Taking Sides: Liverpool vs Everton

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Three Liverpool victories in a week: 0-2 at Yeovil, 0-1 at Chelsea, now 1-0 vs Villa. I am pleased. You would be surprised, or perhaps I myself ought to be more surprised, at how much of an enthusiast for Liverpool success I have become. If I travelled back to 1987 and told myself this, he would be disappointed.

Perhaps the meaning of it all is that Liverpool now mean football's past? So I am keen on them.

cf. David Lacey's Guardian article also.

Everton were alas defeated in the capital.

Anyway -- assuming a Liverpool comeback of some kind, how far can it go?

the pinefox (Jerrynipper), Saturday, 10 January 2004 19:49 (twenty years ago) link

Is Stevie T a Liverpool fan at all?

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 10 January 2004 20:46 (twenty years ago) link

Lacey's piece was very good yes.

I hate Michael Howard more than ever right now.

chris (chris), Sunday, 11 January 2004 10:52 (twenty years ago) link

I was sat in Rigby's (allegedly one of a handful of places in the world with Chimay on tap) on Dale Street on Saturday night next to a table of Reds thoroughly nonplussed by what they'd just seen at Anfield. Still, grinding out results like this when still looking nothing like a top-class side may see them win the also-rans' race.

Kilbane and Jeffers good again vs Fulham, but we wasted too many early chances. I fancy us in the forthcoming Cup rematch though.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Sunday, 11 January 2004 22:29 (twenty years ago) link

Owen sounds more like he's staying.

Much talk a la: "Liverpool now have to prove they're worthy of him".

But why? He is part of the team which has (relatively) failed - is he worthy of Liverpool? Shouldn't he be going out and proving it?

Insofar as he's not part of the failed team, it's because he has repeatedly seemed to play so few matches per season. So shouldn't he also be proving that he's fit enough to be offered a contract?

the liverfox, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 14:50 (twenty years ago) link

"The Liver Fox" - starring Nerys Hughes and Basil Brush.

Markelby (Mark C), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 14:53 (twenty years ago) link

Boom boom, la

the liverfox, Tuesday, 13 January 2004 15:46 (twenty years ago) link

well his scoring record has been consistently good, even with all the injuries.

Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 13 January 2004 20:48 (twenty years ago) link

"It got to the point where Sam Allardyce was being linked with my job last week. That was funny." - G. Houllier, quoted today.

Dear me, BIG SAM and his TV promoter Robbie Earle won't like that.

the liverfox, Saturday, 17 January 2004 14:17 (twenty years ago) link

one month passes...
Alas.

the beebfox, Monday, 23 February 2004 14:31 (twenty years ago) link

I think Houllier should go now, this week, straight away. Failing that as soon as the season ends, regardless of league position. The club is going nowhere.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 23 February 2004 21:26 (twenty years ago) link

If he goes this week, you ain't getting Martin O'Neill until Celtic's UEFA Cup run is over.

ailsa (ailsa), Monday, 23 February 2004 22:06 (twenty years ago) link

I guess so but nonetheless.

Ronan (Ronan), Monday, 23 February 2004 22:24 (twenty years ago) link

He'll go at the end of the season, short of miraculous form until then. Dave Boyle is convinced that O'Neill will replace him, which I find very plausible indeed, and that he'll turn them into a great team once more. He might be right.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 00:46 (twenty years ago) link

I ph34r MON leaving. But leave i think he will and Liverpool will be so lucky; if we're being honest, the celtic team is a bit of a bunch of cloggers who've not been attracting top club interest; he's made them mucyh more than the sum of their parts. Take that to Liverpool and it's quite frightening to the rest of the prem really.

Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:03 (twenty years ago) link

will houllier jump or will he pushed?

weasel diesel (K1l14n), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:06 (twenty years ago) link

he'll be gently shoved at the end of the season.

It's sad, there was so much promise a couple of years ago and now what? sliding again into turgid mediocrity

chris (chris), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:07 (twenty years ago) link

Take that to Liverpool and it's quite frightening to the rest of the prem really.

Aren't people overestimating the quality of the Liverpool squad a bit? I mean, they're 26 points off the title pace - that's not all down to GH's tactics/motivational skills, is it? They're clearly a cut above the Premiership median and still probably favourites for 4th spot (57-60pts will do it this season) but this seems a weaker collective pool of talent than 2000-01 (OK, that is GH's fault).

