low expectations for this, found it to be surprisingly enjoyable, although there's plenty of stuff to nitpick about. ep 2 was the weakest, I think, trying to update the 19th century version of the "exotic orient" just came off a bit too silly. and ending the last ep on a cliffhanger, with no word on when the next one will be-- irritating. but everyone above on the greatness of Cumberbatch is otm.
― her breath came in short pants (sciolism), Monday, 9 August 2010 20:51 (4 years ago) Permalink
How come there's only three episodes? That seems crazy.
Benedict Cumberbatch is the name of some Hogwarts reject, I still refuse to believe that that is a real name.
― ô_o (Nicole), Monday, 9 August 2010 20:57 (4 years ago) Permalink
― conrad, Monday, 9 August 2010 21:01 (4 years ago) Permalink
That might be even worse! Although it is pretty close.
― ô_o (Nicole), Monday, 9 August 2010 21:02 (4 years ago) Permalink
Three 1 1/2 hour films is pretty good going - wouldn't have been surprised if they'd just got to make one single episode to start with, tbh (though I think they did an hour-long unscreened pilot which became the first episode). Presume Moffatt and Gatiss a bit busy with Doctor Who stuff as well.
Also, everyone saying Ben Cucumberpatch is awesome is incredibly OTM. I've seen him in other stuff and not been wowed, but he fits this really well.
― ailsa, Monday, 9 August 2010 21:06 (4 years ago) Permalink
Speaking of weird and colonial, three guesses why Cumberbatch is a relatively common name amongst African-Americans. Benedict Cumberbatch is really excellent.
Won't someone respond to my point that Mark Gatiss' Mycroft is like watching Peter Mandelson in panto?
― duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Monday, 9 August 2010 21:11 (4 years ago) Permalink
three guesses why Cumberbatch is a relatively common name amongst African-Americans
This reminds me of thinking that maybe ska pioneer Theophilus Beckford was related to mento singer Stanley Beckford or U-Roy aka Ewart Beckford, until it was pointed out that there was another reason why a lot of Jamaicans are called Beckford. Which was a slight bummer to my joyful contemplation of reggae history.
Think it's about time I watched this Sherlock, too.
― rah rah rah wd smash the oiks (a passing spacecadet), Monday, 9 August 2010 21:26 (4 years ago) Permalink
Didn't Gatiss say he'd based him on Mandelson?
― ailsa, Monday, 9 August 2010 21:37 (4 years ago) Permalink
I have no idea, but it is super-funny. I want to see him sitting on a big throne with a bound volume of fairy tales.
Benedict Cumberbatch has brought his family history up in interviews to basically say o_0. A few years ago I was at a book launch and was introduced to a frightfully posh young man whose surname was Womack. I hadn't realized this was an English name AT ALL until that point, and then the guy told me the singers' surname was no accident because theirs had been a slaving family.
― duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Monday, 9 August 2010 21:47 (4 years ago) Permalink
Just watched the third one, this kind of nonsense is 100% up my street. Not much that I didn't enjoy, there. A few months ago we re-watched all the Jonathan Creeks and this filled the void that left quite nicely. Although J-Creek wouldn't have had any woooo mysteeeerious stuff (left mysterious).
>>SPOILERS>>>>>>>>I totally called Moriarty as a bad guy the first time he appeared, then forgot. WHY would someone faking a painting make half of it something so weird and "obviously" fake? This really confused me. Was the mistake put in there deliberately by Moriarty? But how?>>>>
― Not the real Village People, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 05:39 (4 years ago) Permalink
Btw in the opening shot, my husband was convinced that Sherlock was actually Alan Rickman. He looks and sounds identical there!
― Not the real Village People, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 06:19 (4 years ago) Permalink
Only grouse so far (apart from the fact that ep.2 wasn't as good as the other 2) is I hope they don't just go for lots of murders. One of the things I enjoyed about the originals is the stories about non-lethal puzzles and oddities.
