Radiohead In Not-A-Bunch-Of-Black-Guys Shocker!

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it seems like he is just trying to strengthen his case that radiohead are white guys existing within the spectrum of "guitar rock" (whatever that means) music. i had to re-read that sentence to understand it but i think its a valid observation.

what do people think about the last line, that httt will not have an impact on rock in general. i tend to agree there. actually you could expand httt to radiohead themselves and i would agree as well...

― marcg (marcg), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:53 (twenty years ago) link

I wonder if he means to echo the Eno quote abt 80's techno?

― g--ff c-nn-n (gcannon), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:54 (twenty years ago) link

Christgau perfers alot of stuff to sound like Afropop. A sold third of what he reviews (in the Consumer Guides to the 80s and 90s, at least) seems to be African pop/African folk music.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:55 (twenty years ago) link

g--ff: ding ding ding!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:55 (twenty years ago) link

i don't think he's saying it lacks soul at all, i think he's saying that it has force DESPITE being the opposite of specific features you'd expect xgau to be looking for and celebrating: he goes on straight away to say "like it or not the voice is remarkable"

i mean, that's what the grammar is saying, and that's what the piece as a whole is saying: he's countering the argt that they are merely unfunky white-brit blah blah by saying EVEN GRANTED ALL THIS there is something going on here

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:55 (twenty years ago) link

Even granted Thom Yorke has no soul, there is something going on there -- I don't disagree.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:57 (twenty years ago) link

doesn't this:

"But no matter who's right, if anyone is, the future of Hail to the Thief is unlikely to have much bearing on the future of rock or anything else."

suggest that there is NOTHING going on there?

― marcg (marcg), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:58 (twenty years ago) link

mark agreed although there is still a level of condescension (which i supposed is a reaction against a--mostly imagined at this point--critical endorsement of radiohead's [perceived] pretentsions) in the piece that i doubt would be as evident in a piece about um, well, african music. although christgau always comes off like he's convinced he's smarter than the artists he's reviewing.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:58 (twenty years ago) link

What's with that "Radiohead are no Nirvana range-wise" line? WTF, has he ever listened to either band?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:59 (twenty years ago) link

also he cites the alex ross new yorker piece as "perceptive": so he is not just dissing/dismissing r'head here (ross = v.pro them from an avant-classical perspective)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 18:59 (twenty years ago) link

christgau always comes off like he's convinced he's smarter than the artists he's reviewing.

Indeed, this is the idealized voice of a pretentious college boy.

― Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:00 (twenty years ago) link

marcg not necessarily bcz he is arguing that "future of rock" is a lame trope in the first place

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:01 (twenty years ago) link

still the africa thing really is a nonsequitir unless it means what i think it means. and christgau's pretty far along in his critical career for the idea that compelling music can be made without obvious reference to af-american idioms to be such a revelation!!!

he could be calling h.t.t.t. a world-historical masterpiece but the piece still irks in spots.

(p.s. i've always felt left out of the let's-assume-nirvana's-near-infallibility crowd.)

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:01 (twenty years ago) link

(major x-post)

I think what convinces me he is saying this is that if he is not, why even bring it up? At least lead rock vocalists aspiring to some kind of soul ambitions is a time-honored tradition (if not something I'm really looking for as a criterion) -- but, does anyone care that Thom Yorke doesn't have the "sound of Africa" in his voice? If Christgau is going to compare all of the music he reviews to African music, how am I supposed to ever know what he's talking about (given my admittedly ignorant experience with African music)?

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:01 (twenty years ago) link

I agree with Mark S's interpretation but I still stand by my initial comment. I almost burst into laughter at that.

What's with that "Radiohead are no Nirvana range-wise" line? WTF, has he ever listened to either band?

I think he's saying exactly the opposite of what someone would normally mean with that sentence (ie, Radiohead has a wider musical range than Nirvana).

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:02 (twenty years ago) link

(i am NOT an xgau fan btw and i don't think this is a good piece on r'head especially BUT i think xgau gets too much beaten about for things he's NOT guilty of and somewhat let off for things he often is)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:02 (twenty years ago) link

I'm just waiting for him to come in, leave a cryptic quote and ask that nobody e-mail him.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:05 (twenty years ago) link

Oh right, that makes sense Dan!

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:05 (twenty years ago) link

"While stray suggestions that Franklin's vocal equipment is operatic overstate a power and range dwarfed by Gaye's as well as Yossou N'Dour's, they certainly get at what people love about him--a pained, transported intensity, pure up top with hints of hysterical grit below, that has as little Norway in it as a voice with those qualities can. Fraught and self-involved with no time for jokes, not asexual but otherwise occupied, and never ever common, this is the idealized voice of a pretentious college boy."

