Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

Oh, I'm sure he's coming back.

I had missed the whole Amy's clock going wrong thing (went from 11.59am on 25 June to 12.00pm on 26 June) and the thing about Rory's ID card (NHS staff card issued in 1990, when he'd have been 8 if we're in 2010, which I think we possibly are again, though I'll defer to aldo if I'm wrong there), so I don't think it's outwith the realm of possibility that there's weird time shit going on and that'll let him come back.

The NHS card I'm pretty sure was revealed to just be a prop goof, not intentional. Very Lost!

aah, but was it? There was a close-up and everything!

Moffat claimed he had no idea about it and it must have been a mistake.

Or, as those watching the episode might call it, the place you've just been negotiating to live in and have spend the whole story talking about going to and/or the place you've been going to already.

They're a) soldiers, who do what they've been trained to, and b) total deadshits. And again giving Chibnall too much credit, once hibernated, an infected 'lurian isn't going to spread the infection any further.

PS woooow that is way too much JNT on that Youtube channel! MOAR PERTWEE, ADD HINCHCLIFFE AND WILLIAMS

Rory did have a pretty circa 1990 idea of what cool hair is like in the dream episode.

it didn't help that they just killed rory off two episodes ago, so the drama of the moment was a bit undercut by "what, this again?"

OTM, was the only lame item out of what I thought was a great episode ending. When Rory comes back - and I can't imagine he wouldn't - I'm looking forward to his showing newfound maturity by kicking Amy to the curb. It's no wonder he's so useless when she lives to tear him down.

Effects, makeup and costumes really nice in this episode!

i'm enjoying this season but seriously, this is the most neurotic i've ever seen this show get - everyone's letting their issues take over! they need to land on a psychiatrist planet. i think the crack in the wall/space/time might close up with some shock therapy and zoloft.

Emo Who for realz.

Was mightily impressed by Amy's meltdown...very affecting. Though it does bug me that she would show such a reaction supposedly borne of love when she is so seemingly not in love with him when he's around. Irritatingly flighty I think is how I would characterize her.

Bit pleased with myself for calling Ambrose as the lizard-killah. And boy she really did manage to get even less likeable, amazed, wasn't sure i could like old sourface less...but oh how I did. Bleh. Poor Elliot. Leave home as soon as you can kid, your mam is a bint with a silly name.

I suspect I may have overprimed myself by thinking that Stephen Moffat running Doctor Who was going to result in the best TV ever made. But still very much enjoying it all--though the distant waving Amy/Rory stuff seemed very underdeveloped. And I still don't get what was so important about that deleted scene. Can somebody please explain to dense me?

I thought it was just that the Doctor said that he liked Rory very much, something that hasn't been evident from anyone really except for when he keeps dying all the time and Amy suddenly realises he's OK (only to go back to zinging and not caring when he came back after the dreamlord death).

The waving Rory/Amy was just to show that timey wimey stuff can change the future - they'd seen future them and then when Rory died it was just her seeing future her.

I'm so nicking "hotlegs the zing machine" for future use.

The important thing about the deleted scene is the "time is not fixed wrt you" bit the Doctor says to Amy.

It's still worth remembering the Amy (and Rory) we see waving in the distance are wearing their clothes from Amy's Choice. Other things to remember: Amy's stairwell in front of the door she can't see in The Eleventh Hour. The Doctor's jacket when he comes out of the forest in the Weeping Angels one. The graveyard just before Elliot disappears. Amy's memories of the Daleks.

There are no ducks in the duck pond.

Yeah, the doctor's jacket suggests he went back and told wee Amelia something then nipped back to comfort Amy in the forest. Waht is graveyard thing? I presume the daleks have gone into that crack (but why does she remember the clerics?)

btw, I have to go out, so won't see any answers until later, but these are things that puzzle me.

Graveyard thing is the same thing from Eleventh Hour. Can't say any more for SHH SPOILAZ.

I thought three things:

1) BORING
2) Ambrose is still a man's name
3) Dreadful dialogue, particularly when Rory says to Silurian lady "you're not going to die, not TODAY!" two seconds before she dies.

When the Doctor was being tortured Han Solo-style at the beginning and Amy and the other bloke were running around the corridors of the Silurian city, it felt for a minute like proper old Tom Baker-style Who, and I thought we might be in for some proper sneaking about and rescuing, but it all just kind of fell apart.

Amy's gobby face is starting to get on my nerves as well. I don't think it's Karen Gillan's fault though. I just wish the writers would give her something to do to show us why the Doctor likes her so much. More pickpocketing of useful items would be a start.

Is not SSH SPOILAZ if it's been on though, surely?

Also hate her in the dancing clip, Matt is just doing a dad-dancing thing whereas she is doing a weird look-at-me-don't-look-at-me-look-at-me thing that she's privately sure makes he look like Lady Gaga. (NB, I was at a wedding on Saturday and saw a pile of 20-somethings doing the exact same thing.)

It's SHH SPOILAZ what you should have been looking for though and why it's important. xpost

Aldo, it might be time for one of those remedial emails.

Those moves weren't completely Boombox, just the kind of post-voguing moves girls have done for 20 years.

Shows how much attention I pay to GURLZ.

It's just as well I don't spend a lot of time on Doctor Who forums, or that would make me look really sad.

Ah yes, also I had some info from my friend who styled her the other week for a Perou shoot - she runs with a fashiony crowd, boyf is art director type.

