Israel to World: "Suck It."

Just Another Feeble President

Jammin At Federal Plaza!

By the way I am beyond shocked that activists hellbent on breaking an official military blockade of Gaza might respond violently to being boarded and sabotaged by Israeli soldiers

― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, June 1, 2010 1:19 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark

i don't think anyone else is shocked by this, are they?

the whole point of the flotilla was, well, pretty much to provoke some kind of incident, yes? what with the repeated iteration that israel would maintain the blockade. and the refusal to dock at ashdod.

whether it's a good life strategy to respond violently, idk, the other boats seem to have thought otherwise, but no-one is surprised by it

Yeah, I'd like to see that former ambassador and that Holocaust survivor beating on the IDF with clubs. Methinks they made the right decision.

history mayne - well, the IDF certainly seemed surprised and unprepared.

wut:

A soldier identified only as a sergeant told reporters at a military briefing that the activists on board "were armed with knives, scissors, pepper spray and guns." He said he was armed only with a paintball rifle. "It was a civilian paintball gun that any 12-year-old can play with," he said. "I saw my friends on the deck spitting blood."

Paintballing in international waters. Riiiiiiiiiight.

http://www.salon.com/news/2010/06/01/new_boat_gaza/index.html

Greta Berlin of the Free Gaza Movement, which organized the flotilla, said another cargo boat was off the coast of Italy en route to Gaza. A second boat carrying about three dozen passengers is expected to join it, Berlin said. She said the two boats would arrive in the region late this week or early next week.

"This initiative is not going to stop," she said from the group's base in Cyprus. "We think eventually Israel will get some kind of common sense. They're going to have to stop the blockade of Gaza, and one of the ways to do this is for us to continue to send the boats."

This is kinda awesome and I hope it works.

From that article a week ago:

Defense Minister Ehud Barak surprised his colleagues at the meeting when he described a suggestion by journalist Eitan Haber, who reportedly proposed that the demonstrators be greeted at Ashdod by women soldiers dressed in white. They would give the activists letters destined for captive Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, after which their ships would be allowed to sail on to Gaza.

Another participant suggested that a collection of rockets that had been fired at the Sderot area from Gaza be put on display at Ashdod Port for the activists and foreign media to see.

The juvenile mindset here is just.. o_O

I don't know about that, the second one is definitely childish but Gilad Shalit situation is tragic imho.

they didnt think the "peace activists" will attack them (which was a mistake - if idf knew it will happen - they wouldnt try to take control over the ship the way they did) so they carried those paintballs.
but, they also carried pistols - for the worst case scenerio - which happened.

in retrospect, the whole thing was a big stupid mistake.

xxpost

Gilad Shalit situation is tragic

Sure it is. But the equation implied there, the implicit collective punishment involved, is just fucking gross.

Tom D close enough on JAFP

I didn't see it as a reminder that the blockade exists because of Shalit, esp since that's not the reason for the blockade. I just saw it as a sign of goodwill -- like here are the supplies, please release this dude. I think everyone agrees that Hamas's demands for releasing Shalit (releasing 1,000 convicted terrorists from prison) is pretty odious.

It's like passive aggressiveness raised to Level 10.

can you explain further tracer? why passive aggressive?

not enough gunshots

amateurist you don't see anything passive-aggressive about greeting pro-gaza demonstrators with female IDF soldiers dressed all in white (and presumably smiling beatifically), holding a letter to deliver to the man on whom 1000 acts of petty and not-so-petty revenge have been justified??

I mean yeah, in the end they just went with full on "aggressive", and by "aggressive" I mean "slaughter", which is more honest I guess.

lol at the idea that it's better to kill a bunch of people and "be honest" than deliver letters to a prisoner in a staged event. if that's passive aggressive, would take it over actual aggressive any day.

tracer: you mean it would have been dishonest to make that gesture when the blockade is so hurting the people of gaza?

sorry, i wasn't arguing w/ you, just trying to understand.

passive-aggressive shit should be considered something of a step-up (for both sides)

the IDF certainly seemed surprised and unprepared.

― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, June 1, 2010 2:13 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark

I mean yeah, in the end they just went with full on "aggressive", and by "aggressive" I mean "slaughter", which is more honest I guess.