According to Zoe Ball (who, I'm sure, must know) Cumberbatch went up for Dr. Who and Matt Smith went up for Dr. Watson. Someone in casting seems to be doing the right thing anyway.
― i find music confusing and annoying (Ned Trifle II), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:09 (4 years ago) Permalink
They're already setting up Holmes marathons in the USAhttp://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5iVaDQ26TVnBtf3h0iisgyybUFRTQ
― i find music confusing and annoying (Ned Trifle II), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:10 (4 years ago) Permalink
Matt Smith read for Watson and was judged too manic, but when BC was approached to try for Doctor Who, he didn't want to do it because of the merchandising nightmare. This information is available to anyone who reads a newspaper.
― duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:28 (4 years ago) Permalink
cumberbatch would have made an impeccable doctor imo
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:30 (4 years ago) Permalink
This was a lot of fun to watch, and I hope they make more... Cumberbatch borrows a couple of mannerisms from Brett (quick lift off the chair while sitting in it indian-style, and the quick flash of rictus type of smile) but takes a totally different, and appealing, tack with the character. I also loved the mindfuck where they show the overhead shot of him at his desk, looking like he's just shot up. As intended, it made me think "here we go again, lazy scriptwriters making Holmes use cocaine DURING a case, which he never ever does" and then it turns out to be nicotine patches! Hilarious. They got me.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:41 (4 years ago) Permalink
I had no idea his mum is Wanda Ventham. Blimey.
― Michael Jones, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:46 (4 years ago) Permalink
BC even turned up as a guest in a friend's wedding photos last week (she's from a luvvie family too). Truly this man gets everywhere.
― duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:50 (4 years ago) Permalink
Fast forward to 7:14 for nice comic moment and Michael Winner looking like an ass.
― State Attorney Foxhart Cubycheck (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 09:51 (4 years ago) Permalink
He would have ruined the show for me thanks to his "You have to bite it!" scene in Atonement. In Sherlock it's not as bad because I can't see him raping Martin Freeman.
― ô_o (Nicole), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:08 (4 years ago) Permalink
I'm sure ILX's slashfic aficionados know where to find exactly what you describe.
― duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:15 (4 years ago) Permalink
I had no idea his mum is Wanda Ventham. Blimey.
Blimey indeed, I just happnened to see her in The Saint before I left the house, what a babe!
Dr. Who is a bit like Sherlock Holmes in many way.
― tom d: he did what he had to do now he is dead (Tom D.), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:15 (4 years ago) Permalink
― unchill english bro (history mayne), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:18 (4 years ago) Permalink
Really ejoyed this. Even Martin Freeman was suprisingly decent, but Cumberbatch was amazing in the Sherlock role. Was talking to a friend about Cumberbatch in Doctor Who and we both came to the conclusion he would make a great Master to play off Matt Smith if Steven Moffat ever goes down that route.
― Mr.Prologue, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:35 (4 years ago) Permalink
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:55 (4 years ago) Permalink
would objectify― unchill english bro (history mayne), 35 minutes ago
― unchill english bro (history mayne), 35 minutes ago
^^^^^^^^Genuine laugh out loud at this popping up in blog view. Would seriously love if this caught on as a meme.
Kinda follow Penny Red's views on "oh lawd enough with the Holmes already" but, erm, I <3 Cumberbatch for his Momusian turn in To The Ends Of The Earth. I'm avoiding reading any of the slash (it's already turning up in my LJ stream) until I've seen the thing. Which at my rate of tellyviewing is, erm, never.
That is all.
― all your life is channel 13, Sesame Street, what does it mean? (Masonic Boom), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:57 (4 years ago) Permalink
I'm avoiding reading any of the slash (it's already turning up in my LJ stream)
always read this as LJ you-know-who
― "It's far from 'loi' you were reared, boy" (darraghmac), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 11:58 (4 years ago) Permalink
Loving it so far - Cumberbatch great, Freeman really good as well (nicely balanced between easy-to-follow everyman & the more actorly damaged army doctor, which is a nice reading of Watson), there's wit & nous in the modernising, cute nods for the fans around the place (Mycroft losing weight, Rache, plenty more I'm missing), really likes London. Perfect Sunday viewing.
