Rolling Teenpop 2007 Thread

And maybe all of this will get Dr. Luke going in a new direction, since his approach is getting way more overbearing, when he already found a better (to me, anyway) way to "evolve" the hard-guitar-crunch sound by playing it down with Paris Hilton in "Nothing in This World." Very very interested to hear what he did with Skye.

While Kraviazuk recanted, it hasn't stopped anyone else from publishing it in fresh news stories. I saw it in the Times piece today. I'd think Lavigne corporate suing a nobody, this particular case, would just bring them more mockery and bad publicity. In comparison with the standing case, she hasn't been maliciously defamed.

In fact, I'd imagine one could say anything one wanted to now about Lavigne and Dr Luke -- true, defamatory or completely made up -- and there wouldn't be a blessed thing they could do about it except make empty threats.

And yet here I've been publicly disparaging Avril on scant evidence or justification forever to no effect. The world's weird -- I'm starting to think that the artists we discuss here don't even READ this thread.

Well, one of the limitations of ILX is that the majority of the messages in the thread don't load. So you miss a lot unless you remember to always page up and hit the display-all cue.

Now, if you want more people to come out to this thread, then the simplest way is to raise it high in Google. The way to do that is to link to it from other places than ILX. But it may be a matter of it simply being to diffuse in nature.

For instance, I get a steady stream of readers -- and sometimes hate mail -- from Googlers coming in off keyword searches that turn up my page in the first page of results. For example, variations on miranda lambert tattoo has worked wonders. Wolfmother Led Zeppelin and Wolfmother Black Sabbath have been absolutely priceless.

Since you don't know what Google's criteria are, there's a bit of an art to it. The foolproof way is to have a dozen or more different sites link to the page.

However, hoping individual artists are spending time doing vanity searches on themselves and burrowing down beneath the top page of results seems unlikely, perhaps directly proportional to how famous they are. The more famous, the more likely some little nerd has been assigned the job, loathe to bring bad news to the great pope.

Even the Dixie Chicks weren't Googling the hate in their documentary. Some flunky in the studio was editing it for them.

I've found the best way to get googlers for Aly and AJ is to talk about them in relationship to their Christianity, so that the following terms come up in a Google search:

ALY, AJ, GOD, CHRISTIANITY, CHRISTIAN, JESUS, CHRIST, ETC.

There are other seamier (but popular) combinations that I'm too much of a gentleman to share with the dignified readers of the thread.

Hey, if you want people to come to your site, put the word dick in every page. Ha-ha.

(Actually, biggest spike, aside from google image searches, was from NIP SLIP)

(Oh wait, I just got your joke!)

I wonder who Leslie is.

Wikipedia to the rescue: "Also, the "Leslie" mentioned in the song is Leslie Patterson, Miley Cyrus' real best friend from Tennessee."...which makes it even better, in my opinion. Been searching for the songwriters on this ("See You Again") for a couple minutes, to no avail. Anybody have any idea?

If by the end of the year I decide this is a single, it will have a chance to make my top 10 of the year, since I think I like it about as much as "I Got Nerve" and that was in my top 10 last year. We'll see I guess.

One quick way to find quick n dirty songwriting credits for songs on the CD -- at least it always works for me on major label product -- is to stick it in the PC and mount it using Windows Media Player. Generally, if you're on-line it will phone home and put the CD cover into display. Mouse over the song title in question -- don't click -- and you'll get the songwriting credits.

Tommy2 linked to an interview in which she said she produced the tracks with a "friend of hers" (might have just been "Meet Miley Cyrus").

Allmusic sez that Kara DioGuardi, Greg Wells, Armato/James (on "Bigger Than Us," my fave from the OST half), Toby Gad (Veronicas, a few others), Matthew Gerard, Robbie Nevil, most Disney/teenpop standard producers, all had a hand in the OST.

"See You Again" was Armato/James (with Miley Cyrus getting a writing credit -- she gets co-writer credit on several "Meet Miley" tracks), so was "East Northumberland High," "Right Here"...Shelly Peiken shows up. Don't know who this "friend" is, but it does sound like they're kind of screwing around in the studio more on "Meet Miley."

