the bbc sherlock series by the dr who 'bloke' and starring tim from the office

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Matt Smith read for Watson and was judged too manic, but when BC was approached to try for Doctor Who, he didn't want to do it because of the merchandising nightmare. This information is available to anyone who reads a newspaper.

duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:28 (six years ago) Permalink

cumberbatch would have made an impeccable doctor imo

progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:30 (six years ago) Permalink

This was a lot of fun to watch, and I hope they make more... Cumberbatch borrows a couple of mannerisms from Brett (quick lift off the chair while sitting in it indian-style, and the quick flash of rictus type of smile) but takes a totally different, and appealing, tack with the character. I also loved the mindfuck where they show the overhead shot of him at his desk, looking like he's just shot up. As intended, it made me think "here we go again, lazy scriptwriters making Holmes use cocaine DURING a case, which he never ever does" and then it turns out to be nicotine patches! Hilarious. They got me.

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:41 (six years ago) Permalink

I had no idea his mum is Wanda Ventham. Blimey.

Michael Jones, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:46 (six years ago) Permalink

BC even turned up as a guest in a friend's wedding photos last week (she's from a luvvie family too). Truly this man gets everywhere.

duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:50 (six years ago) Permalink

Fast forward to 7:14 for nice comic moment and Michael Winner looking like an ass.

State Attorney Foxhart Cubycheck (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:51 (six years ago) Permalink

cumberbatch would have made an impeccable doctor imo

He would have ruined the show for me thanks to his "You have to bite it!" scene in Atonement. In Sherlock it's not as bad because I can't see him raping Martin Freeman.

ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:08 (six years ago) Permalink

I'm sure ILX's slashfic aficionados know where to find exactly what you describe.

duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:15 (six years ago) Permalink

I had no idea his mum is Wanda Ventham. Blimey.

Blimey indeed, I just happnened to see her in The Saint before I left the house, what a babe!

Dr. Who is a bit like Sherlock Holmes in many way.

tom d: he did what he had to do now he is dead (Tom D.), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:15 (six years ago) Permalink

Blimey indeed, I just happnened to see her in The Saint before I left the house, what a babe!

would objectify

unchill english bro (history mayne), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:18 (six years ago) Permalink

Really ejoyed this. Even Martin Freeman was suprisingly decent, but Cumberbatch was amazing in the Sherlock role. Was talking to a friend about Cumberbatch in Doctor Who and we both came to the conclusion he would make a great Master to play off Matt Smith if Steven Moffat ever goes down that route.

Mr.Prologue, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:35 (six years ago) Permalink

would objectify

― unchill english bro (history mayne), 35 minutes ago

^^^^^^^^Genuine laugh out loud at this popping up in blog view. Would seriously love if this caught on as a meme.

Kinda follow Penny Red's views on "oh lawd enough with the Holmes already" but, erm, I <3 Cumberbatch for his Momusian turn in To The Ends Of The Earth. I'm avoiding reading any of the slash (it's already turning up in my LJ stream) until I've seen the thing. Which at my rate of tellyviewing is, erm, never.

That is all.

all your life is channel 13, Sesame Street, what does it mean? (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:57 (six years ago) Permalink

I'm avoiding reading any of the slash (it's already turning up in my LJ stream)

always read this as LJ you-know-who

"It's far from 'loi' you were reared, boy" (darraghmac), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:58 (six years ago) Permalink

Loving it so far - Cumberbatch great, Freeman really good as well (nicely balanced between easy-to-follow everyman & the more actorly damaged army doctor, which is a nice reading of Watson), there's wit & nous in the modernising, cute nods for the fans around the place (Mycroft losing weight, Rache, plenty more I'm missing), really likes London. Perfect Sunday viewing.

And seconded on the drug-haze misdirect - so glad that it didn't just blunder into the world of EDGY Holmes cliché.

tetrahedron of space (woof), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 12:12 (six years ago) Permalink

Another vote for 'would objectify'. LULZ

duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 14:45 (six years ago) Permalink

Thought this was going to be a disaster and was blown away - the bar is set so high in the first ep that the second seems really weak by comparison, tho. LOVED the Mycroft scene in the first ep, fooled me completely.

In the original Study in Scarlet 'Rache' actually IS the German word for revenge! So to have Sherlock lecture Lestrade on how pedestrian that guess is is hilarious.

Nice fan site, tons of interviews etc

Brakhage, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 15:32 (six years ago) Permalink

This information is available to anyone who reads a newspaper

If only I could find one I liked.

there are so few places i can wear my jester costume (Ned Trifle II), Wednesday, 11 August 2010 01:22 (six years ago) Permalink

I got confused and thought Moriarty was the Rupert Graves-replacing copper from the second episode. And was like, "Why is he talking about his underwear?". Anyway.