And seconded on the drug-haze misdirect - so glad that it didn't just blunder into the world of EDGY Holmes cliché.
― tetrahedron of space (woof), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 12:12 (4 years ago) Permalink
Another vote for 'would objectify'. LULZ
― duchy of Pornwall (suzy), Tuesday, 10 August 2010 14:45 (4 years ago) Permalink
Thought this was going to be a disaster and was blown away - the bar is set so high in the first ep that the second seems really weak by comparison, tho. LOVED the Mycroft scene in the first ep, fooled me completely.
In the original Study in Scarlet 'Rache' actually IS the German word for revenge! So to have Sherlock lecture Lestrade on how pedestrian that guess is is hilarious.
Nice fan site, tons of interviews etc http://www.sherlocking.org/
― Brakhage, Tuesday, 10 August 2010 15:32 (4 years ago) Permalink
This information is available to anyone who reads a newspaper
If only I could find one I liked.
― there are so few places i can wear my jester costume (Ned Trifle II), Wednesday, 11 August 2010 01:22 (4 years ago) Permalink
I got confused and thought Moriarty was the Rupert Graves-replacing copper from the second episode. And was like, "Why is he talking about his underwear?". Anyway.
Thought this was very entertaining indeed, although mugging Jim Carrey Moriarty was almost a last-minute shark jumping moment. Did they resolve how the four cases were connected, or was it just Moriarty fucking around?
― Chuck_Tatum, Friday, 13 August 2010 09:03 (4 years ago) Permalink
What a bloody awful thread title.
I didn't mind Moriarty really. The way his character was built up and up and kept mysterious that his eventual reveal was always going to be a bit of a slight let down.
Though you know you're getting old when Holmes and Moriarty start looking young.
― Born too beguiled (DavidM), Friday, 13 August 2010 09:30 (4 years ago) Permalink
i never made the sherlock holmes / dr who connection before
― Born too beguiled (DavidM), Friday, 13 August 2010 09:33 (4 years ago) Permalink
I liked his mutable, squirming accent, good take on it I thought.
― Hide the prickforks (GamalielRatsey), Friday, 13 August 2010 09:34 (4 years ago) Permalink
― progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Friday, 13 August 2010 09:41 (4 years ago) Permalink
Moriarty reminded me of some weird cross between Paul McCartney and Sam Rockwell.
― ô_o (Nicole), Friday, 13 August 2010 12:51 (4 years ago) Permalink
couldn't make heads or tails of his accent for a while, until it seemed like it settled down on 'irish' of some kind?
― pies. (gbx), Friday, 13 August 2010 13:52 (4 years ago) Permalink
The actor's from Dublin, so, yeah, 'Irish'.
Moriarty reminded me of some weird cross between Paul McCartney
Ha, he played McCartney in the recent awful Lennon Naked, with former Dr Who Chris Eccleston. It's all connected...
― Born too beguiled (DavidM), Friday, 13 August 2010 14:01 (4 years ago) Permalink
― ô_o (Nicole), Friday, 13 August 2010 14:03 (4 years ago) Permalink
LOL, he was quite convincing as Macca in that
― tom d: he did what he had to do now he is dead (Tom D.), Friday, 13 August 2010 14:14 (4 years ago) Permalink
START YOUR OWN THREAD 'DAVIDM'
― max, Saturday, 14 August 2010 17:28 (4 years ago) Permalink
This information is available to anyone who reads a newspaper.
I read one, it didn’t have anything about Sherlock in it.
Wished they hadn’t done a Moriarty reveal so early, but liked him having already popped up and pranked Holmes, and v much liked the shifting accent making him harder for Holmes to deduce anything from.