Actually, I'm kind of surprised that all these name were responsible for some of the mediocre crap filling up the album(s)! Quality varies wildly.

For some reason, a bunch of pop albums I'm listening to this year (Dragonettes, Kelly Clarkson, Aly + AJ, Jordan Pruitt) just don't seem as solid as albums from last year (Aly + AJ, Meg and Dia, The Veronicas). I don't know if it's me, or the music, but the albums seem far more uneven. I love "Never Again," but can't really quote too many songs from the album off the top of my head. Or "Potential Breakup Song," but nothing else. Meanwhile, I knew most of the Meg & Dia album by heart. What's going on?

Armato/James! The same ones responsible for most of Aly & AJ's album, I take it. I've found that this Disney stable of songwriters does have extremely widely variance in the quality, but Armato/James seem to be the best songwriting team they have in their stable.

Mordy, I think that this year and last year have both been fairly down years for albums. Nothing in 06 or 07 has struck me like Come and Get It or Breakaway or Horse of a Different Color, etc., etc., etc. did in earlier years this decade. I mean I love Miranda Lambert, et al but maybe I'm just becoming a JADED older critic.

I dunno, I don't like the Dragonette album at all, but Kelly's new one is better than Aly and AJ's first one, which was wildly inconsistent, has at least five tracks on it that I flat-out hate. Whereas A&A's new one is totally consistent, great pop album, but doesn't hit has hard as the (few) tracks from <i>Into the Rush</i> that stuck with me. Veronicas was also pretty uneven (so was Pink, for that matter, who showed up on my year-end), and I feel the opposite about M&D -- I like their "Never Again"s (maybe "Monster" and "Indiana") but forget the rest of the album, really. (And "Never Again is probably my fifth or sixth fave track on the new Kelly!) You might dig the new Paramore album, which is kinda growing on me.

I think with teenpop specifically in 2007, Disney is coasting on the successes it had in 2006 and the older stars not nec. associated with Disney are abandoning the field or otherwise growing up (Mandy Moore's new one is actually pretty good for what it is, but it's not really teenpop -- closer to folk and country). Important to note that in 2005, they were between Hilary and Hannah, and the only thing Disney really had going was the Cheetah Girls -- but there was Ashlee and Lindsay and Kelly [late 2004 but felt like 2005] to talk about, not that this thread existed yet. I don't see Disney being able to perpetuate the little bubble they have very much longer, think it's only a matter of time until even the stranglehold they have on kid's music is about as chaotic as the major labels/general biz.

For people whose tastes have always been a bit out of sync with hard genre lines and easy-to-spot recommendations/critic favorites, it's business as usual, but I think that maybe more critics and listeners are going to start diversifying/fragmenting by default. 2006's indie top-whatever lists (to pick an example I'm familiar with, also more lists to choose from) were bizarre because the consensus albums (to me) seemed completely random -- not many obvious choices for a universal pick, and TVOTR certainly didn't make a whole lot of consensus sense, even in exclusively indie circles! Wasn't even as good as their first album, which was comparatively ignored when it came out (the opposite is usually true, big first/breakthrough album, no one cares about the equally good follow-up). (Even the list process itself was changed significantly by corporate-style breakdown, as the Voice poll got about half its normal pool, IIRC.)

So basically what I'm saying is that it's just plain harder to figure out what you "should be" listening to in just about every level of music criticism. This year I've basically been listening at random and seeing what sticks. Maybe my speculation here is all bullshit, but I think it's been kind of a strange (and potentially exciting) year, if not a particularly notable one albumwise for me personally (yet).

