Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

Also, where were the explanations for either grave robbing or the blue grass? According to the plot, all the drilling was doing was cracking oxygen pockets.

Overall kind of weak (felt very Star Trek at points, but that might be a combo of brokering peace treaties and lizard people)

Even the music sounded very Star Trek. It was all very meh, except for maybe the last five minutes or so of the episode.

series 5 has reversed the tradition of the first two-parter kind of sucking and the second two-parter being better. this was super-boring and inconsistent and redundant. like, are these negotiations supposed to be inherently interesting to watch? because we already know they're going to fall to shit when they discover the dead lizard lady. but then the military leader started preemptively killing people before she even learned about her dead sister, so.

i'm really tired of amy at this point. i thought little amelia pond was wonderful, and i liked where they were going with the character in the first few episodes, but all that feels a million miles away. now it's all either sassy joeks or dead-boyfriend-sad with not a lot in between, and i don't think she pulls off either with total aplomb.

yeah, I wanted tiny Amelia Pond to go on adventures when watching Ep 1, let's have that next season when they hit the reset button on this time loop or bubble universe.

and I rly rly hate to be cap'n save-a-chibnall but

Why the change in behaviour in the scientist? He was all HARHARHAR MUST VIVISECT (please to note, vivisection is what you do on live specimens, not dissection) FOR SHITS 'N' GIGGLES one minute then

v true on vivisection, but from his perspective, he knew he could put people back together no problem, and was doing it for science

suddenly changes to a position where the Tennant Doctor would have rubbed his cheeks and gone OOOO I WUB YOU HYOOMUNS REPTILES.

Smith Doctor actually says "I rather love you!" One of many unwelcome callbacks to RTD-stylee, along with all the FAMILY FAMILY FAMILEEEEE, spend ten minutes hugging everyone stuff.

Didn't understand the Toxic Gas hibernation system either - if you were having to go into hibernation because of some threat to your life, refusal to do so is rewarded with death?

....er, yes? if you don't avoid the threat to your life, you die.

If you think you're going to die by not hibernating, then what kind of a threat is that?

it's a defence against infection, not a threat against anything. the infection is the threat to your life.

Or why didn't they just use the discs to get to the surface and avoid the gas?

Safer to go back to the cosy hibernation that's worked for millennia than to go to an alien culture you know nothing about!

How were Meera Syal and Grandad Greenshoulder going to survive that gas and then get into hibernation,

The room's locked. fumigation's in the tunnels.

and how did they know they would even be able to use the system to do it?

Wise Old Silurian either said it might, or didn't say it wouldn't

Wasn't Agressive Shouty Warrior Reptile put into hibernation at one point, only to reappear 30 seconds later?

I don't think so?

Also, to any Cap'n-Save-An-Amys out there, it may benefit you to rewatch the sequence where she bangs on the door of the TARDIS post-RoryDeath after the Doctor has soniced it. ARTHUR IS THE ACTOR'S NAME, NOT THE CHARACTER'S.

She says "Let me out, PLEASE let me out, I need to get to Rooory!" Gasping while crying, then breathing in again, doesn't = saying "Arthur!"

Another dumb dumb bit from the writer of 42: starting a 15-minute countdown 15 minutes before the end of the episode, playing a scene in real time, and saying "8 minutes left!" three minutes later.

also, I forget to say it every week, but fuck Murray Gold.

Anyone else doubt that Rory is gone forever?

Maybe they're still in the dream from the Dreamlord episode.

also those are some fucking lame warriors, who when given an order to shoot, stand around for 2 minutes while someone disarms them one by one by one. and don't know how to aim their own tongues.

Didn't enjoy the return to Rusty STRONG WOMEN BEING STRONG FOR THEIR FAMILY BECAUSE FAMILY TRUMPS EVERYTHING territory either.

I saw this more as mocking the faaaaaaambly stuff. It's the boneheaded insistence that family trumps all that almost leads to war, estranges son from mother (despite Grandad's pleas) and leaves humanity on its own for the next 1000 years.

(ended up as x-post so stet otm)

STRONG WOMEN BEING STRONG FOR THEIR FAMILY BECAUSE FAMILY TRUMPS EVERYTHING

But it was a take-down of this no? Like familyfamilyfamily is what really sends everything shitwards here. Felt like an explicit takedown or rebuild of the tedious RTD fallback family stuff. Sorta ok with it for this one, just thankful Amy's still effectively an orphan.

Thought this was ok, not great. Not too plot-holey really, and I can take a little bit of Star Trekky politics. Didn't mind that we knew the negotiations would be shot to shit - just added to the gloomy view of humans in this one, which I thought was its strongest suit - less of the thumb-in-the-scales 'aren't humans WONDERFUL', more of the 'really plz just stop killing shit for 5 min'.

No, familyfamilyfamily always did turn everything to shit or was the wrong decision in Rusty's ers, it just got given a free pass as understandable because it was familyfamilyfamily.

To go back to the earlier question about Toxic Gas Hibernation:

....er, yes? if you don't avoid the threat to your life, you die.

it's a defence against infection, not a threat against anything. the infection is the threat to your life.