I'm looking forward to Rory showing his newfound maturity by kicking Amy to the curb

Ha, given this is a Moffatt show, that is not totally implausible.

I'm still not convinced that having ambiguous feelins about your partner (i.e. Rory) is character inconsistency -- surely it's just normal (especially if you're 20)?

I suspect I may have overprimed myself by thinking that Stephen Moffat running Doctor Who was going to result in the best TV ever made.

It's not so much that the show has become significantly better, I think, but the lows aren't nearly so low anymore.

I take it the Graveyard thing is the bit where that shadow quickly runs across the screen as in The Eleventh Hour. Guessing this is FutureDoc coming back on himself to piss about with time, no?

(Sorry if that was a spoiler, I was merely speculating based on what's already been said here)

It's still worth remembering the Amy (and Rory) we see waving in the distance are wearing their clothes from Amy's Choice.

Bloody hell aldo, how big is your telly?

particularly when Rory says to Silurian lady "you're not going to die, not TODAY!"

That was him echoing the doctor's earlier "nobody dies, not today" thing though, wasn't it? I thought it was a cute way of demonstrating Rory's faith in the doc, despite all his criticisms etc.

In the Angels episode when the soldiers guarding Amy all went off one by one into the light/Crack, why didn't Amy 'forget' about them in the same way she did with Rory?

Doctor said she's different cos she's travelled thru time, handily, iirc.

Soldiers not wrapped up in her timeline in the way that Rory is, plausible enough.

She's annoying as fuck and doesn't do anything except zing and sass about, even in mortal danger.

This is one of those things that becomes received wisdom 'truth' just because enough people have said it on message boards enough time but is actually not true at all. The space whale episode for example where Amy being compassionate saved the day when the Doctor was ready to let it all go to shit. The "Amy doesn't 100% trust the Doctor" thing hinted at in the Weeping Angels episode is going to get some play later. And the Amy's Choice episode was great.

I think the problem is that some of the writers haven't really worked out how to write properly for her yet, when Moffat's been at the helm she's been much better and more interesting.

Getting Rory out of the way at this stage is probably quite sensible. I want the Moff to do another episode soon though.

Next week's ep looks like the very definition of a 6/10 bit of standard nu-Who historical fluff though.

I liked the monster in the window tho. Touch of the MR James about it.

Hmm, I think Moffat got a lot better than I expected from Simon fucking Nye so it may be fine.

It also doesn't help Amy's character that she's been in a script written for Donna, who was zingy as all get out (& who I also liked a lot).

Maybe the problem is that Karen Gillen isn't a good enough actor to carry Amy off sympathetically. She has this annoying stary-eye thing that's difficult to take seriously. Same way Donna would have been much better had she not been played by Catherine Tate.

can't stop seeing the MySpace pout since Tracer pointed it out

I am really going to have to stop reading this thread. :(

Amy's life's theme is abandonment, so it's understandable that she would overcompensate by never allowing Rory to think that he has any emotional hold over her that might leave her vulnerable. My guess is that as the show goes on, she'll learn to be, well, kinder, and Rory will become more assertive - and that will help to cement the relationship.

(Mickey and Rose by contrast had the same dynamic - doofus boyfriend and lovestruck-with-the-doctor - but their growing up led to them growing apart, I see the opposite happening with Amy and Rory.)

It's still worth remembering the Amy (and Rory) we see waving in the distance are wearing their clothes from Amy's Choice. Other things to remember: Amy's stairwell in front of the door she can't see in The Eleventh Hour. The Doctor's jacket when he comes out of the forest in the Weeping Angels one. The graveyard just before Elliot disappears. Amy's memories of the Daleks.
There are no ducks in the duck pond.

Man, I am so confused now. If it was just a La Jetee thing and there was only one timeline I could deal, but things are changing all the time, aren't they?

The space whale episode for example where Amy being compassionate saved the day when the Doctor was ready to let it all go to shit.

Space Whale thing was weird because she was all "HE'S JUST LIKE YOU DO YOU SEE" when she'd known the Doctor for, like, two days. It was as unexpected as her working out to pause the video loop of the angel when the angel wasn't in screen.

I agree that it's because she's badly written for (and aye, getting a Donna episode didn't help), but regardless, I have no real idea of who she is or why the hell I should care about her. Her lack of backstory and continuous twattishness towards Rory (except when he's dead) doesn't help.

I thought the shadow in the graveyard was a Silurian. Silly me.

It was a Silurian.

Right? Like, doesn't Elliot disappear right before we first see the Silurian warrior, what's her name that dies?

Oh is that not what the SSH SPOILAZ were about? Was there SOMETHING ELSE in the graveyard?

xpost

Shadow isn't a Silurian.

Any chance of having less spoilers on this page, please, and getting back to more wrongheaded supposition instead?

most of these "spoilers" sound like utter tosh tbh. crappest episode of the series for me - not quite saved by exciting arc stuff at the end which all felt a bit forced in by hand of Mof who knew this was otherwise weak sauce.

last two episode titles have been confirmed btw

Chris Chibnall should be placed on Doctor Who's no fly list along with Gatiss and Helen Raynor.

Why no Paul Cornell this season? He could've pissed out a better Silurian story.

Gatiss' Dickens/ghosties one wasn't too bad at all.

yeah but he's done two crap ones since. keep him away from the 20th century.

Creepy Victoriana is pretty much the only thing Gatiss can do.

He wrote an awesome 7th Doctor book about people's memories coming to life and eating them.