Blackalicious Guilt C/D

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Josh: That may be a good point. Some of the music I love most dearly was clearly meant to "last," and some of the music I love most dearly was very clearly meant to have a very short shelf-life. There's no reason to choose between them, so I don't, and there are no rules, and people can like whatever they want to like, and tudo bem. But I think it's valid to want some emotional connection from an album or a single, and I definitely fall in that camp. If I buy an album, I want to be able to listen to it in a year without cringing or trying desperately to sell it. Which might make me 'rockist,' if I understood what that meant or cared to worry about it.

But I'll concede the point, because otherwise I'd have to get rid of my Sweet and L'Trimm albums. Which would suck, and make me cry.

Matt C., Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

I love you Matt C

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm not even going to pick on the emotional connection thing

(if it does it for you good but difft people might have difft emotional connections!)

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

some of the music I love most dearly was very
clearly meant to have a very short shelf-life

Who defines this and how, though? Do you mean that it was created simply to cash in on a trend (which I gather you don't mind -- I sure don't!), or...?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Sweet and L'Trimm have been "outro pop" favorites for YEARS = staying power?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ned: What I mean is that some music takes itself seriously (which doesn't automatically mean TOO seriously, but can) and other music doesn't. The former is trying to connect with people's hearts and "make some kind of statement" and the latter is trying to connect with people's ears and/or asses and "make some kind of money." Both are cool, and different people will definitely see this differently on a case-by-case basis.

Matt C., Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

It is noble and pure and earnest and neo-soulful which can be very alienating if you are like me. I suppose people feel guilty because they are afraid they are not cynical enough and too susceptible to straightforward feel-good uplifting emotions.

Honda, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

I like it, but I think its ruined by some shit choruses ("we - take - ajourneythroughmusic", oh please) and the bits where it all goes a bit too Brand New Heavies. I think Gab is at his best when he's got someone else on a track with him because he's a pretty characterless MC, but a lot of it is great. Make You Feel That Way in particular is ace. The earnestness of it gets a bit much as well.

I'm not having a very hip-hop year really, so I can't really gauge how it stands up against the rest of the year's releases.

Matt C - what makes you think you can't connect with people's hearts, ears, asses and for that matter their brains and loins ALL AT THE SAME TIME? That's what truly great pop is about.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

Matt DC: I never said that that kind of music didn't exist. It's rare, but all of us have heard it at least once. And if we agreed about what it was, this site wouldn't exist at all.

Matt C., Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

People feel "guilty" about liking Blazing Arrow because it's completely unchallenging, and we'd all like to pretend that challenge is precisely what we're looking for. It's terrifically put together, but it's also a record someone's grandmother would enjoy at a family-reunion barbecue -- a sort of Hallmark card combination of friendly, inviting, happy-summer-day music and fun, "positive" lyrics whose fundamental points aren't particularly different than those in the inspirational pocket quote-books on the supermarket impulse-buy rack. Good feeling radiates off of every inch of it, which on one level makes it impossible not to like: it sort of invites you into its pleasant little yard and gives you a drink and displays its infinite hospitality and good nature. On another level that's precisely why it's going to irritate plenty of people, and precisely why it can't actually blow anyone's mind.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

Which is to say that Honda's spot-on: the guilt is the typical guilt of submitting to straightforward "uplifting" sentiment, just like the guilt inspired by reading a Chicken Soul for the Soul book and being sort of touched by it.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

("Soup" for the Soul, obviously: and also this sort of feeling gets a bit exaggerated when it comes to hip-hop, insofar as the accusation becomes "oh you just like this because it's safe and you're too much of a pussy for the real hard shit.") (Cf something like "oh you just like Wally Lamb cause he's sweet and touching and you're too much of a pussy for the hardcore meaningful literature of Gaddis or Denis Johnson or whoever.")

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

Nabisco: You are a very talented writer with a lot to say. I admire that. I just wish you weren't so committed to a superficial and doctrinaire--and oh-so-fashionable--reading of Blazing Arrow.

