The Led Zeppelin Plagiarism Compendium

The point of the thread is the egregiousness of their plagiarism. Obviously lots of people like the plagiarized songs, theyve sold a trillion records. I happen not to like them, which puts me in a minority, I guess. The fact that many people think they are "good" doesnt mean they werent ripped off. Which Zep acknowledged after guys like Willie Dixon sued their ass.

besides I mean using this same slippery slope are we gonna say people who don't write their own songs suck too?

well first off, that's not a slippery slope at all because the issue here is the dishonesty in taking other people's material; artists who perform other people's songs are crediting the songwriters and any money they make gets split with the people who wrote the song

signed, a classical singer

Actually, Bill, that quote swings both ways. I like Zep fair enough and I like Howlin' Wolf but I think it's a little late to engage in the polemic about white Englishmen ripping off black American artists. They did, were successful at it, alas, and made some good music at times, even. Imso, 'tis better at this point to encourage people to buy the originals than to disparage their love of Zep or the Stones or whatever.

the point is, does plagiarism matter? is it worth getting worked up about?

um.... YES

I mean talk about stupid questions

led zep basically made it tolerable
No, they watered it down, took all the drama out of it and made it shit.

not a stupid question imo

xp

Then you are stupid. Plagarism sucks.

the plagiarism definitely matters, it's just that like the revelation that this occurred was old even by 1990.

Actually, and I am merely quoting the master, the best way to resolve this dispute is surely champagne and reefer.

there was one debate I read somewhere (newsgroups???) that theorized that Led Zeppelin were subscribing to the old accepted notion amongst blues guitarists that blues was a 'shared' communal music so that ideas could be used collectively and 'borrowed', per se.

Although as one of the respondents correctly pointed out, that doesn't really apply when you're a major recording artist on a major label, rather than being an unsigned blues guitarist gigging at clubs.

Guitar Magazine also did a fairly nice breakdown of Zep's plagiarism in an issue around 1995-1997, although they focused more on one to two specific songs ("Lemon Song" was one).

I'd like to know how many albums Zeppelin sold last year. I bet it's a significant one. The plagiarism issue is still a valid one, though maybe alleviated a little bit by the fact the writers of the songs are getting a cut. Except for the poor Dazed and Confused guy. And Page did a flat out note for note rip of that song, if I remember correctly.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Manet%2C_Edouard_-_Olympia%2C_1863.jpg/300px-Manet%2C_Edouard_-_Olympia%2C_1863.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Tizian_102.jpg/250px-Tizian_102.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Venus_dormida.jpg/250px-Venus_dormida.jpg

"Actually, and I am merely quoting the master, the best way to resolve this dispute is surely champagne and reefer."

Certainly works for me.

plagiarism or not, I can't trick my ears into not liking what I hear when "Dazed and Confused" comes on. there's no contradiction in finding the act itself deplorable while still "liking" the music

loosy goosy, violin bow wielding sloppy guitar playing

LOL you know what the blues really needs to make it exciting is rigid, perfectly exercised technique.

many xps yeah that's what drives me crazy--it's not that plagiarism "doesn't matter," it's that everyone knows this and knew it 20 years ago, the impacted parties are all dead, and yet the opening post of this thread is like some smoking gun shit that is suddenly supposed to do....what? how is this information supposed to impact me?

the solo in "Rock 'n roll" is so sloppy that I gave up trying to learn it cuz I can't make out half of it. but uhm are we really talking about sloppiness as a detractor in blues-based rock 'n roll, cuz if so there's a lot of bands that will need to snap their guitar cases shut.

Q: Are the second and third in this series of pictures "deplorable"?

http://www.albany.edu/~delong/virtualvel/goya_picasso_dali.jpg

(Neither credits Goya)

hey guyz do you think HEre Comes the Hotstepper is a ripoff of Come Together

xxp well I didn't know all this, I find the debate mildly diverting and it's good that it has its own thread on ilm. so this information 'impacts' me for sure.

glad 4 u

hey I was just about to post those paintings! first one is Velazquez though not Goya.

that would be extra deplorable if they had credited goya then

Big payout

well I guess it's only a matter of time before the sister "The Quentin Tarantino Plagiarism Compendium" thread gets started on ILE.

altho that one is fairly more engaging because it's ongoing as he's still making movies

My problem with Zeppelin (besides Robert Plant’s voice) is not so much that they borrowed or stole songs, but that they didn’t even bother to acknowledge those artists who helped shape their sound. The Rolling Stones once refused to appear on a TV show unless Howlin’ Wolf was given a spot, too. In the folk or blues tradition, it’s quite common to “borrow” themes, melodies, etc. — Dylan’s been doing it his whole career. But the guy has always trumpeted his admiration for those who influenced him, naming names in countless interviews for nearly 50 years now. He helped bring a lot of his musical heroes to the public eye and, yes, increase their record sales (whether they actually saw a dime of the profits or not).
LZ basically said: “This is our song. Fuck you.”

hey, and you guys don't have Morbs to deal with in this thread!

xpost

I love Robert Plant's voice. also I don't think anybody here is saying "plagiarism is a-ok".

except for anagram

well I dunno if I would say it was a-ok. and I'm no Led Zep fan. but in general the knowledge that some riff or lyric or something is ripped off is not enough to spoil my enjoyment of it.

