that a line in a three minute pop song should
not to mention that this seems like an odd criticism of taylor in general -- i mean, you love that lady antebellum song right? you can't find two more basically sketched characters than the two in that song -- the-dream isn't exactly writing novels out there either, but it doesn't mean that the songs can't still be affecting & amazing
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 07:44 (thirteen years ago) link
laura marling comes from a completely different songwriting tradition and is trying to do completely different things with her music (and doing them very well) (to be slightly reductive, individual catharsis vs. relatable normativity).
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 13 September 2010 07:45 (thirteen years ago) link
i just read that t-swift sang a song about kanye at the vmas last night lol. tell me about it, people who watched! is it on youtube? i don't have time to read thge whole vmas thread.
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:00 (thirteen years ago) link
lady antebellum song isn't a character sketch, it's a song about a specific moment--where one is totally lonely and pathetic and drunk and longing--and it's much more relatable than Taylor's "uptight girl falls in love w/ boy and remembers when he said 'i love you'" narrative, which is dull and anonymous and doesn't ring true. there is nothing 'affecting' about "mine" at all.
the-dream isn't a girl with a guitar.
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:00 (thirteen years ago) link
comparing swift to marling is a bit like comparing, idk, carole king to pj harvey.
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:02 (thirteen years ago) link
lex, it's a decent song that would be better w/o the stigma of it being about kanyegate
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:04 (thirteen years ago) link
well, it's a really good song actually
what's it called? every news report i've read so far has neglected to mention this detail
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:06 (thirteen years ago) link
"mine" is about a specific moment too! notably the one sung about in the chorus -- it's just a bit fleshed out with background than "need you now" -- i don't think it attempts to be a 'character sketch' tho
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:06 (thirteen years ago) link
it's called "innocence" i think
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:07 (thirteen years ago) link
taylor swift needs to use some different narrative arcs imo
― subtle like the g in 'goole' (dayo), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:07 (thirteen years ago) link
& i don't really see the point of judging taylor's music as character sketches, seeing as she's not writing movie scripts -- she's writing pop songs
it's like the 'feminist' arguments against taylor as if female music should be judged 100% on how feminist it is
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:09 (thirteen years ago) link
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, September 13, 2010 3:00 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark
i also don't see what the difference is -- you only care if girls w/ guitars write songs that are good character sketches?
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:10 (thirteen years ago) link
you really don't listen to any female singer-songwriters do you
that movie script line is such bullshit
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:10 (thirteen years ago) link
taylor's songs aren't interesting enough for the lyrics to be bad.
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:12 (thirteen years ago) link
i don't think taylor is as monolithic a writer (subject-wise) as you're paint her to be, dayo -- her huge singles are maybe, but shit like "white horse" & "breathe" are much different than "love story" & "you belong with me"
also i think "mine" is is enough of a switch up in subject matter to still seem fresh -- i would at least hear the whole album first
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:14 (thirteen years ago) link
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, September 13, 2010 3:12 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark
well i disagree with the idea that her songs aren't interesting and that her lyrics are bad, so \(o_O)/
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:17 (thirteen years ago) link
Then, you took me by surpriseYou said, "I'll never leave you alone."
You said, "I remember how we felt, sitting by the water.And every time I look at you, it's like the first time.I fell in love with a careless man's careful daughter.She is the best thing that's ever been mine."