Thought this was very entertaining indeed, although mugging Jim Carrey Moriarty was almost a last-minute shark jumping moment. Did they resolve how the four cases were connected, or was it just Moriarty fucking around?

Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 13 August 2010 09:03 (six years ago) Permalink

What a bloody awful thread title.

I didn't mind Moriarty really. The way his character was built up and up and kept mysterious that his eventual reveal was always going to be a bit of a slight let down.

Though you know you're getting old when Holmes and Moriarty start looking young.

Born too beguiled (DavidM), Friday, 13 August 2010 09:30 (six years ago) Permalink

i never made the sherlock holmes / dr who connection before

You're kidding

Born too beguiled (DavidM), Friday, 13 August 2010 09:33 (six years ago) Permalink

I liked his mutable, squirming accent, good take on it I thought.

Hide the prickforks (GamalielRatsey), Friday, 13 August 2010 09:34 (six years ago) Permalink

You're kidding

i'm not!!

progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 13 August 2010 09:41 (six years ago) Permalink

Moriarty reminded me of some weird cross between Paul McCartney and Sam Rockwell.

ô_o (Nicole), Friday, 13 August 2010 12:51 (six years ago) Permalink

couldn't make heads or tails of his accent for a while, until it seemed like it settled down on 'irish' of some kind?

pies. (gbx), Friday, 13 August 2010 13:52 (six years ago) Permalink

The actor's from Dublin, so, yeah, 'Irish'.

Moriarty reminded me of some weird cross between Paul McCartney

Ha, he played McCartney in the recent awful Lennon Naked, with former Dr Who Chris Eccleston. It's all connected...

Born too beguiled (DavidM), Friday, 13 August 2010 14:01 (six years ago) Permalink

Huh. Weird.

ô_o (Nicole), Friday, 13 August 2010 14:03 (six years ago) Permalink

LOL, he was quite convincing as Macca in that

tom d: he did what he had to do now he is dead (Tom D.), Friday, 13 August 2010 14:14 (six years ago) Permalink

What a bloody awful thread title.


max, Saturday, 14 August 2010 17:28 (six years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

This information is available to anyone who reads a newspaper.

I read one, it didn’t have anything about Sherlock in it.

Wished they hadn’t done a Moriarty reveal so early, but liked him having already popped up and pranked Holmes, and v much liked the shifting accent making him harder for Holmes to deduce anything from.

bitchmaid (sic), Tuesday, 12 October 2010 23:42 (six years ago) Permalink

NPR coverage:

PBS is airing this on the 24th on "Mystery!".

Jaw dropping, thong dropping monster (kingfish), Friday, 15 October 2010 20:10 (six years ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

This is the first thing on PBS "Masterpiece" that I've enjoyed in ages.

macaroni rascal (polyphonic), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 22:08 (six years ago) Permalink

PBS cuts out like 5-10 minutes from each one though, which is pretty lame.

Loup-Garou G (The Yellow Kid), Thursday, 4 November 2010 03:21 (six years ago) Permalink

i enjoyed this a lot more than i thought i would, considering the granada/jeremy brett series is probably my favorite tv show ever.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 4 November 2010 04:12 (six years ago) Permalink

I feel like these could suffer to lose five minutes! maybe less so the first episode. It'd depend if it was general tightening-up or if it was just whole scenes gone, though.

thomp, Thursday, 4 November 2010 10:56 (six years ago) Permalink

Now that this has been on PBS, my mom told me that she has a crush on Benedict Cumberbatch. File that under information I really did not need to know.

romoing my damn eyes (Nicole), Thursday, 4 November 2010 11:05 (six years ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

watched the first two episodes of this over the weekend. it's pretty fun (and looks cool, lots of interesting camera angles - is this common for bbc series?) but i was groaning when the first episode went into princess bride "battle of wits" territory.

bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Monday, 29 November 2010 16:32 (six years ago) Permalink

I've only watched epsiode 1 (excellent!), consensus on other Holmes thread seems to be 2 is a bit rubbish. Can I skip it and still understand 3?