― bitchmaid (sic), Tuesday, 12 October 2010 23:42 (4 years ago) Permalink
PBS is airing this on the 24th on "Mystery!".
― Jaw dropping, thong dropping monster (kingfish), Friday, 15 October 2010 20:10 (4 years ago) Permalink
This is the first thing on PBS "Masterpiece" that I've enjoyed in ages.
― macaroni rascal (polyphonic), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 22:08 (4 years ago) Permalink
PBS cuts out like 5-10 minutes from each one though, which is pretty lame.
― Loup-Garou G (The Yellow Kid), Thursday, 4 November 2010 03:21 (4 years ago) Permalink
i enjoyed this a lot more than i thought i would, considering the granada/jeremy brett series is probably my favorite tv show ever.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 4 November 2010 04:12 (4 years ago) Permalink
I feel like these could suffer to lose five minutes! maybe less so the first episode. It'd depend if it was general tightening-up or if it was just whole scenes gone, though.
― thomp, Thursday, 4 November 2010 10:56 (4 years ago) Permalink
Now that this has been on PBS, my mom told me that she has a crush on Benedict Cumberbatch. File that under information I really did not need to know.
― romoing my damn eyes (Nicole), Thursday, 4 November 2010 11:05 (4 years ago) Permalink
watched the first two episodes of this over the weekend. it's pretty fun (and looks cool, lots of interesting camera angles - is this common for bbc series?) but i was groaning when the first episode went into princess bride "battle of wits" territory.
― bows don't kill people, arrows do (Jordan), Monday, 29 November 2010 16:32 (3 years ago) Permalink
Maybe Magnussen typed it all out for her in plaintext ASCII for convenience?
― Neil Nosepicker (Leee), Wednesday, 15 January 2014 16:20 (10 months ago) Permalink
Maybe she keeps it with her at all times so she knows where it is?
Maybe, but why would she have that stuff on file in the first place, if she wants no one to find out about the past? What if John had accidentally found the files and taken a peek?
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 18:20 (10 months ago) Permalink
Ahh, that explains everything, Tuomas! She carries it on her everywhere, and to ensure that John will never peek at it, she sets up the entire Magnussen plot so that after an initial interim of tension, John will take a principled stand and refuse to read her files AND destroy the USB drive FOR her. Ingenious! CIA training!
― Neil Nosepicker (Leee), Wednesday, 15 January 2014 18:44 (10 months ago) Permalink
Do we really need to totally avoid spoilers in this thread? People were talking pretty freely about the previous two episodes as soon as they'd aired. Personally I avoid this thread until I've seen the latest episode, I was kinda assuming everyone does the same. Are there people reading this who haven't yet seen "His Final Vow"?
What did the episode title a refer to, btw? What was the "final vow"? In the previous two the title was dropped in the dialogue, but it was less clear in this one... Or did I miss it?
― Tuomas, Tuesday, January 14, 2014 2:45 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― max, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 20:22 (10 months ago) Permalink
― max, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 20:23 (10 months ago) Permalink
i mean tot otm the other tuomas post, oh well
Also, while I mostly enjoyed this episode, I thought the way they defeated Magnussen felt a bit too easy, since the writers' and the actor had done a nice job in making him a memorably icky villain. For a supposed mastermind, he was pretty stupid in revealing the secret of his secret vaults to Sherlock and Watson, right? I mean, after that he was fair game for anyone who wanted him dead; even if he was sure Sherlock and Watson wouldn't kill him, they could've simply tipåed off someone who would be willing to do it, and based on what Magnussen's actions, there probably wouldn't have been a shortage of candidates.
In fact, I was pretty sure the twist at the end was gonna be that Mycroft's men were actually gonna shoot Magnussen, since it seemed Sherlock wanted to make it clear Mycroft would learn his secret by shouting it out loud. But now I don't quite get it: what was the point of Sherlock shouting it, if it wasn't for Mycroft's benefit?
