Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

Fantastic! Now that's how you do a season finale!

How come the Tardis exploding happened to do so in exact synchronisation with what would have been the times for daylight on earth? Had the earth started orbiting round the Tardis?

Wasn't the TARDIS orbiting the Earth?

And the Doctor's line about the daft old man who stole a magic box made me a little bit sad.

Me too--the whole something old/new/borrowed/blue thing was ace!

i like the Earth orbiting the TARDIS idea better. why didn't things just vanish instantly from existence rather than decay like the Daleks did? also seems odd to re-design the Daleks all shiny and colourful but for this not to matter at all in the finale, just from an aesthetic pov.

hopefully we'll get to see River's first encounter with the Doctor (as opposed to his first encounter with her) next series.

that was great undermining of the marketing-led iDalek design

Loved the HOLY SHIT moment when I realized the Earth was being kept in the game by 'sunlight' from 'sploded Tardis. Well played, Moffat.

I would like to speculate that River is a con artist and she's actually married to the Doctor's biggest enemy, who we haven't met yet. Wondering how many MacGuffins - proto-TARDIS at the top of the stairs, certain aspects of Chez Pond being bigger on the inside, gooey sonic screwdriver - will follow through to the next series.

Post-finale interview with Moffat, by Moffat's kid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs1mIAMTE0c

There was lots I enjoyed about this, but I dunno, I think it ultimately felt a bit flat just because there was a lack of any real peril. Oh, the universe is collapsing...but mostly that's happened already before the start of the episode. Earth is the last bit hanging on...but then it hangs on for another 2000 years while Rory sits outside a box. There just didn't seem to be any real sense of urgency about anything.

That time vortex manipulator was far too convenient as a problem solving tool too.

I LOVED this episode and this season. Way to make all the past series look like complete garbage, Moffatt! Loved all the crazy vortex traveling, the carefully laid "off" moments from various episodes during the the Doctor's trip backwards, Rory being totally redeemed as a character, Amy's great performance throughout, the fez gag, everything.

It doesn't hang on for another 2000 years exactly because the rate of collapse isn't happening in linear time, it seems to be more folding inwards on the exploding-TARDIS event, so instead of a universe we get an Earth where there never was a universe, with a near-complete history the Doctor could hop around in. And then that history gets bits eaten out of it, until we're left with four time travellers, a museum, a Pandorica and an exploding TARDIS as all that's left of time and space: mix well and reboot. I agree there wasn't urgency though, it was going for a slightly different feel I think - kind of more elegiac and entropic - even the dalek was a decayed, half-dead thing.

Though maybe next series will explain more why she is, as the Doctor keeps saying, "special" and we might get to the bottom of it.

Wee red-haired nerdy girl who spends a lot of time talking to herself and inventing friends. Seems pretty special to me, thanks.

it was going for a slightly different feel I think - kind of more elegiac and entropic - even the dalek was a decayed, half-dead thing.

You are right about this. It did give the whole thing a lovely melancholy and made the wedding seem that much more fun.

Still don't get why the Doctor came back to life just because Amy wanted him to.

her parents had existed but disappeared into the crack in time: she focused on remembering them, and they came back (and indeed had always been there)
the doctor had existed but went by choice/duty into the crack in time: she suddenly remembered him, and he came back (and indeed had always been there)

i guess?

I think it's possible that everyone who was there at the Big Bang 2 had to remember him. River obviously did, which is why she walked past the window and jogged Amy's memory. Then Amy remembered, then Rory remembered, then the Doctor appeared. I think.

Honestly, I struggled to understand the timey-wimey goings-on in this ep...i couldnt tell you what happened if you asked me...but for some reason I loved it. That never happens, so hats off to Moff.

Especially the Doctor's heartfelt monologue to sleeping little Pond. Beautiful, heartbreaking...bawled like a babby.

