Big Star

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For giving Teenage Fanclub a career, classic. For inspiring every other halfwit Glaswegian indie band, dud.

Agree with dave q, the soppy gurly ballads win over the rockers everytime (esp on #1 record), and yup Sister Lovers is overwrought and overrated but any Lp with Holocaust, jesus christ and Kanga roo is ok by me (though I prefer This Mortal Coil's versions).

I will pass on the Raspberries coz' all I know about them is that they taste nice in trifle.

― Billy Dods, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Weeellll I've never been that partial to "#1 record" unless I'm completely in the right mood for it, the rockers sound forced but the ballads are wonderful, especially the last few on side two. "Radio city" is end to end genius without doubt. "Sister lovers" has too much of a reputation hanging around it of 'tortured genius' to ever live up to it - didn't NME vote it most depressing album of all time a few years back? Oh come on! But it still has moments. And I'm probably the only person here who'll admit that they like the Columbia live album (but hell I love the Posies so what do you expect?) The rockier songs from "#1" sound better on "Columbia" than the originals - discuss.

― Rob M, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

The three BS albums are like a drunk's progress. First album - happy buzz, sociable and 'up'. Second album - nasty, sloppy, mean-minded, initially amusing but unpleasant to be with. Third album - all the grief, dysfunction and ultimate serenity of the hangover. I like a lot of their stuff, I love a bit of their stuff - ultimately Chilton has to take some of the indirect blame for lo-fi's cult of the fuck- up.

― Tom, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Nice comparison Tom. Why didn't I have that idea? "Kangaroo" is the delirium tremens isn't it?

― alex in mainhattan, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Never heard them in my life.

― the pinefox, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

'Like Flies on Sherbert', the solo alb AC made after 'Sister Lovers', is the real good'un - we're talking one last reckless binge before the Betty Ford clinic beckoned. So ramshackle and woozy it makes the Dead C seem like King Crimson.

I also like 'I Am The Cosmos',the posthumous Chris Bell alb.

― Andrew L, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Foxy: you might actually like 'em quite a bit, especially the slower moments (Ballad of El Goodo, for ex., and of course the immortal Thirteen.)

Everyone else: The first two records rock Third's world. Radio City is, I think, my favorite of the moment, b/c tho it has fewer instant hits it feels mature and thoughtful as opposed to angsty. Also, because of Septermber Gurls. Third has probably the most breathtakingly stunning songs, but I can't listen to something so morose that often. I need lifestyle music, eh?

― Sterling Clover, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

dave q: I like the Raspberries reference. Very, very nice.

― JM, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Big Star weren't on Stax proper but rather Ardent, a Stax subsidiary with which Stax misguidedly took on the white rock market. I don't think it was much of a priority for Stax, which was a mixed blessing in that it allowed such a singularly weird band to pretty much do what they wanted but hurt them in that the Stax guys didn't have much interest in or aptitude for promoting anything other than soul.

― fritz, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Actually, Rob, I liked Columbia too, also being a fan of the Posies. I think it's maybe telling that I like a lot of the bands that Big Star influenced a bit more than I like Big Star proper (esp. Replacements), but mostly because they are more powerpop and eliminated most of the rawk cliches of those first two albums, whether they invented them or no.

― Sean Carruthers, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

anyway, what's wrong with kiss?

― g, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

or Teenage Fanclub for that matter? They have gotten a bit boring...

― g, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

The first time I heard "Thirteen" I nearly cried. I *heart* this band so much.

― Helen Fordsdale, Friday, 19 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Big Star totally live up to the hype. Their history is nearly as compelling as their music. "Radio City" defines it's era, much like X's "Wild Gift" defines it's own era.

― Mole Man, Saturday, 20 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Sean - doncha love it when everyone gets sidetracked?