Matt C., Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

so can you tell us why it's not that way?

grr if you keep this up I am going to have to buy it

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 18:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

Look at Matt C. pout. It's obvious Nabisco has made some good points ... cutting that close to the truth of things is hardly 'superficial.'

Dare, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

Josh: You really have to hear the record to know what I mean, but the whole thing kind of describes the importance that music, and hip-hop in particular, have had in these guys' lives. Gab had a tough childhood and was starting to get in gang trouble when he started writing his rhymes; Blazing Arrow is, deliriously, an album dizzy with the love of music. There's bitter in the sweet, but I think that we need to have room in our lives for a record where no one's talking about shooting or getting shot; that stuff is played played played out, and the fact that it's primarily bought and listened to by suburban kids and music critics suggests a whole minstrel show thing anyway. But enough. I bought the whole thing, the whole journey...and it's fun, too. That track with Cut Chemist where Gab raps the entire periodic table is the most avant-garde self-referential track since Audio Two's "The Questions."

I'd tell you more, but I'm too busy pouting.

Matt C., Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

Matt: I'm not certain what sort of doctrine enters into that assessment, and if it's "superficial" it's because that's the point -- the record is, at face, a record full of happy laid-back grooves with an MC sort of earnestly talking about persevering through tough times and enjoying good ones. He talks about learning from his family, he talks about feeling "like a student when he's graduating" -- there are a million expressions of basic humanistic goodwill and core "uplifting values." You seem to think that I'm saying that's a bad thing, which I'm not: it is, almost by definition, full of good feeling. My point is that culture programs us to feel "guilty" for just that reason, just as most of us would feel "guilty" for being moved by the overwhelming good will of "Touched by an Angel." That's purely a guilt issue, not a quality issue; I'm offering this as an explanation, not as a doctrine.

And I'm surprised no one's mentioned the sort of "indie guilt" related issue here: surely there's a subgroup of fans of Blazing Arrow who don't enjoy a lot of other hip-hop because of what they perceive as the active bad feeling of other MCs. Such people can enjoy Blazing Arrow and by extension enjoy hip-hop as a form, but that puts them in violation of any "it's about the music" doctrines they might subscribe to: on some level they'll realize that this music resonates powerfully with them largely because this time they can stomach and endorse everything the MC has to say. That's another source of -- well, if not outright "guilt" at least some cognitive dissonance. It's bound to make you feel like either your grandmother or a Christian rock fan, sort of like saying "I suppose that movie was funny but why do they have to use such bad language all the time?"

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying the fact that something is fundamentally sappy, feel-good, sentimental, or earnest, and I don't think those qualities necessarily imply that something can't have plenty of depth as well. Blazing Arrow is well-made, enjoyable, plus all that stuff: it's just really, really pleasant and positive, which is an okay reason to like it without worrying about attendant guilt issues. But those qualities do sometimes keep it from surprising or amazing me.

That said, I think it really is a good record, solidly crafted and frequently quite clever and with a decent amount of emotional depth. If it were a guy and not a record I'd just say "he's good people."

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

It's one of my favourite albums of the year, and I think Make You Feel That Way is an extraordinarily beautiful track. And fuck trying to guess what will stand the test of time, I just like it because it sounds good to me now, and I don't think I can guess what will last anyway. Remember John Peel telling Tony Blackburn in the late '60s that Peel's favourites like Iron Butterfly and It's A Beautiful Day would be universally revered in the future while Blackburn's favourites like Marvin Gaye and Smokey Robinson would be contemptuously forgotten.

And fuck all this macho nonsense about not wanting to admit to liking it because it isn't all hard and aggressive. I like much softer stuff than this! And Nabisco is OTM (thanks to Graham's 'while you were writing...' feature).

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think that we need to have room in our lives for a record
where no one's talking about shooting or getting shot; that stuff is played played played out

Not that I'm one for lyrics per se ;-) but I suspect you'll stop seeing this as a subject for something in a song when people stop killing each other with guns -- aka, the Twelfth of Never.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

Nabisco: Nicely said, well-argued. I disagree, but cool. I think I was reacting against your comparison of the record to that "chicken soup" shit I hate, or maybe to the hallmark card thing; I don't know. But I see where you're coming from now.