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:18 (twenty years ago) link

I've been hoping that Houllier would be sacked since this time last year but now I'm starting to fear that the Board will give him one more season to come good on his promises. If we do that then we'll lose our chance to get MO'N, could lose Owen and Gerrard, and become a truly mediocre team. We'll become the biggest sleeping giants of all time - above us only sky and around us only shit.

run it off (run it off), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:23 (twenty years ago) link

I think some of buys have been duds (there's a fine a venerable tradition of World Cup Pups; I see them as the footballing equivalent of drunken shags), whilst others are transitional, like Picture-penguin. But at the risk of sounding like a 5live phone-in caller, there's no way a team with Owen, Gerrard, Hamann and Hyppia should be 26 pts off the lead.

Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:24 (twenty years ago) link

I think it's a strong squad. They don't let in a lot of goals and they create a lot of chances. The big weakness is the over-reliance on little Michael to score all the goals. The addition of a proven goalscorer (is Cissé proven? I fear another Hadji Duff) could make all the difference.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:26 (twenty years ago) link

Liverpool appear to lack self belief at the moment. I think Cisse could be the key to next season, but you never really know. Diouf looked great at the world cup, but average in the Premiership.

I still think they'll get fourth. Does that constitute a decent season? I dunno.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:37 (twenty years ago) link

Can we talk about Everton now, please?

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:39 (twenty years ago) link

Self-belief lacking? call MON...no amount of history and heritage and weight of expectation too grebt.

Dave B (daveb), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:42 (twenty years ago) link

In September did any Liverpool fan think that 4th would be a good season? I don't think so. If anyone says it is now, that's just because we've all lowered our expectations because a good side is performing badly and getting terrible results. Now 4th is the best we can hope for. That tells you everything you need to know about Houllier's progress as Liverpool manager.

Everton are even worse.

run it off (run it off), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:42 (twenty years ago) link

See Owen's penalty at Fratton Park for belief, lacking in.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:44 (twenty years ago) link

They're a conundrum, all right. One keeps hearing of shambolic, aimless performances (though not at the back where they're famously tight) of unendurable negativity and then one reads the Monday papers' stats and they've had 37 shots on goal or something in a 1-1.

I liked Ian St John's claim that Houll the Ghoull is transforming the Anfield faithful into 'zombies', traipsing across a mist-shrouded Stanley Park.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:46 (twenty years ago) link

See Owen's penalty at Fratton Park for belief, lacking in.

That's nine misses in nineteen attempts! Who else would have him?

Everton - the Grand Old Relegation Struggle again. We can't even comfort ourselves with the notion that it's us and a dozen others because a gap has developed in the last couple of weeks and we're on the wrong end of it. I'm going to see them on Saturday - my first trip to Goodison in a decade - and hopefully it'll be our first league win of 2004. If not, I don't see us keeping the likes of Leeds, Wolves and Leicester at bay with any ease - none of them are in freefall, they're still snaffling up points here and there.

We seem to miss a similar proportion of chances to Liverpool, we just create a third as many. And we're leaky at the back in a way not hinted at by 02-03. This season we possession-dominate 0-1 defeats; last season we pinched even-steven games with late wonder-strikes. Gravesen is the most frustrating player to watch - occasionally inspired and inspiring, he misdirects more passes in 90 minutes than Paul Bracewell did in his whole career.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 12:57 (twenty years ago) link

Steve Watson was a big factor last season for your lot wasn't he? and this season he's having a mare.

What I've seen of Cisse he's been great, but always with the backing of Kapo while playing for Auxerre, maybe Kewell will provide similar service if he ever decides to start being a decent player again.

chris (chris), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 13:42 (twenty years ago) link

I don't think Everton will be drawn into a relegation fight. There are so many potential goals in that squad (Campbell, Ferguson (penalties and brave headers only), Radzinski, Rooney etc). David Unsworth isn't half the player he used to be, mind. And it wasn't much to begin with.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 13:56 (twenty years ago) link

Steve Watson was a big factor last season for your lot wasn't he? and this season he's having a mare.

I'm not sure about that - he only played a dozen or so games last campaign but started this season in great form (the hat-trick against Leeds being the highlight) and then got injured. But, yes, terribly ineffective since his return. We've missed a fit Kevin Campbell this year but we're going to have to get used to that - it's twilight time for KC.

Ha, just checked the stats on the website and Gravesen makes 77% of his passes, making him EFC's Mr Accuracy. Sorry, Thom!