I heard Big Star before I heard either the Posies or Replacements or even the Fannies (a brother who had exceedingly bad taste most of the time finally got something right when he got "#1 Record" / "Radio city" in '91), and I've converted my fellow bandmate (a Fannies / Replacements / Smithereens fan) into a BS fan, his trying to convert me on the 'Mats and Smithereens has never worked in my direction for some reason. But we're totally agreed on the Posies and the Fannies though. Odd. I just can't get my head around the 'Mats at all, I've tried loads of times with different LPs of theirs, but still nothing. Mind, Paul Westerburg's last solo LP was rather good!

― Rob M, Monday, 22 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Call me old fashioned but I think one property of an era-defining record ought to be people actually buying it during that era, not 20 years later.

― Tom, Monday, 22 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Smithereens - AAARGGGGHHHH (makes retching sounds)

― dave q, Monday, 22 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

It is an era defining record, era being 1990 unfortunately.

TFC way, way better than BS.

― Billy Dods, Monday, 22 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Could somebody PLEASE explain TFC's appeal? Start a new thread if you have to. This one really perplexes me.

― dave q, Monday, 22 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

From my experience, Teenage Fanclub is exemplary of most Britpop bands - Hey! We like such-and-such bands! Let's pay homage to them through shameless, lifeless emulation! Everyone'll LOVE us!

Bandwagonesque was all fine & good, but a bit slow (even when going fast) and surprisingly bland as a whole. Pleasant in certain situations, though. This is the only album I can confidently speak on, so feel free to ignore my pronouncements.

― David Raposa, Monday, 22 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Basically TFC = Big Star with 'originality' replaced by 'lyrics and sentiments early 90s students could relate to better'. As an early 90s student I hugely preferred them.

― Tom, Monday, 22 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

From my experience, Teenage Fanclub is exemplary of most Britpop bands

'Britpop' = term with huge ever growing scope creep

― Nick, Monday, 22 October 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

"Thirteen" is such a fucking good song.

― NA (Nick A.), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 20:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

Isn't it just.

― Sick Nouthall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 20:52 (9 years ago) Permalink

I like the third one the best myself. "Radio City" is the most fully realized of the three "official" BS albums, but "Third" really did something that hadn't been done before, I think.

The Stax org was in such disarray in the early '70s that it's a wonder the records even got out there as much as they did. I've read that each of the first two albums only got into the marketplace in ridiculously small quantities...4000/5000 is a number I've seen.

I don't know if they "define" any era. A post above maintains that to define era, their records would've have to been bought by somebody. So I guess they were one of the first true indie/critic's bands...the reviews were mostly glowing. In retrospect they do seem to define the period much better than any number of more popular acts, though. I see nothing wrong with revisionist nostalgia myself.

For a long time I loved them without reservation, then went thru a period during which I'd just heard them too much. For a lot of us they were like the Beatles, the absolute gold standard of pop records. Now I just accept them as a great pop band, period, and wish people would quit gushing about them so much, or maintaining that they weren't really all that good. As a live band they seem to have sucked; but I can't think of any better-conceived record than "Radio City." Such style. And they seem to define not an era but a state of mind, one epitomized by the Eggleston "red ceiling" photo that graced the original "RC" LP...bad dreams and vibes in an oversexed room, distilled into melancholy, perhaps? With a few good times vaguely recalled? Maybe that's the '70s, I don't know.

Interesting to see what the new Big Star album will be like...

― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 21:12 (9 years ago) Permalink

a friend of mine is assisting with the engineering at Ardent. He says it sounds amazing.

of course, Chilton & company could scrape a chalkboard with rusty chisels and this guy would say it's the best thing ever.

(I think I listen to Third the most, too)

― Will (will), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 22:25 (9 years ago) Permalink

there is a new studio album?

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 4 May 2004 22:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, they've been recording at Ardent since March, I believe.

I wonder how committed Chilton is to the whole idea of Big Star these days. Probably not very. I didn't think much of "Hot Thing."

― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 00:22 (9 years ago) Permalink

When did 'Hot Thing' come out?