I'm not so sure that "challenging" equals "good" all the time, and I certainly hear moments on Blazing Arrow that are very challenging (if just technically, or emotionally out-there), but I agree that some people are into this album because it's not all materialistic or thugged-out; that's a good observation. However, I'm not them. I like it because it resonates with me. No one wants an album their grandmother likes...but my grandmother's not into this record.

She's down with Scarface. Bitch is hardcore.

Matt C., Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

!!!!!!!!

sterl I hope it wasn't the one where they pick on the raver kid's 'plur' sticker. that one made me so mad!!

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

josh -- huh?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

the !!s were for matt

see here sterl

Josh (Josh), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 19:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

" Inside, they dance to the techno beat and are offered ecstasy, a drug that will bring them closer to God. Nick is eager to try it, and Gloria is intrigued with the idea of “prayer in pill form”."

Damn!

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:01 (twenty-one years ago) link

ahh. moral of the story is that getting closer to god makes you freak out.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

So is that going to wind up like the rave kids' answer to the Quincy episode with the punk rockers? I hope so!

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

haha blackalicious suck i liked this record better when it was called MIDNIGHT MARAUDERS

simon trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

but im just guilty about it being my chartered tour from indie rock into hiphop tokenism

simon trife (simon_tr), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

Interesting to see how people define hip-hop by its subject matter more than its overall sound... if the music had been identical but the rapping had been full of guns and bitches or freedom and injustice I wonder what the reaction would've been?

That said, I agree with what Nitsuh's saying... the thing is, I have no qualms whatsoever about listening to unchallenging, uplifting party music (which is what a lot of Blazing Arrow is - although not all of it).

To be perfectly honest, I feel MORE guilty about listening to what is pigeonholed as gangsta rap, because I can never get the idea of people making a lot of money selling an incredibly negative stereotype of black people. Any thoughts?

Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

i feel guilty cz i haven't done anything about the "rockism" FAQ while tom is on holiday (well i found a terrific quote from adorno, but actually connecting it to rockism will take words not wishful thinking)

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

adorno: "pioson rock u r all gay"

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

Don't worry -- the (white) record execs. still rip them off for most of it. Also, they only "represent" beyond themselves to the extent you let them. Also, the stereotype isn't INCREASINGLY negative. Also, your purchasing/listening doesn't change the world -- you do (and better if you know & appreciate more about it). Also, A)

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 20:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

I would direct you all to my review in the village voice on Balckalicious and El-P but, um, I don't know how to. I'm kinda dumb that way. Anyway, I was kinda scared of all that icky positiveness dripping from Blackalicious's album, but I got over it and learned to love some of the best beats I've heard in a while. They are cool in my book.But then I'm a huge fan of the psychedelic in Rap. If I could get all the rappers off of blunts, cough syrup, and brandy and hand them some acid, I would.Then we would see a revolution!!! And no, I don't meann Brandy the singer. I mean the sweet stuff that gives you a headache. And no, I don't mean Brandy the singer. ( gotta watch yur back with all these smart-arses around ) Oh yeah, I also got a lot of hate-mail from El-P fans who thought I was a sorry-ass British Faggot rapper wannabe. When really I'm just a Yankee from Connecticut in the court of public opinion.

Scott Seward, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 21:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh hey. I don't think you're British or gay or anything but man that article made me want to smoke mad crack.

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 21:22 (twenty-one years ago) link

(Not because you didn't like the album but because you expressed a fairly obnoxious and uninformative way of saying so.)

Nate Patrin, Wednesday, 21 August 2002 21:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

jerk

boxcubed (boxcubed), Wednesday, 21 August 2002 21:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

blazing arrow starts off really weak - the title cut is not so grate. i've been waiting for years for somebody to sample the point, and i was thinking it would be better. it gets going after that - there are some nice songs. i like the gil scott-h song, even if he is kind of ridiculous. my favorite song is 'nowhere fast', although i admit i've not made it through the whole album. :-( i don't think i'm in a rap mode right now.

ron (ron), Thursday, 22 August 2002 00:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hi scott! I hope you stick around. I liked yr. review bunches, and I think we had a heated debate here on it, somewhere, because we have heated debates on lots of vv. articles. I did search that one EL-P battle track and it was k-rad though. I also thought yr. rhymes were great, but then I have a weird sense of what constitues good flow. Also, I think acid messes with the linearity of time which might be bad. (whaddya think about the "e" revolution -- and now its cooption by ja rule's "bitches on e"?)