It's a threat THEY put there. And it's not much protection against infection if you still have enough time to run into hibernation when you hear the warning signs they're about to start using toxic gas now, is it? "Everybody run to the hibernation tanks except those of you who think you've got a bit of a sniffle, you lot just stay here and get gassed to death without any protest or struggle please thank you."

Safer to go back to the cosy hibernation that's worked for millennia than to go to an alien culture you know nothing about!

Or, as those watching the episode might call it, the place you've just been negotiating to live in and have spend the whole story talking about going to and/or the place you've been going to already.

Didn't mind that we knew the negotiations would be shot to shit - just added to the gloomy view of humans in this one

yeah, this is dramatic irony – something old who used to be big on, pre rusty era

That said: I didn't react to this episode as strongly as the rest of you. The only scenes that really bothered me were

1) the abortive vivisection
2) rory's dying words. for godssakes, just let him kick the bucket. either he'll be back (ehh) or he won't (ehh) but the impact of his death was mitigated by his last gasping platitudes.
3) the rushed negotiations. if more had been done to convey lengthiness, rigor, or great debate i would have been convinced of the necessity of these scenes. but Amy's bored-ass slouching on the table only undermined the seriousness of the goal and highlighted the character's immaturity (though this, i wonder, might not be out of place if timey-wimeyness and Amelia are somehow implicated)
4) the stupid sonic screwdriver/gunplay crap

http://imgur.com/wUsp3.gif

The ending was great (TARDIS-through-crack, not Rory's Best Bits in dream sequence flashback that was horrible), the rest not so much.

Really wanted to punch Amy in the face for being terrible zingmonster all the way through ("Clingy much?"), but DeadRory seemed to bring her back round again, though now she's forgotten him, it'll all be shite again.

haven't seen any of this series but really not getting the amy-hate

I don't get it either. Maybe her prettiness is affecting my judgment.

She's annoying as fuck and doesn't do anything except zing and sass about, even in mortal danger. And she's mean to lovely (dead) Rory.

Which of the classic serials on YouTube are worth watching?

http://www.youtube.com/show?p=Ps0e32nFzs0&s=1

I've seen Sensorites, Krotons and Carnival of Monsters.

Androzani probably the best of those. Twin Dilemma for lolz only. Mandragora also good, and I quite like Full Circle.

haven't seen any of this series but really not getting the amy-hate

Try watching, you might get it.

Masque of Mandragora! Full Circle is pretty good even though it introduced Adric, and Caves of Androzani is really good too. Planet of the Spiders is way overlong but the last episode is wonderful.

On Amy, I feel like she's nearly a brilliant portrait of a kind of troubled personality I've met - manic-energetic, curious, restless, up for things; but suddenly sullen and aggressive. Dangerous to those around them, and solipsistic. (I don't think I'm trying to describe bipolar; maybe one of those Borderline PD/Narcissism things that everyone's always calling everyone else nowadays). But it isn't really working if that's what's intended (because of her acting? script trouble? the need to make her conventionally likeable?), and I can't tell if it even is intended - maybe she's just meant to be hotlegs the zing machine. I really liked her early on; now my hope is waning.

However, I like looking at Karen Gillan very, very much.

She's annoying as fuck and doesn't do anything except zing and sass about, even in mortal danger.

I agree with second point, but not the first. I find her zinging and sassing entirely bearable.

She basically pokes about in dangerous places, is not even remotely fazed by tootling about space and time with a bloke she met in her kitchen when she was 7, deals with danger by quipping sassily at the bringer of danger, manages to solve and understand everything really really quickly and cleverly when wiser men/timelords than her faff about ineffectively going "umm..." because we are met to thing she is all ZOMG AMAZING just like what Rose was, and she wears tights to go to Rio so she is clearly mental.

She's very pretty though, yes. But sarky intelligent zingers, even hott ones, don't work as kissograms, do they? I also have HUGE issues around her relationship with Rory.

i think of her as the genetic average of donna and rose. but i sort of liked rose, so go figure.

Matt Smith's jumper is making me want a tube of refreshers.

met to thing

meant to think, obv. Amy has used up all the common sense and ZOMG AMAZINGness for the entire population of Inverness, leaving me a gibbering fool.

yeah i didn't mind amy at all until she started being an asshole to rory, who may be a boring doofus but is otherwise, a sweetheart. Really annoying in this episode in particular.

James' gif needs more love, Ladytron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGf4MzMYIXs

let's be fair though, what the heck is so likeable about Rory? he's mostly another boring hangdog clingy guy, he doesn't he even have half the spirit of Mickey as far as likeable losers go

He's normal and nice. The Whoniverse needs more normal and nice people in it (it's why I used to like Jackie Tyler more than Rose as well)

I really liked Meera Syal in this one, btw.

let's be fair though, what the heck is so likeable about Rory? he's mostly another boring hangdog clingy guy, he doesn't he even have half the spirit of Mickey as far as likeable losers go.

This is why I have problems with people who think he's "lovely" -- he seems massively codependent, it's not like I dislike the guy but he doesn't seem particularly admirable in any way either.