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:08 (twenty years ago) link

that was v. poorly done. sorry.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:09 (twenty years ago) link

radiohead's emotional range (gloom, occasionally cranky) isn't nearly as wide ranging as nirvana's, and considering the article is partially about addressing the 'radiohead: the only rock band that matters' claim, it's not off the mark to suggest that 'radiohead are no nirvana range-wise' (maybe when amnesiac goes platinum or if - if - hail to the thief goes platinum)

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:09 (twenty years ago) link

I loved that bit with all the amg adjectives -- like this restrained intellectual gonzoish clowning.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:09 (twenty years ago) link

what does " restrained intellectual gonzoish clowning" mean?

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:10 (twenty years ago) link

the bit with the amg adjectives was fun

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:10 (twenty years ago) link

amateurist buy a dictionary

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:11 (twenty years ago) link

"restrained" seems to contrast with "gonzoish"--is that the point?

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:12 (twenty years ago) link

james i'm not sure that i agree with that abt their emotional range: i agree yorke's voice stands hugely in the way of r'head's wider range being apparent (i have to say that the tv footage of glasto made me suddenly "get it" where i've always before HATED his voice and as a result not been able to listen)

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:13 (twenty years ago) link

sterling in puckish juxtaposition shocka!!

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:13 (twenty years ago) link

(sorry for all the x-posts...)

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:14 (twenty years ago) link

Does Radiohead even deal in emotions? Everything they've released since _OK Computer_ has been an exercise in sound-collage and criticizing them for limited emotional range seems to be missing the point of their music (or at least the point I'm seeing).

(I may be exaggerating for rhetorical effect here.)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:14 (twenty years ago) link

mark please point me towards the happy radiohead tune (note: sounding like u2 /= happy)

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:15 (twenty years ago) link

Jeez, is there a happy Nirvana song?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:15 (twenty years ago) link

i thought the whole nirvana comparison suggested the "safe" kind of inoffensiveness of yorke's voice. a much more bland range. i dunno, i mean at least cobain had the range of "unplugged" to "nevermind". yorke only has "httt" to "kid a (httt)"

― marcg (marcg), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:16 (twenty years ago) link

i meant it seems like a gonzo-crit type thing to do except instead of spinning it out and getting crazier and weirder with it he lets it become a bit absurd and then reels it back in to actually make a point.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:16 (twenty years ago) link

a-ha. thanks.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:17 (twenty years ago) link

''radiohead's emotional range (gloom, occasionally cranky) isn't nearly as wide ranging as nirvana's, and considering the article is partially about addressing the 'radiohead''

I'd say its fairly similar up to OK computer.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:17 (twenty years ago) link

ned: noone can owe that big a debt to the vaselines and not have their peppy moments

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:18 (twenty years ago) link

i think "inoffensive" is a bonkers description of yorke's voice!! (see above re hatred)

james i think "tune" is not to the point here: the sound r'head make if you screen out yorke has a wide sonic and emotional range is what i'm saying

i don't know the names of hardly any of their songs so i can't back this up with a graph sadly

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:19 (twenty years ago) link

Hold on, are we talking 'peppy' or 'happy'?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:20 (twenty years ago) link

There aren't enough graphs in music articles.

― dleone (dleone), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:22 (twenty years ago) link

''i don't know the names of hardly any of their songs so i can't back this up with a graph sadly''

if you do it as contours you get rilly nice shapes ;)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:22 (twenty years ago) link

Xgau is a fule.

― Nick Southall (Nick Southall), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:23 (twenty years ago) link

i only say inoffensive as it seems their music in general is inoffensive (i.e. very placid and pastoral). i don't mean that in a bad way. i think his voice fits the music quite well actually.

― marcg (marcg), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:24 (twenty years ago) link

mark - all I hear is u2 epic fading into cure epic with an occasional jaunt into smiths winsome (neverminding 'creep' - second best bush song ever - and their explorations of the warp catalogue - which ain't exactly where you're gonna find happy lala banana splits)

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:24 (twenty years ago) link

and I like radiohead, but do hurry and write your 'in between days' or 'friday I'm in love' already!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:25 (twenty years ago) link

i think mark is right. yorke's voice imposes a certain opacity/distance that the music on its own doesn't necessarily reflect.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:30 (twenty years ago) link

Well, there are plenty of things that irk me about that review, but that Africa thing really annoys me.

Thom Yorke is a white guy from England. He sings like a white guy from England. He's being himself, basically. Why is that a problem? Why is that not a good thing? Oh, right. White people should be ashamed of their very existence. I forgot about that.

The notion that there is something wrong with the guy because his voice is indicative of his race and background boggles my mind. It's unfair, it's ridiculous, it has nothing to do assessing with the quality of the music on its own terms. It's like saying "I guess this apple is no good because it doesn't have a little Florida in it, like an orange."

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:31 (twenty years ago) link

ok well my almost entire exposure to has been tv broadcasts of live shows (glasto twice, jools/later, plus that totp perf back when), so my sense of them is v.skewed possibly

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:32 (twenty years ago) link

strom thurmond ain't dead after all

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:34 (twenty years ago) link

yeah well matthew since that's not what xgau's saying you can get all unirked i guess

― mark s (mark s), Tuesday, 1 July 2003 19:36 (twenty years ago) link

Skipping 95 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

so! are radiohead still all white guys, then?