A brownish area with points (chap), Wednesday, 8 December 2010 02:58 (five years ago) Permalink

Confirming that the 2nd ep is not as good as the 1st. Have not seen the 3rd but it is avail online for free viewing as I understand.

calstars, Wednesday, 8 December 2010 03:01 (five years ago) Permalink

3rd is wonderful, you can skip the 2nd; it's not bad but it does feel very conventional tv mystery show.

balls, Wednesday, 8 December 2010 03:16 (five years ago) Permalink


i'm assuming that it's tity boi, host of the mixtape (sic), Wednesday, 8 December 2010 03:21 (five years ago) Permalink

sic did u get my webmail

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 8 December 2010 03:25 (five years ago) Permalink

All you really need to know from ep 2:

Watson gets a girlfriend

'M', as mentioned in ep 1, is behind the baddies in ep 2 too

buildings with goats on the roof (James Morrison), Wednesday, 8 December 2010 03:35 (five years ago) Permalink

Oh and:

Chinesers have alternate numbering system for markets (which I have never seen before and I'm learning the freaken language).

unintentional boob pic (Autumn Almanac), Wednesday, 8 December 2010 03:57 (five years ago) Permalink

The guy playing Holmes too much of an obnoxious twerp for my liking. Maybe living up to his name (Benedict Cumberbatch).

sam500, Wednesday, 8 December 2010 03:59 (five years ago) Permalink

lmfao Cumberbatch

Princess TamTam, Wednesday, 8 December 2010 04:00 (five years ago) Permalink

It means loads of something e.g. 'oh hai I has baked a cumberbatch of doughnuts, would you like a doughnut'

best autmn alnamac with ten-letter single-word username (Schlafsack), Wednesday, 8 December 2010 04:04 (five years ago) Permalink

TamTam: y but been busy

i'm assuming that it's tity boi, host of the mixtape (sic), Wednesday, 8 December 2010 07:43 (five years ago) Permalink

Boo, Cliffhanger! 3 not as good as 1. I quite like the portrayal of Moriarty (reminds me of Simm's Master), though his various schemes make bugger all sense.

Wonder how Freeman getting Hobbited up will affect series 2.

A brownish area with points (chap), Wednesday, 8 December 2010 17:50 (five years ago) Permalink

The two episodes I've watched have the best use of London locations I've seen for ages. It feels like they actually take place in the city I live in, unlike a lot of things set here.

Also: the planetarium fight was amazing.

A brownish area with points (chap), Wednesday, 8 December 2010 17:53 (five years ago) Permalink

if a man explains something in the forest and no one hears does he make a splain/what is the sound of one man splaining

soref, Tuesday, 5 January 2016 12:44 (ten months ago) Permalink

I remember the old Joan Hickson Marples always had a detectivesplain sequence at the end; and certainly there was always an extensive Jessicasplain at the end of every Murder She Wrote.

I really like the idea above that the reveal scene is the "first part of the villain's punishment". The other function (on TV anyway) is to give your lead actor a bit of monologue scenery to chew, so they don't feel like they're being upstaged by their own story. (Hickson was particularly good at using those scenes to reveal the real self behind her doddery oldperson act).

Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 5 January 2016 13:00 (ten months ago) Permalink

One of the best things about Elementary is that the explanatory monologues at the end of the cases are usually tag-team routines between Holmes and Watson, each of them filling in parts of the puzzle.

the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Tuesday, 5 January 2016 14:17 (ten months ago) Permalink

My favorite part of this episode was the retro Sherlock Vision with newspaper clipping on strings.

For an episode entirely in Sherlock's head, it didn't seem to reveal many of his internal workings. Why was Watson the main character in the first half? What conclusion does he draw from the grave scene -- his theory involved Ricoletti being dead, the grave dream proved it wrong, so why does he wake up and say Moriarty is dead?

remove butt (abanana), Tuesday, 5 January 2016 20:30 (ten months ago) Permalink

it's interesting that in august of 2010, martin freeman was "tim from the office". from that to arthur dent to watson to the greatest little hobbit of them all.

yes and in january of 2016 he is still "tim from the office" and so it shall be forevermore

kinder, Tuesday, 5 January 2016 21:34 (ten months ago) Permalink

this was awful. last year's was awful too... there's a real problem with them doing one big meta story each year when most people watching are mega hungover each time, can't remember what happened the year before

You're so not paying attention that you don't remember that this has previously been three separate episodes each series, that the first was broadcast in July 2010, and the last was two years ago.

What conclusion does he draw from the grave scene -- his theory involved Ricoletti being dead, the grave dream proved it wrong


glandular lansbury (sic), Wednesday, 6 January 2016 02:03 (ten months ago) Permalink

His theory was that Ricoletti used a double and the double was buried in the same grave.
There was only one body in the grave, and the whole scene turned out to be part of his dream.
Therefore he should think that his theory is unproven.

i'll also point out that the method of her fake death was the same as how sherlock survived jumping off the building that was revealed in the last season.

remove butt (abanana), Wednesday, 6 January 2016 05:03 (ten months ago) Permalink

there was no actual reason to think the double was in the grave - that's the point, that he got wildly obsessed with this latest incorrect side-detail he'd pulled out of his arse, dragging Lestrade and Mycroft down into his pit of narcissistic bullshit and pushing Watson & Mary, who care about him in a closer fashion, away.