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 14:19 (twenty years ago) link

Ah I was getting the start of this season mixed up with last, oops.

chris (chris), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 14:36 (twenty years ago) link

Houll the Ghoull!

Mike - I hope you're taking a camera!

(Not Titi.)

the roonfox, Tuesday, 24 February 2004 15:43 (twenty years ago) link

I liked Ian St John's claim that Houll the Ghoull is transforming the Anfield faithful into 'zombies', traipsing across a mist-shrouded Stanley Park.

Did I hear him say at the weekend that he had lost his job hosting hospitality suites because of being critical of Houllier last year?

Mooro (Mooro), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 16:30 (twenty years ago) link

three weeks pass...
BBC: Liverpool 3-0 Portsmouth

Liverpool revived their bid for a Champions League spot with a convincing victory over Portsmouth. A stunning volley from Dietmar Hamann and two goals from Michael Owen lifted the Reds into fifth place, a point adrift of Charlton.

Owen tucked away his first from six yards before sealing a welcome return to form with a second-half header.

Emile Heskey might have made it four late on when he headed against a post, while Portsmouth offered little.

Defeat left Portsmouth in the bottom three, still two points adrift of safety.

the liverfox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:12 (twenty years ago) link

At the weekend, Everton 1-0 Portsmouth and Soton 2-0 Liverpool made a poor contrast for Reds fans.

But have Liverpool now turned another corner?

And has Merseyside sent Portsmouth down?

the roonfox, Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:13 (twenty years ago) link

we may have sent them down, we may not have turned the corner, let's wait and see what happens against Wolves (who are in a wee bit of form)

I read today someone espousing Heskey for Centre back - this smacks of twisted genius

chris (chris), Thursday, 18 March 2004 14:21 (twenty years ago) link

This battle for 4th place might now be over if Newcastle hadn't repeatedly conceded last-gasp equalisers/winners in recent weeks. As much as the dim prospect of L'pool finishing out of the European places altogether tickles me, I suspect it'll come down to that last match with Newc at Anfield, May 15th with the Reds only needing a draw for CL 04-05 and Charlton a distant sixth.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 18 March 2004 15:11 (twenty years ago) link

And sixth won't be good enough for Europe this year. Only one UEFA cup spot (for fifth). First division clubs cup run to blame.

Chris, I wouldn't say losing 4-0 at home to Villa constitutes form for Wolves.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 18 March 2004 15:48 (twenty years ago) link

good point, I forgot about that one. Let's hope that's the start of a slide and not a blip.

chris (chris), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:03 (twenty years ago) link

And sixth won't be good enough for Europe this year.

Unless Boro have one hell of a run in. And no one wants that.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:09 (twenty years ago) link

Liverpool have turned a corner. I put Jamie Carragher in my Fantasy Football team yesterday in expectation of this. 5 points hurrah. It was mainly cause they had an extra game before the end of the game month and they were all against crappy teams, i have to admit.

N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:13 (twenty years ago) link

Carragher is one of my favourite Liverpool players, he's very good, and should maybe be playing centre midfield (although Hamann has resurrected himself lately)

chris (chris), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:16 (twenty years ago) link

He's not the most creative player though, is he? (last night's cross notwithstanding)

N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:20 (twenty years ago) link

his passing is vastly under-rated, very rarely gives the ball away, and uis a good hard player - exactly what Liverpool needs in the middle

chris (chris), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:23 (twenty years ago) link

Carragher is one of those solid, uninspiring players that all teams need and Liverpool have too many of. He's never going to appear on Showboating is he?

Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 18 March 2004 16:41 (twenty years ago) link

I think the points per game totals of the teams from 4th to 8th look a bit low, so I am expecting someone to claim 4th with a really outstanding run from now until the end of the season. I guess Liverpool and Newcastle are favourites for this, but last night and a good win against Wolves might give Liverpool exactly the launchpad into such a run that they need.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 18 March 2004 18:35 (twenty years ago) link

I think the points per game totals of the teams from 4th to 8th look a bit low, so I am expecting someone to claim 4th with a really outstanding run from now until the end of the season.

I can't work out if this makes sense or not. I am dumb.

N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:05 (twenty years ago) link

I mean that I would expect a team to finish 4th with a much higher ratio than is currently the case, so I expect someone to pull away with great form more than I expect other teams to drop off through poor form.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:28 (twenty years ago) link

Isn't that like thinking that if you've tossed five tails in a row you're more likely to get heads the next time?

N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 18 March 2004 19:31 (twenty years ago) link


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