― Tuomas, Monday, January 13, 2014 2:26 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― max, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 20:24 (10 months ago) Permalink
maybe sherlock shouts to let mycroft know hoping that then mycroft's men would take out magnussen and then when that didn't happen deciding he'd have to do it himself. that's a stretch. seems to me sherlock could've simply let mycroft and his men take them away (surely he would've gotten off, esp since he was working for lady shagwell or whatever) and then, having decided he was going to kill magnussen simply wait to a more opportune time. it's not like sherlock holmes couldn't figure out a way to get away w/ murder. a tidier way to clean it up might have been to have watson stand up to magnussen (toss him over a balcony maybe, something that could easily be swept under a rug ) or if you wanted something w/ punch have mary pop up and finish the job, maybe after they leave and sherlock knows but doesn't care and nobody solves it cuz (as in the original story) so many ppl had a motive. hell you could just have sherlock mention magnussen's vault is his mind palace (ugh) to mary in passing then cut to sherlock reading a paper w/ magnussen's death as the headline and sherlock does a half smile and then o what's this on the telly moriarty is alive somehow.
― balls, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 21:01 (10 months ago) Permalink
the empty vault was symbolic
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Wednesday, 15 January 2014 21:02 (10 months ago) Permalink
why are we in thrall to the redtops. why do we trust them as a source of meaning. they are but an empty room. wake up sheeple
i find it weird that they're doing this mind palace thing since it's a thomas harris thing. you'd think they'd want to dissociate him from popular culture's second most famous sociopath
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Wednesday, 15 January 2014 21:04 (10 months ago) Permalink
kinda hated the mind palace stuff cuz it makes it seem that sherlock isn't esp bright or observant, he's just really good at those memory tournaments. reminds me of movies like phenomenon or something where the guy is suddenly incredibly intelligent and they demonstrate it by showing he knows the capitals of all the countries in africa.
― balls, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 21:05 (10 months ago) Permalink
pop culture's second most famous sociopath surely tom sawyer
― balls, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 21:06 (10 months ago) Permalink
its probably sheldon cooper but i was mainly just writing words in an order i thought sounded good
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Wednesday, 15 January 2014 21:08 (10 months ago) Permalink
didn't realise it was a thos harris thing, just associated it with this:
― Fizzles, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 21:23 (10 months ago) Permalink
that's frances yates's the art of memory for those who don't like clicking unspecified links. follows the persistence of classical methods of mnemonics, particularly that of associating memory with place or abstract architectural structures, through into renaissance magic and thought.
― Fizzles, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 21:28 (10 months ago) Permalink
but yes. memory less appealing than observation. capacious high-recall memory feels like it's special - we can't do it, our memories don't work like that. reasoning from observation feels like we should be able to do it and indeed can do it to a lesser extent.
― Fizzles, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 21:34 (10 months ago) Permalink
this has always bugged me but sherlock isnt really a sociopath is he? i thought sociopaths were supposed to be quite charismatic, very good at mimicking normal human interaction, and so on. i mean you could argue that he IS all those things but i think the point is that with sociopaths they appear in general to be "normal" at all times. sherlock presents as difficult from the start; he seems more autistic than sociopathic.
― max, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 21:37 (10 months ago) Permalink
curious how long 'actually sherlock is a monster!' has been around. the first time i can remember coming across it was mark s here and then it kinda became the norm to have sherlock as clearly understood to be some asshole weirdo instead of just incredibly smart and observant (even the recent sherlock but not really precursors to the current wave had this eg house). seems like previously any revisionism of sherlock usually just focused on drug use or they'd have it turn out that watson was actually the smart one like some remington steele situation.
― balls, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 21:42 (10 months ago) Permalink
Yeah, Sherlock's condition is clearly Asperger's, I'm not sure why the writers keep on repeating the sociopath thing; "high functioning sociopath" is not even a real diagnosis, but "high functioning autist" fits Sherlock perfectly.