― The Clegg Effect (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, June 1, 2010 3:56 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

sorry, just to clarify, which is it?

a - surprised
b - unprepared
c - aggressive
d - all of the above

passive-aggressive shit should be considered something of a step-up (for both sides)

I agree! Maybe eventually Israel could just make assholish symbolic gestures their usual thing instead of illegal state killing. Think big!

Oh and before anybody gets on me: YES, THE SAME GOES FOR HAMAS, TOTALLY. THEY TOO HAVE BEEN JUST TERRIBLE.

ooh, rim-shot

I still don't get what's assholish about symbolic gestures -- aren't politics 99% of the time symbolic? Isn't that kind of the point?

I think you just answered your own question

Newp.

but it wouldn't be wholly or even mostly symbolic if they actually let the aid through. it would be like a real thing with some symbolic stuff added on.

Mordy I'm not going to continue explaining why I think the journalist's proposal about soldiers dressed in white bearing a letter to deliver to a political prisoner is passive-aggressive way to greet people laden with 10,000 tonnes of aid for people those same soldiers are enforcing a lifetime of misery on. Oh wait I guess I am. Well, anyway.

didn't you just agree that passive-aggressiveness is a step-up?

This is inane, so I'm dropping it. If Tracer has a problem with symbolic gestures like sending letters to a kidnapped dude then I'm not going to argue about it.

It's totally inane - but I think it's worth reflecting on how such gimmickry could appeal to heads of state. If the issue is the blockade, then deflect, deflect, deflect..

Anyway, the Belfast Palestine Solidarity Committee is apparently sending a ship called "MV Rachel Corrie".. That'll end well.

Obama administration will stand with Israel.

Tracer, it's 25 hours from Gaza:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0601/breaking33.html

Jesus Christ why do I read the comments on these things.

xpost

I'm glad uh 'Micheál Martin' has decided to take the Israel/Palestine situation in his own hands

Jewish American Funky Princess?

justanotherfuckingpresident

^ you got it

O_o opinion piece in Slate today

http://www.slate.com/id/2255572/

The debate about the effectiveness of and justification for the Gaza blockade will be useful some day, but it has nothing to do with the raid on the flotilla.

So, the only question that is really relevant to this recent bloodshed on the high seas is about the use of excessive force against the protesters. And it is not a very interesting or complicated question.

Better information was needed. The commandos didn't know they were going to face an angry mob armed with knives and bats. Different equipment was needed: The raiders apparently didn't have enough nonlethal weapons on hand. A more creative approach was needed: Maybe a way to stop the ship without having to board it. But these are all just technical details of an operation gone sour. Those countries and organizations now wanting an "investigation" can get the answers they need without having to trouble themselves with a lengthy examination. Here's what happened: The soldiers were surprised by a mob; they saw their friends being lynched; they acted as any soldier would have and should have acted. To save their fellow soldiers, they opened fire. Civilians were killed. It's no cause for pride—but also nothing to be ashamed of.

I don't see what's so strange - presumably the last line is about the soldiers' conduct rather than the bad planning

the only surprising thing about this to me is how sloppily/shittily the IDF were with this operation. I thought those guys were all supposed to be crack commandos!

I don't see what's so strange - presumably the last line is about the soldiers' conduct rather than the bad planning

I dunno, I think dismissing different approaches (a way to stop the ship without having to board it vs. dropping commandos by helicopter in the dark) as "just technical details" is a pretty crazy way to try to say that if the blockade is justified (an argument the piece dismisses as "for another time"), then any means of enforcement is justified.

i think -- unless they're lying, and both sides do that a lot -- the idf said, please dock at ashdod, change course, etc., the people on the ship said no, then they boarded. it didn't come out of nowhere.

there blatantly is an argument to be had about the israeli/egyptian blockade. but it's in place, the free gaza convoy knew it was, and knew also that it would be enforced.

israel seems to have been really inept in doing so, but what is the right way to stop a ship?

sink it

israel seems to have been really inept in doing so, but what is the right way to stop a ship?

― truff sqwad (history mayne), Tuesday, June 1, 2010 12:45 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

really go ham, just kill everyone