If Disney wants to keep their racket up, it's in their best interest to start something sustainable...if they want a parallel universe of pop, they need renewable resources. So obviously they should relaunch the Mickey Mouse Club, now that they have the production/distribution apparatus in place to take each kid solo -- imagine if Justin and Britney launched their careers on a Disney label, with the same production teams etc? The genius behind Hollywood Records is that it's a malleable front for Disney, without seeming dishonest, i.e. you can do your "adult" or controversial material there and no one will associate it with the Disney brand. (Although apparently there was enough outrage over a shortlived Insane Clown Posse album released on Hollywood Recs in the 90s to cause it to be shelved indefinitely. An extreme case, perhaps.)

Hannah Montana doesn't have much life left in it whether they keep selling it or not, because it's dependent on a TV show that kids are going to stick with. When the next show comes along and doesn't produce a cross-promotion opportunity (like if those twin hacks can't SING), Radio Disney is dead in the water. To my knowledge, Disney has never had significant success with any Hollywood or Disney-compilation etc. artists that didn't originate from their original programming.

It's another thing for me too, though. And I wonder if saying this is bound to spark some disagreement. But I feel like last year we were much more open to the boundaries of teenpop, and partially this was because there wasn't a tremendous amount to work with. Meg + Dia isn't really Teenpop (they get play on absolutepunk.net) and there was a lot of dialogue about the Dixie Chicks and even traditionally teenpop; like say Justin Timberlake, who had grown up, we were open to discussing. But, at least I, feel Disneyfied. I feel like there's so much Disneypop to discuss (Hannah Montana, Aly + AJ, HSM I + II) that it feels like a much more closed genre now. And of course there are exceptions - Avril Lavigne for one. But championing or discussing Avril doesn't seem to be doing the same thing that discussing Meg + Dia did last year. There's nothing edgy about liking Avril when everyone is listening to her.
That said, I feel like Taylor Swift is broadening our definition of teenpop, and coincidently (or appropriately) it's my favorite teenpop album of 2007 so far. Probably, thus far, the only one that'll make my end of year list.
Also! Aly + AJ's new album might be more consistent than the last one. But I can sing Chemicals React and Into the Rush right now. I can't sing a single song of the new album.

Well last year, there were a lot more interesting things to be said about Aly and AJ than Justin Timberlake, I think, and I don't remember him getting that much love here (I still don't really care for his last album). I do think the closest to Meg & Dia of this year is Paramore, who haven't gotten a buncha words here, but that's partially because there's a rolling sad emo boys and girls but not Jessica Hopper thread now! Also I doubt most people here have heard the new Paramore yet, haven't thought of anything to say about it yet myself, though I do like it. Best teenpop from this year is coming from hip-hop, really, with kid/teen-rap staples and novelties and the like. And Natasha's only seventeen, up in the club with no ID, so I guess she counts as teenpop. (And Rihanna strikes me as a very adolescent artist and counted as teenpop last year, technically.)

And I think we should discuss how great "Open Toes" is some more...one new trend in pop/teenpop seems to be a BLING corrective, sort of a moderate capitalist critique of excess that makes room for Taco Bell and open-toed shoes and lip gloss and Vans and flip-flops, and gets about as flashy as a diamond anklet, which she probably got from her grandmother or something. Hilary disses Jimmy Choos as too flashy, even though I'm sure she could afford 'em herself. Not to mention Rihanna going to the logical bling EXTREME (kinda like "My Humps" in its own way, but in a way everyone can groove to without it rubbing itself in your face), asking for yachts and all-day massages (if she's still dating the chump from "Unfaithful" he'll probably do it for free!) and her name on your bank account. And bonds and/or buns. (Not to mention, maybe less intentionally weird, Rick Ross bragging that he's hanging out with DICK CHENEY, as in lemme get that OIL MONEY.)

Ha, US record labels to follow Disney into tween market.

"I'd be surprised if labels don't try, but they don't have the multiple platforms," said David Agnew, general manager of Disney Music Group. "Disney Channel has been an incredible incubator and that's something our competitors may never have."

Their only examples are Paula DeAnda and The Naked Brothers Band. So...maybe Rolling 2008.

"Potential Breakup Song" cracks the Top 50 (up to 48) accompanied by a nice review by xhuxk. Wonder how long until Tommy2 starts posting here. (It still sounds like A&A are saying "I'm getting closer to Pearl Jam.")