Just watched, no real problems. Hardly amazing, but I'm still looking at what this series brings - some hard messing around with time (in a constructive way, not the vague and almost indifferent RTD way), underground cities/forests in spaceships/vampires/slight sense of dislocation and mystery in the series arc (so so much better than the f'ing Bad Wolf stuff), genuine chills (first ep of this one was better for that), and the focus on the adventure rather than the emo stuff. I know the emo stuff is kind of part of it now, but the adventure and strangeness shd always be the priority imo.

Much better than the Glam Who and the Supervillain Roadshow of RTD era.

It's not all amazing, but I mind the way it's bad (this slightly trudgy episode for instance) than when the last series was bad.

I quite like the old Davidson/Pertwee feel to it as well. (Those tin gas guns were pure old skool).

Still like Matt Smith v much as well. Amy -

manic-energetic, curious, restless, up for things; but suddenly sullen and aggressive

This, totally. How she is portrayed feels v natural to me, like a few girls I know (in a good way), and I think it's pretty intentional. And I think it works quite well with the Doctor persona - stroppiness, uncertainty, cavalier unthinking courage, working under the teacherly Doctor, as if she's not sure what's fun and what's serious.

Music is utterly dreadful.

glad they killed off Gary Neville

Actually, I thought some of Amy's zings (especially the totally inappropriate "clingy" one) were quite funny and well-delivered. And I sort of like the idea that she half-loves, half-patronises Rory and hasn't quite made up here mind about him, because (to me at least) that strikes me as quite a realistic portrayal of how some relationships work (as opposed to Rose getting googly-eyed over David Tennant). Whether that's appropriate for Doctor Who, and whether the writing and the acting quite sell the idea, I'm not sure. But I do like her Larry David foot-in-mouthiness.

Incidentally, while that cut scene from Confidential was pretty incidental to the plot, I thought that bit of the Doctor saying "I really like him" about Rory was very sweet, and it might have given more gravitas to the death scene if they'd kept it in.

Also, Matt Smith still totally charming, if not quite always-not-wooden.

And I sort of like the idea that she half-loves, half-patronises Rory and hasn't quite made up here mind about him

She's supposed to be getting married to him in some version of tomorrow, she should have decided by now!

(Actually, that's the bit I find the most true-to-life.)

Yeah, the problem with the story so far is that the viewer probably needs the expository scenes and isn't getting enough of them for a grasp on why Amy acts the way she does. I don't necessarily have any issues with her diffidence or sarcasm, or the way she seems to hedge bets on her relationship. She's insecure on so many levels.

Something annoying on Confidential is how the actors have this wooden/corporate way of referring to episodes which weirds me out, since previous actors seemed to be in geek heaven compared to these.

I guess she's insecure because the doctor pissed off and forget to come back for her for years (twice!) and she doesn't appear to have a family or anything, I get all that. Doesn't make her any more likeable or watchable though.

I think Rory is really irritating, but that's because they gave the guy only one dramatic concern: insecurity about Amy actually liking him after the Doctor showed up. It's kind of unfair to only present him this way & expect us to be sentimental about him when he dies.

I'm actually quite pleased whenever Rory turns up, but it's hard to get sentimental about him when you know he's going to come back in the finale (I'm guessing)...

SPOILER ALERT:

not too big a spoiler

but

but

My husband tells me he's listed in the cast for the finale on IMDB. For whatever that is worth.

it didn't help that they just killed rory off two episodes ago, so the drama of the moment was a bit undercut by "what, this again?"

i'm also still annoyed that "amy's choice" copied dead-boyfriend lines from torchwood, because when it comes to being sad over your dead boyfriend, amy doesn't hold a candle to gwen.

Haven't thought this through much, but has Rory been important to stuff that will unravel now that he's been wiped from existence? None of the stuff in Amy's Choice actually happened, but the Vampires of Venice stuff wouldn't have panned out had he not been around, same with The Eleventh Hour, surely?

I doubt they're going that far, at least with the style of timey-wimey wiped-from-existence stuff that's been going on this season. Those things still happened, just sidestepping his involvement. (Ignoring the likely deus ex machina where everybody lives we'll probably get at the end.)

Oh, I'm sure he's coming back.

I had missed the whole Amy's clock going wrong thing (went from 11.59am on 25 June to 12.00pm on 26 June) and the thing about Rory's ID card (NHS staff card issued in 1990, when he'd have been 8 if we're in 2010, which I think we possibly are again, though I'll defer to aldo if I'm wrong there), so I don't think it's outwith the realm of possibility that there's weird time shit going on and that'll let him come back.

The NHS card I'm pretty sure was revealed to just be a prop goof, not intentional. Very Lost!

aah, but was it? There was a close-up and everything!

Moffat claimed he had no idea about it and it must have been a mistake.

Or, as those watching the episode might call it, the place you've just been negotiating to live in and have spend the whole story talking about going to and/or the place you've been going to already.

They're a) soldiers, who do what they've been trained to, and b) total deadshits. And again giving Chibnall too much credit, once hibernated, an infected 'lurian isn't going to spread the infection any further.