― de, Wednesday, 5 May 2004 00:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

Umm, it was sometime after the Columbia reunion...maybe '95? It's on the somewhat misbegotten Rkyo "Big Star Story."

― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 00:26 (9 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, Â£15 for a 'best of', Â£10 for #1 Record/Radio City. Hmmm.

― de, Wednesday, 5 May 2004 00:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

Really? That's so wrong.

― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 00:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

guys seriously I love "Ballad of El Goodo" so much

I want to be in a band that covers this

― iiiijjjj, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 01:41 (5 years ago) Permalink

don't make me say a bunch of shit about it, just fire back re: yes this would be a pretty good thing to do, be in a band that covers this

― iiiijjjj, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 01:42 (5 years ago) Permalink

yeah

― ghost rider, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 01:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

I purchased the Blitzen Trapper song 'Summer Town' just because the vocal hook reminded me of BS' 'Thirteen.'

― calstars, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 01:46 (5 years ago) Permalink

iiiiijjjjj where do you live?

― calstars, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 01:46 (5 years ago) Permalink

Ya know, Evan Dando covered "El Goodo".

― Pleasant Plains, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 01:50 (5 years ago) Permalink

'Thirteen'>>'El Goodo'

― Drooone, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 01:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

fucking love them. i honestly feel sad for anyone who who passes them by.

― Frogman Henry, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 01:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

drooone otm but it doesn't even matter

― ghost rider, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 01:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

overrated Grandpappy Indie (VU notwithstanding); not worthless, but nor are Wishbone Ash, for goodness sake
-- mark s, Wednesday, October 17, 2001 5:00 PM (5 years ago)

"overrated"

― gershy, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 05:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

8 months pass...

overrated Grandpappy Indie (VU notwithstanding); not worthless, but nor are Wishbone Ash, for goodness sake

-- mark s, Wednesday, October 17, 2001 5:00 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark Link

― strgn, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 11:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

ENLIGHTENING

― strgn, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 11:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

uh x-post

― strgn, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 11:29 (5 years ago) Permalink

and 'mod lang' is what needs to get cover treatment

― strgn, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 11:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

"Mod Lang" is quite easy to play, so a cover would be cool.

― whisperineddhurt, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 15:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

and somehow, strangely, Big Star lives on.
http://www.ticketweb.co.uk/user/?region=gb_london&query=detail&interface=shepemp&event=257724
wish i could go ... is this one of them Don't Look Back things? Are they playing Radio City in its entirety?
i'll also take this opportunity to say that Alex Chilton probably has one of the top 5 singing voices in rock and roll history. Serious.

― tylerw, Tuesday, 11 March 2008 15:41 (5 years ago) Permalink

Actually, listening to Radio City and Third, Alex Chilton kind of reminds me of a vanilla Barrett Strong Rude from Lethem's "Forttress of Solitude." Moments on Third definitely sound fucked up enough to come from three-week coke binges.

That being said "Blue Moon" and "Stroke it Noel" totally PWNs! The former is better than "Thirteen" (which, sadly, contains no oboes).

― Drugs A. Money, Wednesday, 12 March 2008 02:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

sweet jesus this band is good. they seem to have such a unique and effortless ear for hook and melody. such a pleasure to listen to.
and on another note, 'i'm in love with a girl' appeared on a shuffle the other day. i was feeling a little absent-minded and it took me about 30 seconds to recall who it was without checking. such a sweet, simple song and yet it feels about 20 years ahead of its time.

― Charlie Howard, Thursday, 8 May 2008 16:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 376 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Don't forget the two one-hit wonders appearing in the coming weeks.

― Roadside Prisunic (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 27 November 2012 17:25 (5 months ago) Permalink

i had to look up chi coltrane, i thought maybe it was like john coltrane's younger brother or something

― tylerw, Tuesday, 27 November 2012 18:55 (5 months ago) Permalink

Was Ed Begley Jr. doing music or stand-up or what?

