Just about to start reading this book, which looks like it addresses whats being discussed here, rather than an out-of-date popular image of suburbia
http://www.amazon.com/Suburban-History-Historical-Studies-America/dp/0226456633/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276030940&sr=8-1
― cherry blossom, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:09 (thirteen years ago) link
I should add that they like Trader Joe's and triple-cream brie, though, so I will be filling a cooler with strange and wondrous foods next weekend and sending it home with my country people after their visit to the great grey city.
― the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:10 (thirteen years ago) link
Wow this thread is fucking infuriating
― Adolf Hipster (jjjusten), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:16 (thirteen years ago) link
xxp: Looks interesting.
iatee: Never mind me. The guy I had that convo with is a certifiable dumbass in general, and I'm kinda taking my angst about him out on you by proxy, which is unfair.
― donk quixote (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:19 (thirteen years ago) link
y'all may be right. I always interpreted rural disdain for city life as reactionary, though. It just feels different in tone.
― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:21 (thirteen years ago) link
I don't even know where to start, but it's tough to see some generally smart ilx peeps pulling a "why don't black people ever want to rock" level of analysis here
― Adolf Hipster (jjjusten), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:22 (thirteen years ago) link
Found it kind of weird that I'd just bought that book, and then not only does the suburb thread get revived, but talking about the same thing!
― cherry blossom, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:22 (thirteen years ago) link
they both boil down to one group not being able to grasp that the other group has different priorities, values, and preferences.
― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:22 (thirteen years ago) link
The expression of it is kinda reactionary but they're not really sorry they don't live in a city, ime.
― the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:23 (thirteen years ago) link
granny otm
― donk quixote (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:24 (thirteen years ago) link
Like I picture city folk coming to a charming rural town and annoying the residents with their complaints about lack of this and that and their high-strungedness, and that causing the "ugh city folk" feeling. Whereas city folk don't get intruded on by country cousins on their turf the same way?
― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:26 (thirteen years ago) link
City fork who would do that are d-bags who deserve whatever they get imo. If you are going to go out to the country, you should be prepared to enjoy it for what it is.
― donk quixote (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:31 (thirteen years ago) link
Whereas city folk don't get intruded on by country cousins on their turf the same way?
Have you tried to walk through Grand Central lately?? Jesus. Also I have survived over a decade of my parents secretly and not so secretly feeling sorry for me that I don't live somewhere "nicer" or bigger or quieter or in a neighborhood where there are fewer crazy/drunk/high/seemingly unemployed-looking people walking around and standing on the corners. That last category may or may not include a subtext about minorities; I don't encourage that conversation.
― the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:31 (thirteen years ago) link
I do have to say though, that the last time I encountered someone in a city who was rather conspicuously from the country, he addressed me as "Hey, nigger faggot."
― donk quixote (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:32 (thirteen years ago) link
Basically they'd like me to be someplace where none of the visible population is ever lower than middle-middle class regardless of race (best possible interpretation) and the stores are full of pretty things you want to buy to make your life prettier. I understand why they want this for me but it's a fast route to misery afaic.
― the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:34 (thirteen years ago) link
Rev, I am tempted to joke, "sorry about my dad," but not even my dad would say something that fucking evilly hateful to someone's face.
― breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link
everyone watches youtube
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link
what I dislike about suburbs isn't really cultural. I dislike that the american suburb is structured in a way that allows people to blissfully ignore their externalities - the fact that people believe that a car and a large house are their god given rights as an american citizen. suburbs should be EXPENSIVE - they should be a luxury because in an environmental and social sense, they are.
― iatee, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:36 (thirteen years ago) link
My dad is straight country, though. He told me he was surprised people on the Tube in London were acting "weird" around him when he started cleaning his fingernails. What you have to know about my dad is he cleans his nails with the 5" pocket hunting knife that is on him at all times.
― breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:37 (thirteen years ago) link
Last thing re city vs country: Oh and the buildings in a "nice" part of the city should be historical and architecturally attractive and vermin-free and feel like you're not actually in the city until you go outside. But nothing should intrude on your home life once you shut your door. Which basically explains why they live somewhere that you can't hit your neighbor's house with a rock while standing on your own porch.
Also: You have a porch.
― the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:37 (thirteen years ago) link
Abbott, you are straight cracking me up.
― the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:38 (thirteen years ago) link
How did he get a knife on the plane, can you check that shit?
So you are obv talking about outer ring suburbs here, right iatee?
― Adolf Hipster (jjjusten), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:38 (thirteen years ago) link
Laurel, this was in 1999.
― breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:39 (thirteen years ago) link
Lauren, I guess I don't see that as "looking down on", it doesn't seem based on snobbery? The rural&suburb-bashing city folk act like those people just haven't figured out how to be able to live in the city, or couldn't make it there once they did even though they obv must desperately want to.
― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:39 (thirteen years ago) link
whoa xposts
meant Laurel obv, sorry!
― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:40 (thirteen years ago) link
It's based on the "master of own domain" idea that iatee referred to up there. The American dream, doncha know. If you can't have that, they just feel gently sorry for you...UNLESS you have enough money to live as insulated from the discomforts of a city as if you WEREN'T in a city.
― the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:41 (thirteen years ago) link
I've reached the conclusion that I'll never buy a house if it doesn't have a good-sized porch I can kick it on. Porches are very important to me, for some reason.
what I dislike about suburbs isn't really cultural. I dislike that the american suburb is structured in a way that allows people to blissfully ignore their externalities - the fact that people believe that a car and a large house are their god given rights as an american citizen.
This is just as much of a baseless generalization as what I was railing against upthread.
― donk quixote (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:42 (thirteen years ago) link
Yep.
― Adolf Hipster (jjjusten), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:43 (thirteen years ago) link
last city i lived in most houses had porches
― harbl, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:43 (thirteen years ago) link
"suburbs require cars" is not really a baseless generalization
― iatee, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:44 (thirteen years ago) link
But nothing should intrude on your home life once you shut your door.
^major peeve of mine about the suburbs. sometimes it doesn't even have the "once you shut your door" caveat. "I don't want to have to smell your food, hear your dog or your music, see your unkempt lawn, or otherwise be made aware other people exist". Seriously, an apartment lease I signed a few years back had a "must not cook with pungent spices" clause in it.
― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:44 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah, a lot of the nice, old homes in my current city have dope fuckin' porches. The house I live in, however, does not.
― donk quixote (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:44 (thirteen years ago) link
xps
― donk quixote (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:45 (thirteen years ago) link
that's not really what you said though xxpost
― harbl, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:45 (thirteen years ago) link
― iatee, Tuesday, June 8, 2010 2:44 PM Bookmark
It's kind of a major stretch from "suburbs require cars" to "[suburban] people believe that a car and a large house are their god given rights as an american citizen". Sure, some do, but that hardly characterizes even the majority of people who live there.
― donk quixote (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:47 (thirteen years ago) link
(this apt building w/that clause inthe lease was in an area that was historically upper mid class white but seeing an influx of people with an Indian/Pakistani background btw)
― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:47 (thirteen years ago) link
Also, GD, I never lived in a suburb or somewhere that my peers shared a dream of moving closer to the bright lights of the nearest high-density urban area; it was pretty much us and the lakes and the trees. So I have different sensitivities.
Keep in mind my entire multi-generational family, every single one of them, cannot fathom how I can live in NY -- they all sort of congratulate me for navigating it but they think I'm crazy. One of my cousins moved out of Seattle because it wasn't green enough for him. They don't envy me in the slightest although they are very nice about not saying so specifically.
― the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:48 (thirteen years ago) link
xp haha, good luck with the pungent spice clause
― donk quixote (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:49 (thirteen years ago) link
suburbs are complicated
― harbl, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:50 (thirteen years ago) link
so ignore the american dream aspect - doesn't particularly matter. suburbs, almost by definition, create massive externalities and allow people to live without having to confront them. that makes it inherently a more selfish lifestyle.
― iatee, Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:50 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah Laurel can totally see how that could be every bit as annoying for you as city folk snobbery can be
― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:52 (thirteen years ago) link
iatee, this may amaze you, but a rather big percentage of people in my hometown were poor and lived in apartments and rode buses (at times, myself) and not really plugged into this whole white picket fence American Dream thing.
― donk quixote (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:52 (thirteen years ago) link
I always wished I lived in the suburbs when I was a kid. I was so jealous of kids who could just walk a few houses down to play with their friends, rather than ride bike 5 miles into town.
― breaking that little dog's heart chakra (Abbott), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:52 (thirteen years ago) link
i think you should write a thesis on this, iatee
What exactly do you mean by massive externalities?
― Adolf Hipster (jjjusten), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Assuming everyone in the suburbs is an upper-middle class homeowner is as much a fallacy as assuming everyone is white.
― donk quixote (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Me too, Abbs. I didn't know suburbs existed, I just wanted to live somewhere with a sidewalk, like they had In Town. I was sure I would have had more friends that way.
― the soul of the avocado escapes as soon as you open it (Laurel), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:54 (thirteen years ago) link
― harbl, Tuesday, June 8, 2010 2:50 PM Bookmark
^!
― donk quixote (The Reverend), Tuesday, 8 June 2010 21:54 (thirteen years ago) link