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 22 August 2002 02:05 (twenty-one years ago) link

I liked the rhymes too! I larfed non-stop and so did dr vick

isn't kool keith a big fan of lsd?

Josh (Josh), Thursday, 22 August 2002 02:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think "E" might make you think you have good ideas when yur on it, but creating under the influence could get messy. I could be wrong, but the best dance music that was at least tangentially related to ecstasy was created by people either sober or on whiskey. Acid, while messy, can have residual effects for weeks ( and heightened by pot or hashish ) that enables a user to tap into the drug-induced visions of a hallucinogen for a creative spark that rivals no other. "E" really is a party favor. Acid is something that could make Sonny Bono and William Shatner crawl on hands and knees to the recording studio in order to immortalize their frazzled thoughts for future generations to gape at in awe.What I wouldn't give to see Jay-Z do the same. It is one drug that really did change what you could or couldn't do with music! Kool Keith is probably the one example of someone who doesn't need ANY drug to achieve nirvana.Same for my hero and mentor, Divine Styler.

Scott Seward, Thursday, 22 August 2002 03:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

mark s: if you're having trouble on the rockism, the start of the Onion's AVClub review of the new Sleater-Kinney should provide some inspiration.

Here

Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

Jeez, I've created a monster.... nice thread actually, you've all done well. It's veering away from Gab and Xcel now, but I might as well throw my tuppence in.

I like it. A lot. I could write 10,000 words on it, but let's just say it's the hip hop equivalent of indie songs with recorded solos.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 22 August 2002 12:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

more pertinent q anyway: how can you put Kik Off in at 2 and NOT be embarrased about it?

>:)

bob zemko, Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

Andrew! Perfect! That quote is exactly what I needed for something I'm writing.

nabisco (nabisco), Thursday, 22 August 2002 14:23 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, I saw the opening of that Onion review and wanted to strangle the writer. Fucking fuck, that person must be such fun to hang around with.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 22 August 2002 15:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

The review doesn't work though, because I only buy Sleater Kinney CDs because they're HOT.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 22 August 2002 18:29 (twenty-one years ago) link

"That track with Cut Chemist where Gab raps the entire periodic table"

Yeah, but didn't he just rip that off of Tom Lehrer?

Nick A., Thursday, 22 August 2002 18:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

twelve years pass...

ha so daniel radcliffe

jaymc, Thursday, 30 October 2014 05:08 (nine years ago) link

like sorry to get all Facebook on you guys but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKdV5FvXLuI

jaymc, Thursday, 30 October 2014 05:09 (nine years ago) link

I found lots of copies of the extended Melodica e.p. Cd going for £2ir in a sale in the mid 90s. Loved the copy I bought and played it a couple of times a day. Shame I can't find it now.
Don't think I followed what Blackalicious were at for years afterward until they turned up playing in Galway which I thought was a great gig. Followed them over to the Dublin date and only bought the then current Blazing Arrow in the wake of that.
I've always loved Gab's mellifluous cadence, not heard much else that sounds like that. I'm not massively up on hip hop though. Do have bits I love but they're pretty well known stuff like early Public Enemy, first wave Wu Tang, Epmd, Schoolly D, New Kingdom and the Goats first lp.
I do have Blazing Arrow on my walkman where tracks pop up at random intervals and sound great. But I haven't followed what they've done since.

Stevolende, Thursday, 30 October 2014 09:16 (nine years ago) link

What's with this wave of nice dude actors demonstrating good memories and speed rapping?

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 30 October 2014 13:33 (nine years ago) link

one year passes...

Blackalicious' "Shallow Days" is awesome

skateboards are the new combover (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 November 2015 23:40 (eight years ago) link

otm

brimstead, Thursday, 26 November 2015 00:48 (eight years ago) link


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