He knelt to the ground and pulled out a ringAnd saidMarry me Juliet you'll never hae to be aloneI love you and that's all I really knowI talked to your dad go pick out a white dressIt's a love story baby just say yes
― subtle like the g in 'goole' (dayo), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:18 (thirteen years ago) link
I guess it just annoys me that her latest big song kind of apes her last big song
because there's a POV change? that also happens in two of her 30 other songs? i guess it's not that big of an issue to me
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:21 (thirteen years ago) link
notice the part where I said "her last big song"
― subtle like the g in 'goole' (dayo), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:22 (thirteen years ago) link
i don't think it's bullshit to say that arguing that a pop singer's songs aren't good enough 'character sketches' might be missing the point of the music in the first place
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:22 (thirteen years ago) link
which reduces the set to 'love story, you belong with me, mine'
― subtle like the g in 'goole' (dayo), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:23 (thirteen years ago) link
her last big song was "you belong with me"
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:23 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm not gonna disagree that "mine" is structurally a lot like "love story" -- it's just a lot less fairy tale enough for me for it to not come off as a total retread
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:24 (thirteen years ago) link
also it seems taylor has an awful lot of fights @ 2 am in the morning
― subtle like the g in 'goole' (dayo), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:27 (thirteen years ago) link
i love the recurring taylor motifs - fights at 2am, kissing in the rain, tuesday nights &c
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:29 (thirteen years ago) link
*sigh*
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:31 (thirteen years ago) link
pop singers: rihanna, kesha, katy perry
girls with guitars: alanis morrisette, joni mitchell, taylor swift
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:34 (thirteen years ago) link
is taylor swift dueting w/ b.o.b. or john mayer?
damn dude, that is a fucking archaic way to view pop music
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:35 (thirteen years ago) link
lol @ the idea that kissing in the rain is a specific taylor motif, rather than just a terrible cliche
― just sayin, Monday, 13 September 2010 08:36 (thirteen years ago) link
tape store,
laura marling (and joni mitchell) comes from a completely different songwriting tradition and is trying to do completely different things with her music (and doing them very well) (to be slightly reductive, individual catharsis vs. relatable normativity).
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, September 13, 2010 7:45 AM (50 minutes ago) Bookmark
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:36 (thirteen years ago) link
i mean, if you're gonna sit here and argue that taylor swift -- literally the highest selling musician in america -- isn't a pop musician, then you're kind of insane
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:37 (thirteen years ago) link
was alanis morrisette not pop?
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:38 (thirteen years ago) link
yes...
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:39 (thirteen years ago) link
you're the one who seemingly set up the dichotomy between "pop musician" and "girls with guitars" -- alanis & taylor aren't (or weren't, in alanis' case) both?
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:40 (thirteen years ago) link
alanis morissette's songs are mostly even more "simplistic" than taylor's
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:40 (thirteen years ago) link
basically what i'm saying is that taylor is a part of the, um, let's say 'auteurist tradition,' and she's a p unremarkable auteur
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:40 (thirteen years ago) link
as opposed to someone like rihanna, whose main job is (often) to be a great interpreter
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:41 (thirteen years ago) link
lol my argument is getting v murky right now but taylor's lyrics still suck
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:43 (thirteen years ago) link
idk i think what you're doing is setting up like two totally different criteria with which to judge taylor or any female pop artist who plays an acoustic guitar
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:44 (thirteen years ago) link
well that makes more sense xp
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:45 (thirteen years ago) link
what i was trying to say is this:
taylor comes from the tradition of picking up a pen/piece of paper/guitar and writing/recording, and lyrics are an important part of this tradition. i think her lyrics are bland.
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:46 (thirteen years ago) link
like what separates taylor from coffeehouse performers?
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:47 (thirteen years ago) link
the auteurist tradition isn't as homogeneous as you're making out tho, TS
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:49 (thirteen years ago) link
because if we're going to start talking about taylor as a pop artist, then let's discuss the production.
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:50 (thirteen years ago) link
no, you're right, it's not. that's what i meant by 'murky argument,' since plenty of non-girls w/ guitars play the role of auteur.
― christopher dullan (Tape Store), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:51 (thirteen years ago) link
idk i think it's pretty obvious what separates taylor swift from colbie callait & sara barelies (too lazy to look up the spelling) let alone 'coffeehouse performers'
what are your beefs w/ the production
― banaka socka flame (J0rdan S.), Monday, 13 September 2010 08:53 (thirteen years ago) link