Posting here because this was the only thread series to namecheck Persephone's Bees. Anyway, I saw them last night in SF and they were pretty great - they're more of a SF rock/pop-art/cabaret act w/twangy guitar than teenpop USA, but they seemed to have discovered some new lode veins of material to mine. Damn sight better than whatever Eurochanteuse du jour being shoved out these days.

Plus the beer was free!

New Girls Aloud single "Sexy! No, No, No..." out September 3rd.

http://www.girlsaloud.co.uk

Really like about 70% of that Persephone's Bees alb, "Nice Day" shoulda been on my top 20-ish singles. Just put it on a summer mix for ALL AGES type crowd.

So just perused Radio Disney and made a couple of observations...Rolling RD for 7/13/07!

Miley dominates with one, two, three...NINE songs. "Potential Breakup" works its way up to 12, while "Do You Believe in Magic" inexplicably re-enters. Well, not inexplicably, I guess. Crazy Frog closest to being OUT of the Top 30 (would be the first time in at least a year, maybe almost two years?) at 27, "Umbrella" on the charts in its debut week at #10. I bet the RD edit gets rid of Jay-Z!!! Hilary still opens as video when you check out the site but nowhere to be seen on the countdown.

Getting some airplay: Jordan McCoy, got some nice bubbleconfessional chops and...uh, lots of strings. "Next Ex Boyfriend" fun but not as nasty or entertaining as Aly and AJ in cruise-mode. IN THE NEW WORLD, FERGIE WILL REIGN. Jordan covers "Big Girls Don't Cry," redundantly.

RD Incubator shocker: The Dollyrots!!!!! Uh, that's kind of weird. Maybe they'll play "Because I'm Awesome" on the station now. Can't keep up with the previous ones, doesn't look like I've missed much but can't really tell either way.

I don't think I ever admitted to ILM that the first acting audition I ever went out for was as the stereotypical bad boyfriend/jock in the Jonas Bros. video "Mandy" almost two years ago. I signed the wrong papers and went into the room where all the ethnic friends were auditioning though.

Any of you who've done reviews of Disney records have contact info? I'm reviewing one of their albums and it hasn't been released yet, so I need a review copy.

Try the Total Assault PR group...you can check their current roster here: http://www.totalassault.com/assets

Email me if you need the PR contact: dmoore1 at gmail dot com

Nope. Not on Total Assault. I need the highschool musical 2 OST.

Ah, those are tough...the stuff through Walt Disney Recs are tough to find (if you do find out who does their promo stuff, let me know). I'd say wait till it leaks, but uh...probably not the wisest thing to do.

I want to know which Lindsay song they shopped to Kelly for the album! Something from RAW.

You're right, Dave:

Earlier this year Clive Davis sent Kelly Clarkson three compositions he wanted her to consider recording. One of those songs, “Black Hole”, was written by Kara DioGuardi, who contributed to “Breakaway.” Clarkson says no one at the label told her that the song had already been released, in 2005, by Lindsay Lohan.

Source.

"Black Hole," good and underrated. But c'mon SECOND TRACK. I figured it might be "Who Loves You" (also, how is "Black Hole" not, like, the equivalent Lindsaywise of what Kelly did on My December? IIRC, RAW was a pretty big flop, too!).

“I’m young, I’m a rookie, I get that. But when you’re sending me Lindsay Lohan covers to sing, why would you think I’d want your opinion?” says Kelly.

I can't tell if this quotes gets Kelly on the War on Lindsay WATCHLIST. Might as well stick her on there near the bottom.

Aly and AJ interview in SF Chronicle

Highlights:

I HEART INCUBUS...OMG, U2?

Today in their manager's offices in Los Angeles, the musical Michalkas are drooling over news of a shipment of Fender guitars for their tour -- Aly will play a Jaguar and AJ will handle a Jazzmaster, copping to their inner rockers. Apart from gospel and the Beach Boys, they grew up listening to the Police and Heart, and now spin U2, Muse and Incubus from their largely identical collections.

