Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

I thought I was pretty good, but was too desperate to get to the end because that was the exciting bit.

Think it's pointing towards the big bad for Christmas, or the next series, that's been rumoured for a while (and I don't think is a very good idea). The voice in the TARDIS definitely (I think) seals it.

Anyone got screen caps of the massed baddie alliance yet? Are there any fun old-who cameos in there?

A big bag of WTF. just the ticket for the last series cliffhanger I spose. Still... WTF?

Supposed to be Drahvins in the shot, but I couldn't see them. Everything else was NuWho, including the Weevils out of Torchwood.

loved it obv but a bit confused by what they've plucked out of Amy's memories and what's real e.g. how did the Doctor know about a thing called the Pandorica ("that's just a fairytale") if it's builders took the name from Amy's memory and it didn't exist for a purpose prior to containing the Doctor? same thing as with the Toclafane i guess.

"Silence will fall" voice a bit like Davros but no cigar.

It feels shorter because it Amy hasn't grown as a character.

With the exception of Donna, that's pretty much what happens every season. Unless you count Rose turning into a stage five clinger.

oh man, they BROUGHT it! finally, they construct a series finale through the series arc that actually really worked... so psyched for next week!

^this

I'd kind of guessed what the pandorica was for but thought it would contain some future doctor. Really psyched to see who the the mastermind behind this, I'm hoping its someone we haven't conceived of yet, would be bummed if it was davros (or the master for that matter); it should be a new villain or a classic who villain unused in the new series. I do feel though, that because none of "the Lodger" has come up yet it has something to do with the shadowy figure in the mystery ship upstairs; that would point towards a CGI Hartnell, certainly looked like that silhouette, or maybe that composite doctor from the picture up thread.

I'm also loving how River Song and the Doctor's timeline do not run parallel, indeed are running in reverse. Could River Song be the reflection of the Doctor, travelling the other way through the universe?

Super excited for next week.

One significant disappointment, the cliff from the dawn of time did not have "We apologise for the inconvenience".

'One significant disappointment, the cliff from the dawn of time did not have "We apologise for the inconvenience".'

Was a clear nod to/rip off of Adams tho.

Great stuff! Felt very classic-serial hero-in-peril, and I like the story, it pulled in a lot from prev episodes. A week feels like a long wait!

Also wondering if River is the doctor that destroys the world? Like the alliance only knows this Doctor, not River yet...some kind of wrongful imprisonment timey wimey thing? Idk the mechanics of how that works...it sounded good when I thought of it.

Disembodied cyberman head was great, very Evil Dead.

http://imgur.com/hZoZ2.jpg

All very good, but I think my favourite part was the big fat blue man at the start making jokes about wanking references.

Wondering if Amy was an Auton, was Rory an Auton, even in Leadworth?

Haven't closed the loop on the clerics yet either, were any of the romans clerics?

River was terrific in this episode, I have really started loving her character.

holy shit! how to wait for next week?

Loved the Doctor as ringmaster in the middle of Stonehenge, broadcasting to all the baddies, leading to the unexpected pay-off of 'let somebody else try first', rather than 'Go home!'

Wondering if Amy was an Auton, was Rory an Auton, even in Leadworth?

Rory was real until he died, all the Romans were built from Amy's house's-psychic-residue-memories so one got some Rory muddled up in there. He didn't fall into the crack and pop out later in time (though this WOULD have been good [but also worth avoiding so it's not doing the same long-long-build story arc as Grant Morrison's various Batman titles]), so there's no reason to close the circle with the clerics - Amy only knew them for a few hours, and has only been in her house for a few minutes since meeting them.

Ow. My brane hurts...

also! there was a photo of Amy & Rory in fancy-dress outfits together, her in policewoman kiss-o-gram stylee, him in a centurion helmet et al. hence the Nestene getting confused and rebuilding him as a centurion, rather than leaving him out of the whole scenario as not fitting.

he shouldn't remember himself dying though, unless future-Amy goes back to the house to litter some of that psychic residue there. maybe the photo was printed on psychic paper, hence also not being now just a photo of Amy and some leaves.

or! they deliberately Bill-&-Ted* the photo there later, once Amy comes back to life, with a new photo taken of her and her spunky Auton boyfriend.