― Moodles, Tuesday, 27 November 2012 19:08 (5 months ago) Permalink

He was the drummer in the Thamesmen.

― and I scream Fieri Eiffel Tower High (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 27 November 2012 19:12 (5 months ago) Permalink

RIP

― tylerw, Tuesday, 27 November 2012 19:13 (5 months ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

Didn't realize the documentary would be playing here next week until my friend alerted me. (Not having read this thread closely enough, didn't even know it existed.) Anyway, got a ticket and looking forward to it.

― clemenza, Friday, 15 March 2013 21:45 (2 months ago) Permalink

so want to see that

― his girlfriend was all 'ugh and he wears a solar backpack' (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 15 March 2013 21:47 (2 months ago) Permalink

anyone know a good way to track a movie to see when it will come to a certain city? something akin to songkick for films, I guess.

― calstars, Tuesday, 19 March 2013 12:17 (2 months ago) Permalink

They've got a site with a calendar--this may help.

http://www.bigstarstory.com/events.html

― clemenza, Tuesday, 19 March 2013 12:20 (2 months ago) Permalink

The documentary's really great. I think it'll get great reviews, win awards, be a big deal.

The director must have gotten some grief over the Replacements movie, because this time the music's front and center. (I'm going to henceforth view that film as a practice run, a chance to learn about how to interview people.) Lots of time given to specific songs--"September Gurls," "I Am the Cosmos," others. The film really honors Chris Bell's part in the story; it's almost as much a film about him as it is about Chilton. As I've said before, I've never been a Big Star worshipper--I have their albums, love a few songs, but couldn't name more than six or seven. I will spend some time with them now, and listen closer.

Two great comic-relief detours: the inaugural (and last--geez, it was such a good idea) Rock Writers Convention in 1973--I think you see Mike Saunders and his Oscar Gamble-size afro flash by--and the brief section on the Cramps. Lots of good interview footage with Billy Altman, whom I'd never seen before. One surprising omission: Christgau, who was probably the band's highest-profile supporter. I've seen lots of Christgau, so I didn't mind. (Maybe he disliked the Replacements movie so much that he declined this time.)

― clemenza, Sunday, 24 March 2013 04:28 (1 month ago) Permalink

is there any good footage, clemenza? I can sorta imagine/recall from the bio that there could be some that eggleston shot

― schlump, Sunday, 24 March 2013 04:54 (1 month ago) Permalink

That's probably the best stuff: a documentary Eggleston (I'd never heard of him before) made in '74 about local crazies. There's not a whole lot of Big Star footage, but there are some great clips from when Chilton was bouncing around in the late '70s and early '80s. There's one photograph of Chilton's girlfriend during those days--very beautiful.

― clemenza, Sunday, 24 March 2013 05:15 (1 month ago) Permalink

Eggleston doc = "Stranded in Canton" and i believe it's still up on youtube in its entirety.

― Hector. Hector the Booty Inpsector. (will), Sunday, 24 March 2013 13:55 (1 month ago) Permalink

Will be checking that out thanks.

― Johnny Too Borad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 24 March 2013 14:09 (1 month ago) Permalink

There's a brief shot of Robert Fricke with his arm around Jody Stephens, which has no need to be included

― 'Separate Lives', by Phil Collins & Marilyn Manson (PaulTMA), Sunday, 24 March 2013 16:14 (1 month ago) Permalink

Robert Fricke, the five-star dentist in Los Altos, California? Honestly, not sure who that is.

Stranded in Canton, that's it--thanks.

― clemenza, Sunday, 24 March 2013 16:38 (1 month ago) Permalink

looks like there's a soundtrack to the doc coming out too, with "21 unissued tracks"... which seems a little bit astounding, considering that box set was packed with unissued stuff. can't imagine there'll be anything totally amazing, but, i guess i want to hear it!