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 21:47 (10 months ago) Permalink
doyle vacillates in the stories, like yeah in 'study in scarlet' we encounter him beating up corpses and he doesn't know the order of the planets in the solar system but in a lot of the later ones he's just smart + forbidding
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Wednesday, 15 January 2014 21:49 (10 months ago) Permalink
also worth noting if mb obvious that the axes along which sherlock might present as 'weird' in a late-victorian context are different to those along which he might present as 'weird' in 2010-date
― ♛ LIL UNIT ♛ (thomp), Wednesday, 15 January 2014 21:50 (10 months ago) Permalink
Well, in the Conan Doyle stories Sherlock can be rude and antisocial and "weird", but he almost always shows high moral standards. It's often hinted that he gets more pleasure in solving the crimes than bringing the guilty to justice, but IIRC it's never ever suggested justice and morality wouldn't matter to him a lot. I mean, in "The Final Problem" he's willing to sacrifice his life if that also means the worst criminal he's ever met dies with him. (Unlike in Sherlock, in the short story Moriarty never threatens the lives of his loved ones, so protecting them is not a motivation for his sacrifice, it's purely justice.) So I don't really feel the canon supports this "Sherlock is a monster" revisionism.
Maybe the revisionists feel Sherlock's moralism is just something Conan Doyle was forced to include in the stories because of the era in which he wrote, and that if he had had a free reign he would've made Sherlock more ambiguous and less heroic, so they feel they're revealing the "real" core of the character... But I dunno, morality still feels like a large part of the character to me, it rarely feels superficial or tacked-on. (One of my favourite Sherlock story is "The Yellow Face", which is all about morality, and it's also one of the few cases where Sherlock's deductions actually prove wrong.) So the "heroic" Sherlock is just as real as the "monster" one, even if the latter is more popular now. I guess people just prefer different types of protagonists these days?
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 15 January 2014 22:09 (10 months ago) Permalink
I think morality matters a great deal to this iteration of Sherlock though - it's more like this version tries to paint him as someone who chooses to see himself as a monster, rather than him actually being one.
There's a bit in the Irene Adler episode, where Mycroft tells Watson that Sherlock had the brain of a scientist or a philosopher but chose to be a detective instead, and then asks Watson what that says about Sherlock. we're clearly meant to see him as someone who does have a strong sense of morality and justice, even if he doesn't care about conforming to polite social norms.
― Roz, Thursday, 16 January 2014 04:37 (10 months ago) Permalink
didn't realise it was a thos harris thing, just associated it with this:
― Fizzles, Wednesday, January 15, 2014 9:23 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I don't think it is 'a Harris thing' , it is something that Harris has had Lecter utilise but I think it is a much older means of structuring your memory so that you remember things.
― Stevolende, Thursday, 16 January 2014 11:55 (10 months ago) Permalink
Doesn't Thomas Cromwell use such techniques in Wolf Hall?
― Neil Nosepicker (Leee), Thursday, 16 January 2014 17:28 (10 months ago) Permalink
― Fizzles, Wednesday, January 15, 2014 4:28 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
John Crowley works with these notions in his Aegypt-Love & Sleep-Demonomania trilogy, also
Have that yates book on my nook, one of many things I'm dying to read if I ever stop frittering
― yes, i have seen the documentary (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 16 January 2014 17:38 (10 months ago) Permalink
it's excellent, jon - stop frittering. also groundbreaking if i remember rightly - finding a continuity that wasn't a post-enlightenment retrospect 'progress of thought' narrative, but an examination of the sources and the use made of them, ie magic, and power, and renaissance humanism, was revolutionary.
― Fizzles, Thursday, 16 January 2014 20:57 (10 months ago) Permalink
It's really bugging me where I first heard about those facades, like a few months ago. Wee they in another film or documentary prog on UK telly?
i saw it on Britain's Secret Homes a few months ago. maybe there?
― friend to all animals (anky), Sunday, 2 February 2014 19:59 (9 months ago) Permalink