*or newsagent-window

more on Amy's house: the Doctor says "I took you away because your house was weird and had too many rooms - do you ever wonder why your life doesn't make sense?": perhaps setup for more 'the whole WORLD is but a dream in the rippling Mind Of Pond' action next week, but also maybe her house IS the TARDIS, rebuilding itself with a chameleon circuit working but damaged in other ways. notice the blue front door and frame - which were bashed in and broken this week, perhaps a resonance with the damage to the TARDIS door as foreshown in the fragment which the Doctor removed from the crack?

this would obviously clash with the top floor from The Lodger being the TARDIS trying to escape backwards through time and rebuild itself, if they go with that. Lodger should have been a 70s period piece!

so there's no reason to close the circle with the clerics - Amy only knew them for a few hours, and has only been in her house for a few minutes since meeting them.

and of course by the time she was in the house she did not remember them because they had never existed

GOLDWATCH: liked the synthy bass pulse during climactic Rory/Amy scene, instead of portentous strings and punding drums. couldn't even make out Amy's line at cliff-face on three rewinds because of being drowned out by typical screaming orchestra

Sometimes impossible things happen and we call them plotholes

I'm assuming the daleks brought everybody there with their now-perfected time travel technology, and have invented and perfected parallel universe travel (as the cyberman says something about "all universes being destroyed", which seems a bit specific to be done for no reason, therefore must point to them being Cybus Men from the Age of Steel) and the Autons were build before they time travelled (the time period not being notable for the amount of plastic there to animate). Some other stuff though:

How was a cyberbody walking about? Cybermen aren't robots.
When did the Autons perfect replication? Even in Rose when they made Auton Mickey he looked like he was an action figure. And how were they not aware of what they were? They're only plastic animated by a single consciousness, so they consciousness always knows what it's doing.
Having Christopher Ryan playing the Sontaran could have been a good joke about how they all look the same because they're grown in vats, but the credits reveal it's the same character. So of all the Sontarans you could have picked, you choose a specific one WHO HASN'T MET THE DOCTOR? Unless, of course, he gets pucked out of the Sontaran Battle Cruiser AT SOME POINT during The Sontaran Strategem/The Poison Sky?
River ends up in prison in the same timeframe (32nd Century? 33rd?) as after the Earth people have been let off by space whale then? So that must be where he leaves her at the end of their NEXT adventure together then, if their timeframes are in direct opposition, but also means her being in prison isn't that likely: Liz X is so in awe of The Doctor all she has to do is appeal to The Queen and say it was all because The Doctor said it had to happen and she'd get let off. Also means The Doctor isn't "the man" that she kills, because Liz X would be unlikely to forget the face of the woman she put in jail for killing The Doctor... Also some of the dialogue in this years' Weeping Angels one mean this is her last story with Matt Smith?
Time Vortex Manipulators aren't particularly reliable, are they (see Rusty eps passim)? So going to the dawn of time then back to Stonehenge is a bit too risky, no?

I'm not sure this ep was consistent with all the Merlin stuff in Battlefield, especially if it's going all Cartmel Masterplan on us.

Did anybody else notice when River flew the TARDIS it made the sounds backwards? Wonder what that's supposed to represent, or is it just another joke about her being able to fly it properly?

Dear BBC, if you're going to let Karen do interviews then don't let her ruin the dramatic tension in an episode by talking about rehearsals for the next series kthxbi.

(as the cyberman says something about "all universes being destroyed", which seems a bit specific to be done for no reason

this covers for the fact that ALL nu-Who Cybermen are from a parallel universe, and created by NotDavros in a factory instead of evolving from bionic folks upgrading their eyes and hands and whatnot.

How was a cyberbody walking about? Cybermen aren't robots.

Covered in dialogue - it's run out of organic bits and it trying to get some more. Presumably just out of instinct rather than bcz it needs any - nu-Cybermen are just useless bloody robots with human branes in 'em, without the branes actually doing anything.

When did the Autons perfect replication?

in the fyoooooochur, from when the Alliance was formed

Even in Rose when they made Auton Mickey he looked like he was an action figure. And how were they not aware of what they were? They're only plastic animated by a single consciousness, so they consciousness always knows what it's doing.

Covered in dialogue - "perfect deep cover". Also, fyooochur!

Having Christopher Ryan playing the Sontaran could have been a good joke about how they all look the same because they're grown in vats, but the credits reveal it's the same character. So of all the Sontarans you could have picked, you choose a specific one WHO HASN'T MET THE DOCTOR? Unless, of course, he gets pucked out of the Sontaran Battle Cruiser AT SOME POINT during The Sontaran Strategem/The Poison Sky?

If he was plucked, and told of the plan, it gives him motivation to lead the Sontaran forces while he can!

I'm not sure this ep was consistent with all the Merlin stuff in Battlefield, especially if it's going all Cartmel Masterplan on us.

lol consistency with old series!

That Cyberman stuff then isn't consistent with Army of Ghosts/Doomsday or The Next Doctor.

I can handle fyoochur explanation for why the Nestene has actually got good at what it always tried to do, but not as a throwaway to explain a complete change for how a shared consciousness might work.

Sontarans don't need motivation, and actually don't give a fuck about The Doctor - the only thing that matters is the war with the Rutans.

As I said during the Rusty era, consistency with the old series MUST be a thing though otherwise all the 'for the fans' references are pointless.

Dear BBC, if you're going to let Karen do interviews then don't let her ruin the dramatic tension in an episode by talking about rehearsals for the next series kthxbi.

Ah c'mon, you a) don't need to read it, and b) don't need to repost it here. You're saying it's a spoiler you wish you hadn't read but you're still sharing it with us? ffs.