Hey, I think they were an awesome-sounding group (again, except for Plant, whose shrieking is more painful to my ears than nails on a chalkboard). But they managed to distinguish themselves as being even bigger twats than nearly every other multiplatinum-selling band. That takes some doing.

Led Zeppelin is just ripped off blues, in fact their music is exactly the same as Blind Willie Johnson. In fact if people weren't so racist you could have put Blind Willie Johnson in front of an arena and it would have had the same effect on the audience as Led Zeppelin because Led Zeppelin did not actually bring anything to the music.

The Bob Dylan Plagiarism Compendium

The Pablo Picasso Plagiarism Compendium

― Hadrian VIII, Thursday, August 19, 2010 12:22 AM Bookmark

The Robert Johnson Plagiarism Compendium

The Miles Davis Plagiarism Compendium

etc

The Stones ones are different though - those aren't ripping off existing songs, it's ripping off the guys who were playing with them.

this is a boring argument/thread in general but I would just like to point out that this is historically inaccurate (see: Staple Singers, tons of others)

but that they didn’t even bother to acknowledge those artists who helped shape their sound.

I don't think this is true at all either fwiw

Page namechecks the author of In My Time of Dying from the stage in How the West Was Won iirc

this is a boring argument/thread in general....

^ then why did you click on it?

I didn't think Moka's post was argumentative or critical - it is interesting to pore over Zep's sources (as I enjoyed doing with this comp: http://www.discogs.com/Various-The-Roots-Of-Led-Zeppelin/release/519398). But when it turned into: RIPOFF ARTISTS! J'ACCUSE then it got bad.

sorry Bill

I said this on some other thread but one of the things that I think gets overstated is that while Zep borrowed/stole liberally (I don't think there's anything at all wrong with this, fwiw) they're stuff rarely actually SOUNDS like the original. the production/arrangement/performance of material was a central aspect of Zeppelin, and claiming that, for example, they're version of Nobody's Fault But Mine bears anything more than a passing resemblance to Bukka's stripped-down, lo-fi original is just ridiculous.

Yeah, that.

^^^^^^^

Totally disagree. I like how you picked that one and not a complete and utter ripoff like Dazed and Confused. And Ive never heard Bukka White's version, but a steal is a steal.

rock must be virtuous

Just because you turn your amps up to 11 and feed Bonham some extra-fine Bolivian prior to recording what was originally a mellow number doesnt justify the plagiarism.

If they had been a real band, they wouldnt have to rip guys off. Has nothing to do with virtue.

you think they're that bad? i'm no fan, mind you, but that's QUITE A CLAIM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsnBT3NofiQ

I like the Stone Roses' "Second Coming" a lot, but "Tears" always puts me off due to its weirdly slavish imitation of the structure and arrangement of "Stairway"

Ok this list totally left off that they lifted "Immigrant Song" from The Osmonds' "Hold Her Tight."

Well that and the theme tune from Get Smart

holy shit how did i not notice that before

Heh I started this thread and it might seem like I hate LZ but I actually love them. They stole from so many artists (mainly Plant and Page) but Bonham and JPJ + production make otherwise thin songs sound massive. It's the credit thing I have an issue with, not the transformation of said songs into something epic.

"Immigrant Song" posts are jokes, I assume? I can't tell who's being serious anymore.

Uh no every time I hear it a few hours later I have Get Smart stuck in my head and it took me years to figure out why

Just in case: "Hold her tight" was 2 years after "Immigrant Song"

Anyway, "Immigrant Song" takes the nick from "Bali Ha'i" South Pacific. True.

Ha, well, it's totally the same rhythm and contour, but the intervals are different (iirc, "Immigrant Song" = up an octave, down a semitone, back up a semitone; "Get Smart" = up a P4, down a semitone, back up a semitone). So it's a cool observation and interesting connection but def not plagiarism. The Osmonds song obv came a couple years after "Immigrant Song". 2xp

Anyway, "Immigrant Song" takes the nick from "Bali Ha'i" South Pacific. True.

Indeed it does. I played that one in the pit only about 680 times, my brain clearly has no concept of where ideas actually come from.

Not plagiarism, but ye Gods does "Thank You" sound like the Small Faces.

Afterglow?

I wasn't thinking in term of an exact track, more of the overall feel of the Small Faces ca. 1968/69, Plant's vocal is very Steve Marriott in places - that verse after the guitar solo!

definitely. also, the hammond.

or whatever sort of organ it is.

A hard organ, I’d wager

"Moon-Face explained about Joe, and how he had gone to the Land of Ice and Snow, where the big white bears lived." -- Enid Blyton (The Enchanted Wood (1939))

and the hot springs blow