I've been reading a lot of comments at the Guardian etc where people complain that Amy's too stroppy/not a positive role model/sullen/whatever - and I do not get it. Also, the relationship dynamic of Amy's parents (mum especially) makes the way she treats Rory make a bit of sense, suddenly.

i enjoyed it, but i didn't like that it made zero sense (TO ME). it felt like moffat thinking 'i can play RTD's game and be better with it', but for all the moffat tm tricksiness there was too much that seemed nebulous hand-wavy for the more solid tricksiness to have full impact. expectations subconsciously set too high perhaps

i dunno, i kept falling asleep as I was home late from a wedding - but i've felt unengaged by many eps in this series. very empty feeling when i'd got to the end, but i know i enjoyed the spectacle, the dialogue and so on. i esp liked the no stars, VG's starry night tie-in.

yeah, old man, stolen tardis, etc. definitely hit the sweet spot

maybe my ears deceived me, but when Amy jumped over the table at the Tardis reappearing in the banquet hall right before the Doctor opens the door, I could've sworn someone muttered something...

Also what's with Amy getting all "I want a snog in the bushes" with the doctor again at the end? Thought that was wonky idea first time round, but it was understandable as a bit of pre-wedding twitchiness. Post-wedding though? With Rory in the same room? Just awkward, and if they carry it into the next series it could get pretty awful.

for all the moffat tm tricksiness there was too much that seemed nebulous hand-wavy for the more solid tricksiness to have full impact.

Yeah, when they started talking about the Tardis exploding at all points of the universe forever and crashing the Pandorica into it, I did think "right, bollox bollox, whatever" and just stopped caring about how the plot was being moved along.

i esp liked the no stars, VG's starry night tie-in.

Good spot.

Nhex, the muttering was something along the lines of 'he was the stripper at Rory's stag night'.

I think I'm finally ok with this show being the softest of soft sci-fi and, from a suspension of disbelief pov, a whole load of bobbins. Cause that was fantastically entertaining bobbins. The something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue bit... no no i'm fine, just something in my eye :)

xp ahh! thanks

I am getting old and cranky. I thought the something old something new bit sounded clunky. Moff set this up mins earlier with dr musing on the tardis's blueness. And even that felt off

Feels odd to be the -ve voice I have to say

I think the sense-making elements didn't always come over on screen but it did seem to me there was a consistency about the way "erasing from time" worked: rather than rewriting history it was a very crude erasure of cause but not effect: Amy's parents are erased but Amy still exists; the ducks are erased but it's still called a duckpond; Rory is erased but the Silurians were still beaten; finally the Doctor is erased but Earth is still around (in contrast to Turn Left, where history DOES change very quickly for the worse once the Doc is removed from the timeline).

So this seems to suggest erasure works like a cosmic perception filter - the erased stuff is removed from time as long as nobody remembers it, and you need to be special (a time traveller, say) to remember it: the Doctor remembers erased stuff easily enough, River also seems to remember it (the Blue Book, and her remembering the Pandorica adventure at all), Amy obviously is very good at it as she's not only a time-traveller, she absorbed crack information in her sleep.

On an emotional and symbolic level it's all about imaginary friends, fairytales, etc. but I think the reason I found this much more emotionally satisfying than some previous finales is that there DID seem to be a set of rules around the cracks and their effects.

The restoration field/every atom was much more RTD-ish and seemed a little OTT, since it had already been established back in the angels story that the Doctor would need to sacrifice himself to a crack to close it. I thought for a moment the restoration field was going to work on the chunk of shrapnel TARDIS the Doctor had acquired earlier, but no!

It was superb, and I was v suspicious of the previous ep. Such good fun! The pandorica was only supposed to be difficult to get into, to attract the doctor. The whole story was made up to appeal to his sense of adventure via the unknown (that wonderful smile he does whenever he realises something is dangerous or impossible).

Thought the series was uneven but that last ep simply sped along, wasn't afraid of being complicated and zapping in and out of time and was far more enjoyable than any rtd finale. Wasn't afraid of sentiment but dealt with it in a delightfully un-mawkish way. Wonderful.

a massive rewrite and reset switch by any other name smells even worse when written by someone who has a reputation for tight plotting.

i'm def to blame a bit here tho -for just giving up trying to work out if there's any sense here. i may watch again - i have no idea why amy's parents were erased for eg.

The crack swallowed them up!

plz also explain the coalition of baddies pandorica trap plan again. it starts with getting VG to paint space-time coordinates on a pic of the tardis exploding...

Haha I am trying to work that out myself, in a big geeky post in a more specialist forum...

I think it's quite a bad plan tho.