"What if you didn't have legs" Part 245:

"While we're complaining about not having the latest bag, there are people out there who aren't being fed, or living in the aftermath of Katrina," Aly says. "So that kind of thing makes you think."

Some thoughts on the revelation that the LiLo track shopped to Kelly was "Black Hole":

What's weird is that now that I know it was "Black Hole," I start to think that, weirdly, Clive was pushing Kelly to make HIS version of the album she ended up making! I mean, "RAW," IIRC, was a pretty big flop (well, enough so that the third or fourth best track could be shopped to Kelly about a year later!) and -- more importantly -- was Lindsay's version of "My December" (made with the "professional songwriters" instead of by herself and her band).

Anyway, I'm pretty tired of all the speculation, but one interesting theory this brings up is that Clive is just pissy that Kelly wouldn't make the angst album on HIS terms. Hell, I claimed Lindsay's album wasn't very good -- didn't have a big single, many of the same complaints that are being leveled at Kelly -- but came around fairly quickly as I listened to it more (also important was a humor discussion from last year, when I figured out how to enjoy some of the intentional humor in tracks like "Fastlane" and "Who Loves You" that lightens up the album considerably -- like the "How I Feel" that doesn't totally suck. Also "universe of missing stuff" is a much better semi-howler-that's-actually-kinda-cool than the worst worst worst Kelly lyric ever: "I touch the flame again because I'm a curious cat." SKIP!).

"Black Hole" more like my tenth favorite on Raw; co-written by Louise Goffin (a pop singer herself, Carole King's daughter, Greg Wells' wife).

Made Persephone's Bees' "Muzika Dlya Fil'ma" my song of the day last January 13, though didn't have much to say about it: "An eastern melancholy adorned with rockabilly reverb on the guitar. Singer Angelina Moysov goes from melodrama to lounge stillness then back to melodrama then back to stillness, exhaling and inhaling."

FYI- The Gemz have returned as a quartet. I eagerly anticipate the album covers.

There's a documentary on Channel 4 (UK) tonight about the girls in Prussian Blue. >:-0

Fortunately my TV is broken at the moment.

Apparently, this is out on Sept. 22nd and it's rumoured to have leaked, pop fans.

http://i8.tinypic.com/5225x6e.jpg

My Persephone's Bees mini-review in Harp last year:

http://harpmagazine.com/reviews/cd_reviews/detail.cfm?article_id=4649

Junk e-mail just in:

"From Amazon.com: Catch a Rising Star in Our Tween Music Event

Dear Amazon.com Customer,
As someone who has shopped for kid- or tween-oriented entertainment, you might like to check out our Tween Pop Event, which features videos, celebrity trivia, and CDs for kids, tweens and teens under $10."

What are 'BFFs' and 'frienemies'?

The rumors of Kylie's leak have not been greatly exaggerated. Sounds great. (Can't imagine these tracks are actually finished yet, though?)

So, "Hey There Delilah" jumps to number one on the Hot 100, a song I hate but at least it's a different type of song than your typical number one. The first emo song to hit number one? Depends if "Girlfriend" counts or not. Anyways, I thought this tidbit from BB.com was interesting/relevant: ""Delilah" is also Hollywood Records' first-ever No. 1 on the Hot 100." So congrats to the Diz.

Elsewhere, "Potential Break Up Song" leaps to number 23 on the charts, fairly impressive. Frank (or anybody else), is it getting any airplay? Their album only debuts at #15 though (thanks in part to my purchase!), a bit disappointing to me given that Hannah Montana is still at #3. KC is holding at #5.

GO ELLIOTT YAMIN!

So basically these guys listened to "Reno Dakota" by Magnetic Fields and decided they could do it in a really sucky version and get it to #1? (I'd never heard this song til now; it's terrible.)

Did you happen to notice that FeFe Dobson co-wrote the song Start All Over on the Meet Miley Cyrus CD? Yes… it’s true!

Final track on Mostly Wanted, limited supply and copies are already flying off the shelves.