Is Bob Dylan overrated?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100816/ennew_afp/entertainmentdenmarkusmusicartdylan_20100816152417

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20100816/capt.photo_1281972199149-1-0.jpg?x=400&y=266&q=85&sig=m1HqIjP297LSUCg1AMo1_Q--
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20100816/capt.photo_1281972199149-1-0.jpg?x=400&y=266&q=85&sig=m1HqIjP297LSUCg1AMo1_Q--
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20100816/capt.photo_1281972199149-1-0.jpg?x=400&y=266&q=85&sig=m1HqIjP297LSUCg1AMo1_Q--http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20100816/capt.photo_1281972199149-1-0.jpg?x=400&y=266&q=85&sig=m1HqIjP297LSUCg1AMo1_Q--
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20100816/capt.photo_1281972199149-1-0.jpg?x=400&y=266&q=85&sig=m1HqIjP297LSUCg1AMo1_Q--http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20100816/capt.photo_1281972199149-1-0.jpg?x=400&y=266&q=85&sig=m1HqIjP297LSUCg1AMo1_Q--

"hmmm...yes...art"

*sips cappuccino*

cups empty imo

overarted

that scott post up there is great, should be in some liner notes somewhere or other

i think dylan was overrated lyrically at times. something like "it's alright ma" is undeniably brilliant, but Blonde on Blonde, though a great record, suffers from too much jester/clown/random dated imagery that works far less often than it should. and though that record was supposed to capture the "thin...wild mercury sound" that he was after, it's ultimately flat and bloodless-sounding when compared to "royal albert hall concert"

i also never understood why people freaked out over Blood on the Tracks, which to me is sort of boring, with the exception of a couple of tracks (esp. you're a big girl now). the oft-maligned Self Portrait is leagues better, i think

that being said, of course he was amazing. so many little-seeming things, like titling a song (positively 4th street) w/no reference whatsoever to the lyrical content, i think was virtually unprecedented in pop music world up until that point? or suddenly and totally changing his trademark singing voice for nashville skyline?

so, i don't think that he's overrated, necessarily, but more that people rate him for the wrong reasons! but same could probably be said about the grateful dead. or the doors, for that matter...

I remember reading that "Boots of Spanish Leather" appeared in the Norton Anthology of American Literature and this seems so appropriate in a way.

Blonde on Blonde, though a great record, suffers from too much jester/clown/random dated imagery that works far less often than it should

Surprisingly I kind of agree with this. BoB used to be my favorite Dylan album - but lately it doesn't quite move me like it used to. It doesn't quite leap out of the stereo with the overwhelming brilliance of something like Freewheelin or Highway 61 - you have to be in the right mood for it. Maybe I've just listened to it too much.

yeah, i mean i like a bunch of songs on blonde on blonde a great deal, but then i'll hear something off of highway 61 and just be delivered those moments where it's truly like whoa, jeepers, no wonder this guy is a legend or whatever

dunno, i love almost everything about Blonde on Blonde -- all the layers of instruments, the sound of his voice. i can see how some of the lyrics could be dated (mainly becuz they were imitated by others for the rest of the 60s), but so much of it is actually pretty straightforward.

that scott post up there is great, should be in some liner notes somewhere or other

thanks for posting that link. great stuff!

BoB is great, obviously, but the band/performances/production just aren't as good as the previous two.

yeah, i like the record lots, but i always feel slightly disappointed by it, production-wise

BoB doesn't have anything i skip over, except maybe the opening track, 'cause i've heard it so much. but i think "Queen Jane Approximately" is the only song from tha trilogy i actively dislike.

yeah, i like the record lots, but i always feel slightly disappointed by it, production-wise

not sure what you don't like, del, but they did a REALLY FINE job with Bob's reissues - sound jumps out o' the speakers, in a good way
xpost

so here's this
http://video.bobdylan.com/desktop.html

Tried watching this last night. It was one of the worst things I've ever seen and I feel embarrassed for everyone involved. The only saving grace is the WTF factor. Like, why on Earth was this made?

to finally bring you to your low point in life. it's all uphill from here!!

Yeah it is definitely the worst project humanity was ever involved in.

Except maybe ww2

Though to be honest, it really got me thinking. Previously I hadn't considered the song being sung from the perspective of a TV shopping network personality.

what would nostormo have had us do in the face of global fascism and bob dylan's diminished cultural presence

Start a poll

God that was the worst video I have ever seen. It was as if Hitler was the director, Richie Incognito did storyboards and Pomplamoose edited.

I had to buy a new keyboard because I vomited all over my computer. The only thing that nauseates me more are these best of 2013 album lists.