― tylerw, Wednesday, 27 March 2013 18:02 (1 month ago) Permalink

http://floweringtoilet.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/record-store-day-2013-big-star-nothing.html

― 'Separate Lives', by Phil Collins & Marilyn Manson (PaulTMA), Wednesday, 27 March 2013 18:07 (1 month ago) Permalink

ah ok -- alternate mixes, "movie mixes"! pretty much what i figured.

― tylerw, Wednesday, 27 March 2013 18:09 (1 month ago) Permalink

Did any of the other (ie, not what ended up on Radio City) Dolby Fuckers stuff get a legit release? Or were those tapes erased?

― Vol. 3: The Life & Times of E. "Boom" Carter (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 27 March 2013 18:29 (1 month ago) Permalink

4 weeks pass...

Big Star's Third: An Orchestrated Live Performance of the Legendary Album
Featuring Mike Mills, Jody Stephens, Sharon Van Etten, Kurt Vile, Pete Yorn, Marshall Crenshaw, Pete Yorn, Reeve Carney and many more
Sunday, June 30, 2013
Central Park, MN
7:00 PM – 10:00PM -- FREE EVENT - Arrive Early for guaranteed admission
Artist Website: http://bigstarthird.com/

Big Star's Third is a full performance of the iconic album by an astonishing who's who of rock music featuring famed vocalists including Sharon Van Etten, Kurt Vile, Marshall Crenshaw, Pete Yorn, Reeve Carney (Spiderman: Turn Off The Dark), Jonathan Carney (Mercury Rev) and Beck Stark (Lavender Diamond), supported by an all-star band including Mike Mills (R.E.M.) on bass; Mitch Easter (Lets Active) and Chris Stamey (The dB's) and Ken Stringfellow (The Posies, Big Star) on guitar; Charles Cleaver on keys; Django Haskins (of The Old Ceremony), Brett Harris and Skylar Gudasz on harmony and guitar; and original Big Star member Jody Stephens on drums, all backed with a twenty- piece chamber orchestra including the famed cellist Jane Scarpantoni. In addition, the concert will feature a selection of earlier songs, including the much-hailed “September Gurls” and “In The Streets” (which was used as the theme of the popular TV sitcom “That ‘70s Show, performed by Cheap Trick).

― brb buying poppers w/my employee discount (forksclovetofu), Friday, 26 April 2013 02:57 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

pete yorn and...pete yorn!

― your holiness, we have an official energy drink (Z S), Friday, 26 April 2013 02:58 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

i remember admitting to my high school crush that i liked the pete yorn song that was on the radio at the time. things did not go well.

― your holiness, we have an official energy drink (Z S), Friday, 26 April 2013 02:59 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

good catch on Pete Yorn, I'll ask them to fix that action.

― brb buying poppers w/my employee discount (forksclovetofu), Friday, 26 April 2013 03:00 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

pete yorn...you OWE me now!

― your holiness, we have an official energy drink (Z S), Friday, 26 April 2013 03:01 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

!!!

Reeve Carney (Spiderman: Turn Off The Dark)

!!!

― controversial vegan pregnancy (contenderizer), Friday, 26 April 2013 03:16 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

Today was the 20th anniversary of their first show back together, live in the Hearnes Center parking lot at the University of Missouri.

― pplains, Friday, 26 April 2013 03:17 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

i mean, thank you, friends!

― controversial vegan pregnancy (contenderizer), Friday, 26 April 2013 03:17 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

so...we've never polled "third"?

― brony james (k3vin k.), Friday, 26 April 2013 03:18 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

don't worry, it's "holocaust"

― controversial vegan pregnancy (contenderizer), Friday, 26 April 2013 03:21 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

"nighttime" imho

― brony james (k3vin k.), Friday, 26 April 2013 03:28 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

obviously kangaroo

― your holiness, we have an official energy drink (Z S), Friday, 26 April 2013 05:04 (3 weeks ago) Permalink

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