People Who Live In Suburbs: Classy, Icky, or Dudes?

well I've spent the vast majority of my life in a suburb too - and it sucked.

I really, really hate cars though.

chuburbs

xp to Grany What? Please. The country people I know LOVE looking down on urban peeps because we live "all smushed together on top of each other" plus we don't have the American dream of enough space not to care what anyone else thinks of how you live. And, you know, attics and basements and garages. Plus the country smells better plus lake views plus the beach plus they really love their lives there and it's the opposite of here so pretty much they're nice about it but they escape back to their private, individual houses with great relief.

(the "ugh city folk" lament of rural peeps is just a reaction to urban snobbery).

ugh, I once spent a week visiting a country cousin who insisted on calling me "city boy" the whole time I was there, which wasn't even accurate

Also they think the city is too fast and too worldly and too coarse.

i'm sorta of the mind that if i ever move out, i'm moving waaaayy the fuck out. like can't-see-nearest-neighbor's-house out

Just about to start reading this book, which looks like it addresses whats being discussed here, rather than an out-of-date popular image of suburbia

http://www.amazon.com/Suburban-History-Historical-Studies-America/dp/0226456633/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276030940&sr=8-1

I should add that they like Trader Joe's and triple-cream brie, though, so I will be filling a cooler with strange and wondrous foods next weekend and sending it home with my country people after their visit to the great grey city.

Wow this thread is fucking infuriating

xxp: Looks interesting.

iatee: Never mind me. The guy I had that convo with is a certifiable dumbass in general, and I'm kinda taking my angst about him out on you by proxy, which is unfair.

y'all may be right. I always interpreted rural disdain for city life as reactionary, though. It just feels different in tone.

I don't even know where to start, but it's tough to see some generally smart ilx peeps pulling a "why don't black people ever want to rock" level of analysis here

Found it kind of weird that I'd just bought that book, and then not only does the suburb thread get revived, but talking about the same thing!

they both boil down to one group not being able to grasp that the other group has different priorities, values, and preferences.

The expression of it is kinda reactionary but they're not really sorry they don't live in a city, ime.

granny otm

Like I picture city folk coming to a charming rural town and annoying the residents with their complaints about lack of this and that and their high-strungedness, and that causing the "ugh city folk" feeling. Whereas city folk don't get intruded on by country cousins on their turf the same way?

City fork who would do that are d-bags who deserve whatever they get imo. If you are going to go out to the country, you should be prepared to enjoy it for what it is.

Whereas city folk don't get intruded on by country cousins on their turf the same way?

Have you tried to walk through Grand Central lately?? Jesus. Also I have survived over a decade of my parents secretly and not so secretly feeling sorry for me that I don't live somewhere "nicer" or bigger or quieter or in a neighborhood where there are fewer crazy/drunk/high/seemingly unemployed-looking people walking around and standing on the corners. That last category may or may not include a subtext about minorities; I don't encourage that conversation.

I do have to say though, that the last time I encountered someone in a city who was rather conspicuously from the country, he addressed me as "Hey, nigger faggot."

Basically they'd like me to be someplace where none of the visible population is ever lower than middle-middle class regardless of race (best possible interpretation) and the stores are full of pretty things you want to buy to make your life prettier. I understand why they want this for me but it's a fast route to misery afaic.

Rev, I am tempted to joke, "sorry about my dad," but not even my dad would say something that fucking evilly hateful to someone's face.

everyone watches youtube

what I dislike about suburbs isn't really cultural. I dislike that the american suburb is structured in a way that allows people to blissfully ignore their externalities - the fact that people believe that a car and a large house are their god given rights as an american citizen. suburbs should be EXPENSIVE - they should be a luxury because in an environmental and social sense, they are.

My dad is straight country, though. He told me he was surprised people on the Tube in London were acting "weird" around him when he started cleaning his fingernails. What you have to know about my dad is he cleans his nails with the 5" pocket hunting knife that is on him at all times.

Last thing re city vs country: Oh and the buildings in a "nice" part of the city should be historical and architecturally attractive and vermin-free and feel like you're not actually in the city until you go outside. But nothing should intrude on your home life once you shut your door. Which basically explains why they live somewhere that you can't hit your neighbor's house with a rock while standing on your own porch.

Also: You have a porch.

Abbott, you are straight cracking me up.

How did he get a knife on the plane, can you check that shit?

So you are obv talking about outer ring suburbs here, right iatee?

Laurel, this was in 1999.

Lauren, I guess I don't see that as "looking down on", it doesn't seem based on snobbery? The rural&suburb-bashing city folk act like those people just haven't figured out how to be able to live in the city, or couldn't make it there once they did even though they obv must desperately want to.

whoa xposts

meant Laurel obv, sorry!

It's based on the "master of own domain" idea that iatee referred to up there. The American dream, doncha know. If you can't have that, they just feel gently sorry for you...UNLESS you have enough money to live as insulated from the discomforts of a city as if you WEREN'T in a city.

I've reached the conclusion that I'll never buy a house if it doesn't have a good-sized porch I can kick it on. Porches are very important to me, for some reason.

what I dislike about suburbs isn't really cultural. I dislike that the american suburb is structured in a way that allows people to blissfully ignore their externalities - the fact that people believe that a car and a large house are their god given rights as an american citizen.

This is just as much of a baseless generalization as what I was railing against upthread.

Yep.

last city i lived in most houses had porches

"suburbs require cars" is not really a baseless generalization

But nothing should intrude on your home life once you shut your door.

^major peeve of mine about the suburbs. sometimes it doesn't even have the "once you shut your door" caveat. "I don't want to have to smell your food, hear your dog or your music, see your unkempt lawn, or otherwise be made aware other people exist". Seriously, an apartment lease I signed a few years back had a "must not cook with pungent spices" clause in it.

Yeah, a lot of the nice, old homes in my current city have dope fuckin' porches. The house I live in, however, does not.

xps

that's not really what you said though xxpost

"suburbs require cars" is not really a baseless generalization

― iatee, Tuesday, June 8, 2010 2:44 PM Bookmark

It's kind of a major stretch from "suburbs require cars" to "[suburban] people believe that a car and a large house are their god given rights as an american citizen". Sure, some do, but that hardly characterizes even the majority of people who live there.

(this apt building w/that clause inthe lease was in an area that was historically upper mid class white but seeing an influx of people with an Indian/Pakistani background btw)

Also, GD, I never lived in a suburb or somewhere that my peers shared a dream of moving closer to the bright lights of the nearest high-density urban area; it was pretty much us and the lakes and the trees. So I have different sensitivities.

Keep in mind my entire multi-generational family, every single one of them, cannot fathom how I can live in NY -- they all sort of congratulate me for navigating it but they think I'm crazy. One of my cousins moved out of Seattle because it wasn't green enough for him. They don't envy me in the slightest although they are very nice about not saying so specifically.

xp haha, good luck with the pungent spice clause

suburbs are complicated

so ignore the american dream aspect - doesn't particularly matter. suburbs, almost by definition, create massive externalities and allow people to live without having to confront them. that makes it inherently a more selfish lifestyle.

yeah Laurel can totally see how that could be every bit as annoying for you as city folk snobbery can be