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:36 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah but one of them's got a fucked up eye!

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:39 (twenty years ago) link

quick please someone photoshop hootie into a radiohead band photo.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:40 (twenty years ago) link

or dan perry

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:41 (twenty years ago) link

quick please someone photoshop hootie into dan perry

― Cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:44 (twenty years ago) link

and put some bootyflakes on top.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:51 (twenty years ago) link

for the first (and hopefully last) time, dude's name is not hootie. twas a friend of theirs.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:59 (twenty years ago) link

he is hootie in our hearts.

― amateurist (amateurist), Thursday, 3 July 2003 18:59 (twenty years ago) link

and put some bootyflakes on top.

i'd like to see Oolong wear that!

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jul/2003736220157000832004.jpg

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:05 (twenty years ago) link

it's so cute when people defend Buffalo 66!

― M Matos (M Matos), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:08 (twenty years ago) link

:-0

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:14 (twenty years ago) link

C'mon, though, Ben Gazzara? Priceless!

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:19 (twenty years ago) link

or rather, THIS Oolong!

http://www.syberpunk.com/images/oolong/pancake3.jpg

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 3 July 2003 19:23 (twenty years ago) link

Radiohead pays more attention to rhythm than most other rock bands I can think of today, the examples are countless and they definitely know their way around a groove (and for me, the odd-time stuff serves more of a purpose than ye olde prog-rock).

Buffalo 66 is hilarious.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:21 (twenty years ago) link

thanks jaymc ... what show?

[it's so cute when people defend Buffalo 66!]

well i'm glad that's settled ...

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:23 (twenty years ago) link

shit. it won't post the picture of Oolong, the Rabbit What Wears a Panckage on His Head

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:29 (twenty years ago) link

thanx to jordan for parroting xgau

― James Blount (James Blount), Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:44 (twenty years ago) link

Brian: I work with Tangerine Arts Group, who did Phantasia & Wyrd's Sybaritic Shadow Show last November. At least I think you reviewed that, yes?

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 3 July 2003 20:49 (twenty years ago) link

more attention to rhythm does not =! old idm skin grafts

they don't have a rhythm guitarist to save their life

― jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 3 July 2003 21:40 (twenty years ago) link

jaymc: that was me all right.

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Thursday, 3 July 2003 22:42 (twenty years ago) link

I've only skimmed the article, but I thought he was saying that they are more about melody and harmony than rhythm?

Oddly enough, Myxomatosis has elements in common with some African folkloric music in that it basically feels like a triple meter and a duple meter at the same time (two speeds of duple time really, since it has that 2:3 polyrhythm going through it).

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 3 July 2003 23:16 (twenty years ago) link

I've read that Radiohead worship Bitches Brew ...

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Thursday, 3 July 2003 23:26 (twenty years ago) link

... for whatever that's worth.

― brian nemtusak (sanlazaro), Friday, 4 July 2003 00:19 (twenty years ago) link

I can see them appreciating it on a sound level. And a pretension level. I'd like them better if they worshipped In a Silent Way (ha) or better yet Jack Johnson, tho I consider the latter more of a McLaughlin record than a Miles record (which may be ignorant of the latter's arrangements).

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 4 July 2003 02:46 (twenty years ago) link

They do worship In a Silent Way.

― Melissa W (Melissa W), Friday, 4 July 2003 03:49 (twenty years ago) link

shit. it won't post the picture of Oolong, the Rabbit What Wears a Panckage on His Head
http://www.rutgers.edu/~ryates/brett/dragonball/dbshot3.gif
Do you mean this one? (I always thought he was a piglet.)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 5 July 2003 02:48 (twenty years ago) link

Aaargh! It's an anti-Oolong conspiracy!

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 5 July 2003 02:49 (twenty years ago) link

let's try this Oolong:

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Jul/2003751903893294663221.jpg

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Saturday, 5 July 2003 15:27 (twenty years ago) link

hey, that one worked.

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Saturday, 5 July 2003 15:27 (twenty years ago) link

Wonder when they'll get around to worshipping 'You're Under Arrest' - oh, Sting beat them to it!

― dave q, Saturday, 5 July 2003 15:31 (twenty years ago) link

will the next hood album receive this much attention?

― keith (keithmcl), Saturday, 5 July 2003 15:41 (twenty years ago) link

Oh...I thought you meant the Dragonball Z character.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Sunday, 6 July 2003 02:47 (twenty years ago) link

nope -- just as japanese, but not as entertaining as a rabbit with a pancake on his head.

in fact, if you do a GIS, you can find a lovely pic of him with a roll of toilet paper on his head.

this leads me to believe that the japanese are the greatest people on the planet, except for that whole "gang-rape as a popular fixture of hentai anime/porn" thing.

― Kingfish (Kingfish), Sunday, 6 July 2003 06:34 (twenty years ago) link

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