I think it is truly amazing and delightful.

Yeah it's ok. I changed my mind lol

I didn't like it until I got to the house show channel, those guys were great. The rom com is pretty good too.

Maron's garage is a lot less drab than I imagined it to be.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/inside-bob-dylans-brilliant-like-a-rolling-stone-video-20131120

I agree with the general proposition there that the video is fantastic, but I'm not sure I agree with this:

"The overall effect is head-spinning but incredibly compelling: the more you surf through the 'Like a Rolling Stone' video, the more the song's contempt seems to be addressed to all of western civilization. By the time you land on a vintage live performance of the actual Bob Dylan, he feels like the only real person in existence."

I get how you could experience it that way, and maybe that was indeed the director's intention, but it seems more like a shared celebration to me. It's such a liberating song to yowl along to, and that's what connects everybody--they're all having fun yowling along. Also, some of the participants aren't actors; I don't think we're supposed to feel contempt for Drew Carey.

i think it's meta in that it implies that Dylan's "message"--and by extension this kind of art--can no longer break through the ocean of shit that is the culture (TV and its successor the Internet) but by putting the song in the mouths of celebrities, it's a pyrrhic best chance of getting listeners too young to have grown up with it to actually get the message. And the celebs get to wink at their own complicity while also showing that they "get it"

I like that interpretation.

xp yeah that's kind of what I got too. In a way it's very self-deprecating -- showing the song's increasing irrelevance today, where we're too media-overloaded to even engage in that level of contemplation of an individual's plight

I like that interpretation.
― clemenza, Sunday, November 24, 2013 3:31 PM

thanks!

I don't know that "Like a Rolling Stone" could ever be irrelevant, though. "You're invisible now"--whatever the context, I think most every kid's going to go through this at one point or another. It's a sobering, important moment in your life.

Maybe, but that presupposes starting from a kind of romantic individualism that seems a little deader today than it was back then

Apparently there is also a 41-CD complete albums box about to hit the shelves, so he's trawling for newbies with deep pockets I guess!

holy shit i only just watched the video

At some point, because of the way the two hip-hop guys are presented, I expect this--meaning the video's director, not Dylan I would hope--will find its way into the Pop Music's Race Problem thread.

That's actually just one guy, Danny Brown, he's pretty well known and that's how he dresses, kind of eccentric guy

this seems like the kind of thing that was made just to be passed around on the net rather than enjoyed.

I wish some old people would get upset over it.

What's the name for the 0 point about which an artist's under or overratedness oscillates?

this seems like the kind of thing that was made just to be passed around on the net rather than enjoyed.

i think it's hugely enjoyable and impressive and i don't know if i have any deep thoughts on it beyond that

Yeah, it's interesting, but I'm not sure what to make of it either - using Like a Rolling Stone as an elegy for old media? A satire on the continuity between the "active" channel-surfer and the ADD continual partial awareness of the web? I mean, the original song was always sort of nihilistic anyway, wasn't it?

"The overall effect is head-spinning but incredibly compelling: the more you surf through the 'Like a Rolling Stone' video, the more the song's contempt seems to be addressed to all of western civilization. By the time you land on a vintage live performance of the actual Bob Dylan, he feels like the only real person in existence."

I get this, feel like the effect is probably intentional - all the other "performances" of the song are intentionally divorced from the content (they aren't really performing the song, the words have just been placed in their mouths) and then you see Bob (not singing, interestingly) and oh yeah here is the dude actually doing his song, "this is what authenticity looks like", that juxtaposition is pretty striking.

Aside from however you interpret the video, the thing that makes it so great for me is the most obvious explanation of all: surprise. I would just assume that anybody making a video for "Like a Rolling Stone" would either show Dylan through the years, or a montage of the same '60s footage you've seen 10 million times already--Vietnam, MLK, moon landing, etc. (which can sometimes still work for me, but most of the time, enough). I would never even have conceived of what this guy did.

I suppose encountering it "in the wild" on the net makes it more enjoyable than reading about it or having brian williams explain it to you.

it seems more like a shared celebration to me. It's such a liberating song to yowl along to, and that's what connects everybody--they're all having fun yowling along. Also, some of the participants aren't actors; I don't think we're supposed to feel contempt for Drew Carey.

Yes, and re. Shakey Mo's post, I'm not sure we're supposed to consider Drew Carey's authenticity either.

I'd say a lot of it comes from one's own personal associations w/Drew Carey, various tv shows etc (as well as one's own personal associations with the relatively vague lyrics of LARS). The strange combination of impressions, strange new feelings. I'm not feeling it, but I think I get it now.