I know it was unlikely anyway but I was holding out hope for her actually being properly not-coming-back dead. Bah.

No, I'm saying the BBC shouldn't have someone doing official BBC interviews that was publicised at length (including on the BBC news website) if you're going to do what you did in an episode.

fwiw I've been steering clear of spoilers myself for weeks now, this is just general public can't avoid it stuff.

I'd managed to avoid it :-/

ugh why did you post that i didn't know about that. damn.

I think it's quite possible that this iteration of Amy, the one the Doctor travelled with because her life didn't make sense, is actually dead. And any future Amy we might see is the woman Amelia was meant to grow up into before the cracks/their creator/the Doctor/the Alliance/whoever started messing with her timeline.

Lots of talk this series about how easily time can be rewritten, so yeah, maybe.

I keep going back to the bit that looked like Modern Amy lying about the whereabouts of Amelia Pond - where she said the Doctor was six months too late - and I think it might not be such a big fat lie.

man i hope i don't have to remember stuff that happened longer than a week ago to appreciate the finale.

yeah, I avoid spoilers v v easily too

That Cyberman stuff then isn't consistent with Army of Ghosts/Doomsday or The Next Doctor.

how so? fucked if I remember anything about where they came from in Next Doctor, but they definitely all came in from the parallel universe in Army Of Ghosts. I figured they'd gotten scattered through time in the Dalek fight.

they should totally run into some original-universe Cybermen and have a fite. then defeat their doppelgangers by offering them some Cadbury Old Gold, the weakness had gotten about that lame by the last old-series episode.

OK, so one totally brilliant reference I caught: pastiche of 'stairway to heaven' music from A Matter of Life and Death in the Roman camp scenes.

By next week, aldo will have found a way to blame the BP oil crisis on Karen Gillan.

Jesus, yeah, pls don't complain about spoilers by spreading the pain. Bah.

I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT SPOILERS, I AM COMPLAINING ABOUT BAD JOURNALISTIC STANDARDS AT THE BEEB. Delete what you like upthread. I am also assuming this means none of you ever watch the 'Next time' section in multi-part episodes (which always undoes the cliffhanger) or will be watching the trailers for The Big Bang on Monday and Tuesday in case it resolves something ahead of the episode. And I don't think I've ever said anything bad about Karen Gillan, although I'll happily put my hand up to Amy-hate.

OK, I PROMISE ON THE THREAD TO ONLY DISCUSS THINGS WHICH HAPPEN ON SCREEN DURING THE EPISODES THEMSELVES.

Cyber-inconsistencies: in The Next Doctor, the Cyber Shades are a result of trying to make Cybermen out of something other than humans, which establishes using human bits is vitally important to Cybermen and they aren't just robots who think they need bits. Army of Ghosts establishes they actually need lots of bits - the heart stops beating when the one who thought she was getting married that they catch midway through conversion dies, and not just the head.

Anyone have an idea about the Greek letters under HELLO SWEETIE? They are:

Theta, Sigma - Phi - Gamma, Upsilon, Delta and Tau.

..and for some reason the Tardis did not 'translate' them.

They were the coordinates the doc followed to get to the Roman camp, I think.

Not so sure: apparently someone has called the Doctor by the name Theta Sigma in some past thingy.

"Theta Sigma" is an old nickname of the Doctor's from his college days! (This is old-series stuff - the person who called him it is, I believe, the one time lord I have NEVER seen anyone suggest River Song might be.)

KER-CHING. Which one is that?

Also: A Matter of Life and Death is an illusion with real-life consequences, prompted by David Niven's post-traumatic brain farts and a denoument where he's having neurosurgery because the brain farts are a portent of something worse. That music is just a monster massive tipoff for me because I was obsessed with that film, age 12.

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Drax - the chance of this character ever appearing in the new series seem to me beyond minimal, he was a tool. So I think theta sigma is just an easter egg for old school and Greek-literate fans.

I AM COMPLAINING ABOUT BAD JOURNALISTIC STANDARDS AT THE BEEB.
Eh? You complained that they ruined the tension by having her talk about next season (ruining it for all of us, too). How is that different from a spoiler?

No, I'm complaining that they allowed it to happen in a BBC interview and publicised it further on the BBC. That's what I'm saying is the wrong bit. That THEY should know better.

I also refuse to believe any of you GENUINELY thought that was the end for her. I will buy a pint for anyone that GENUINELY didn't expect it to be reversed at some point next week.

Anyway, since I am now copping it from the top of the shop I will not post in this thread any further. Have fun.

BOOOOOOOOO.

FWIW if certain info appears on Wiki or on a broadcaster's website, it's pretty much impossible to cocoon ILX from comments relating to that.

how long would an exploding sun take to effect the earth given that the light from it takes 8 minutes to get here?

(am just thinking about the last episode being 50 minutes of black screen that was suggested upthread)