In preparation for my project management course I'm going to write a project proposal, which starts with getting some user acceptance criteria together - getting those sontarans and daleks to agree on any quality assurance criteria is BEYOND crazy i tells ya.

So is the reason that Amy couldn't remember the Daleks and the Cyberking that those events were swallowed by the cracks? And if so have they been restored by Big Bang II?

HOLY FUCKING SHIT TURN ON GLASTONBURY RIGHT NOW

Matt Smith/Orbital Doctor Who theme reboot, easily most Googlable this week...

Matt Smith appears to be performing with Orbital at Glastonbury. Or at least pretending to. Now I still haven't seen yesterday's episode so LALALALALALALALA.

In a word, yes.

Matt Smith is on stage with Orbital at Glastonbury for the version of the Who theme tune. He shoulda been in costume rather than his civvies though.

Oops! We've stumbled upon a real space time event here.

Haha, ace. Wow that crowd looked like they were having fun.

Darn. Missed it. If more than 30 seconds of footage turns up anywhere, let me know!

Liked the last ep. Will concede some doubts about things making sense, but I thought it was a pretty good end to a pretty good series. Maybe not quite as brilliant as I'd told myself a Moffat series would be after RTD, but considering how unsure I was abt Smith and have really come to like him, it all balances out.

Wee red-haired nerdy girl who spends a lot of time talking to herself and inventing friends. Seems pretty special to me, thanks.

Man I haven't much liked Amy, not that I disliked her much either, but maybe I'd better start since this description IS my childhood (too bad I didn't grow up to look like Amy)

PS I did tune in at vaguely the right time but apparently it took 6 minutes to swear at the TV and write that post

Gasp! I need to see this! If anyone finds a clip, plz post? (slow, deep breaths... )

In the minute or so I saw he was basically just standing there.

I'm sure it'll never be made available on the internet!

There's an intro of some length, MS gets to wear the Orbital laser goggles and basically does a Pete Wiggs. It's ace, even if they missed a HUGE opportunity for monstah basslines.

(cries)

Moff set this up mins earlier with dr musing on the tardis's blueness

a) yes this is the point he is programming her to remember AT EXACTLY THE RIGHT MOMENT (ie just a few hours after the collapse/reboot event)*
b) no he set it up SEVEN WEEKS BEFORE, we have been waiting since Flesh And Stone to find out what he said when she was seven that was so important to remember!

*Tom OTM re Final Crisis here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF_R5UJGt-g

OMG THANK YOU!! I just broke out into a complete sweat.

Various ILXors at Glastonbury were sharing their Who at Orbital set-based heart attacks on Twitter, earlier.

I can die now

Has anyone noticed this here yet? Amy Pond -- the girl who doesn’t remember the Doctor, who grows up with her life defined by his absence.... was born in 1989 and first met him in 1996... for one night only, whereupon he vanished again for years.

many xposts:

i enjoyed it, but i didn't like that it made zero sense (TO ME). it felt like moffat thinking 'i can play RTD's game and be better with it', but for all the moffat tm tricksiness there was too much that seemed nebulous hand-wavy for the more solid tricksiness to have full impact. expectations subconsciously set too high perhaps

OTM - this really made me disappointed (my partner is in complete disbelief at all the love for the finale on this thread...). The Doctor shouting at all the baddies last week just didn't feel right (not just the shouting, more that it didn't really make any sense). There were bits I enjoyed - the Bill & Ted stuff, the gags, Rory as plastic guy - but couldn't they have been a bit more imaginative about what might happen if things had been wiped from existence - maybe something more than museum artifacts disappearing. I was on board with the 'big bang' reboot kind of thing, but still not sure exactly what it was inside the Pandorica that was meant to have been magnified or w/ever to re-create all of everything. If it was Amy's memories, then what about all the people/places/things she wouldn't have a clue about? Was it meant to be the air or something inside the Pandorica that contained 'memories' of everything? Why did the Doctor survive? And why on earth does something built as a prison have the ability to fly around?

As you can tell a lot of this went over my head (admittedly I was a bit distracted watching it and didn't hear every line, so please feel free to fill me in about what actually happened). I think the worst thing is that it could have been incredible if they'd kept it a bit simpler.

i'm def to blame a bit here tho -for just giving up trying to work out if there's any sense here