His subconscious is telling him this behaviour is damaging and inappropriate, the way the Sherlocksplaining scene is his subconscious telling him that he is horrible to women.

Ricoletti was dead, and had to be for the entire premise of the mystery to exist, based on the autopsy.

glandular lansbury (sic), Wednesday, 6 January 2016 14:39 (ten months ago) Permalink

I've been reading some Holmes stories to my daughter and his explanations are part of the formula. They're not about punishing the villain (who often isn't present for the explanation) and there's no reason for them to become problematic when women are involved. It's just what he does. It's a bit odd to discuss modern ideas of agency when a character is doing exactly what he was created to do in the 1800s, especially in a case which is taking place in his head.

I thought the silly suffragette vigilante reveal was clearly signposted as a symptom of Holmes's guilt about how he treats women (doesn't Mrs Hudson protest that she's more than a plot device?). But clumsily done yes.

impossible raver (Re-Make/Re-Model), Wednesday, 6 January 2016 15:09 (ten months ago) Permalink

More nitpicking, wasn't the '"it's never a twin" ho-ho how we laughed' moment at the start entirely out of character? Holmes would never indulge in such evidence-free generalisation.

ledge, Wednesday, 6 January 2016 16:08 (ten months ago) Permalink

Well, I'd rebut that a little, if only because there's tons of meta/deconstruction stuff in the short stories as well (not so much the novels). Take "The Blue Carbuncle", where the crime is pretty piffling, and Holmes lets the culprit go, or "The Yellow Face", where Holmes gets everything wrong. Even "A Scandal in Bohemia", the very first short story, deliberately goes against the formula with the Irene Adler plot.

What you end up with is this ironic situation where the best episodes of A Very Modern Update of Sherlock are the ones that play it straight, while (some of) Doyle's best stories are the weird self-referential ones.

What's lame about the most recent episode isn't Sherlock's mansplaining (who cares, really) but that the (really interesting!) suffragette stuff gets shoved under a bus for all that tedious Holmes/Moriarty legend building.


Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 6 January 2016 16:18 (ten months ago) Permalink

I've only read The Red-Headed League, Silver Blaze and The Speckled Band to my daughter so far so my memory of those self-referential stories is foggy. My point wasn't that Conan Doyle was relentlessly formulaic, only that the word mansplaining is meaningless in the context of Holmes. The whole idea is that nobody sees what he sees and he loves showing off about it so he's never going to let the culprits explain their own plan, whoever they may be.

impossible raver (Re-Make/Re-Model), Wednesday, 6 January 2016 18:32 (ten months ago) Permalink

Er, I don't think anyone was saying anything about the original Conan Doyle stories, rather than this particular modern TV episode, which wasn't based on (except for some small details) any of the original stories. Also, it's not like the writers of any modern Sherlock adaptation are completely ignorant of the social context where it's made. You can't just deflect criticism by saying, "but it was in the Conan Doyle stories too". The original stories also have (obviously, given when the period they were written) loads of casual sexism, such as in "A Case of Identity", where Holmes lets the bad guy get away with his fraud, because he thinks it's better than letting the woman he screwed over know the truth and get upset.

Also, like I said, "mansplaining" isn't some particular type of speaking that you can identify regardless of context. Even if "Sherlock summation" is a formula inspired by the Conan Doyle stories, it can also be mansplaining when it denies women the authority to speak for themselves. And "loves showing off" is also often a part of mansplaining, when men feel like they have to show they're smarter than women, even when the women (as was the case in this episode) are clearly more knowledgable on the subject at hand.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 6 January 2016 19:05 (ten months ago) Permalink

I'm not saying they should recreate Victorian values. I'd be worried if the TV version kept casting aspersions on gypsies. I just think that calling the most fundamental part of Holmes's character mansplaining in this one situation is stupid. He talks that way to everybody. He's not meant to be an empathetic modern dude.

impossible raver (Re-Make/Re-Model), Wednesday, 6 January 2016 19:26 (ten months ago) Permalink

but, since it was all a dream, those women were not real women, but only dream images, so that no women were 'splained to in the making of that scene. it was just Our Hero having the Holmesian equivalent of a wet dream.

a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Wednesday, 6 January 2016 19:28 (ten months ago) Permalink

While having flashes of guilt about how he treats women. It's sort of doing the opposite of what Tuomas says.

impossible raver (Re-Make/Re-Model), Wednesday, 6 January 2016 19:38 (ten months ago) Permalink

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