Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

who believe that the BBC have an agenda to place ethnic minorities in positions of power wherever possible

I'm sure they do. I don't see why this is a problem, though. (I know you're not saying you have a problem with it.)

"Positions of power" = eh not really. "Positions of visibility" yes.

I think "positions of power" means onscreen: doctors, prime ministers, scientists, etc.

There was that black President in the last Rusty story...

That seems a bit paranoid to me. I'd imagine the producers just select the most capable and interesting actors available with little regard for ethnicity (as regards Who). 80% of the show takes place in the future – they've got the ability to explain away any casting decisions they wish to make ('that's what it's like, then!') so I'd imagine they have a more free hand to cast according to whims and whiles than those shows aiming for contemporary or historical accuracy.

Making the future Queen of England a black woman was inspired. Take that racist fanboys and Daily Mail readers!

Well, quite

Take that racist fanboys and Daily Mail readers!

thing is if it's done for that reason rather than remy's "the producers just select the most capable and interesting actors available with little regard for ethnicity" then the racist fanboys kind of have a point - that ethnicity comes above talent in casting.

Not that I think it's really the case - they weren't exactly pro-minority in having their white Rose leaving her stupid cowardly black boyfriend behind (though they eventually boosted his character to official Brave status before giving him the only other minority companion as a wife - cutting out all that inter-racial sex that racist fanboys might object to).

Grizz: Come to think of it, I saw a white judge on Law and Order last night.
Tracy: Oh yeah, it's back on! Get ready, son. All you've ever known is your affirmative action job and Queen Latifah CoverGirl commercials.

ugh, Onimo, i've been trying to pretend the whole martha-and-mickey-get-married-for-no-apparent-reason bullshit never happened :(

i do think Who makes something of an effort to have multi-ethnic casting, though I think some of that is a straight-up desire to represent the multiethnic reality of life in the UK today (and then, bad wolf like, spread that social norm throughout space and time)? I've said this elsewhere, but I don't think it's a coincidence that in Vampires in Venice the two lead black characters both verbally identified themselves as Venetian.

80% of the show takes place in the future – they've got the ability to explain away any casting decisions they wish to make ('that's what it's like, then!')

out of nine eps this year we've had three in the distant future and space, and two a mere 20 years in the future on earth.

ugh, Onimo, i've been trying to pretend the whole martha-and-mickey-get-married-for-no-apparent-reason bullshit never happened :(

It happened for a pretty simple reason; RTD likes incredibly pat, unjustified sappy endings. If you can find a copy of his book Damaged Goods from... 1997? you will find an incredibly brutal, terrifying story ruined by this type of cloying nonsense.

I don't think they cast Meera Syal because they specifically wanted an Asian woman in the role, they cast her because she was Meera Syal and a household name beloved of much of middle Britain.

80% of the show takes place in the future – they've got the ability to explain away any casting decisions they wish to make ('that's what it's like, then!'

out of nine eps this year we've had three in the distant future and space, and two a mere 20 years in the future on earth.

okay, doctor is from the far far future (or distant distant past) and from a crazy mixed up muddled world with time-fractures in every direction and b/c this is sci-fi basically everything leaps all over the place we can do any sort of racial casting we can imagine b/c the particularity & granularity of the stories are never meant to represent a documentary reality but individual experiences which allow for basically any thing.

Queen Liz was brilliantly acted though, so the racist baiting touch was just a nice bonus.

Not a classic, but I enjoyed that more than the first one. Glad it turned into allegory of fragile diplomacy rather than all out war, because the warrior Silurians were frankly rubbish. Still, poor Rory.

Not quite sure how the Doctor can stick an entire hand into the crack and survive, but I suppose we'll find out. The fragment of the Tardis was a great bit of foreshadowing though.

Really? I thought it was the first unambiguously bad episode this season -- such hackneyed allegory.

Not quite sure how the Doctor can stick an entire hand into the crack and survive

... timey wimey...

The fragment of the Tardis was a great bit of foreshadowing though.

Would be hilarious if we see the crack opened up next to the Tardis, and a hand in a tweed sleeve coming through it break off a piece of its sign.

Rory (and Mickey?) is sort of the mirror image of the Doctor, right? They're all nerd analogues, but where the Doctor is dashing and adventurous, the Rory/Mickey type is the agoraphobic and domesticated inverse image.

It was alright. I was hoping we'd get a flash forward to the Silurians and humans living together at the end - maybe they're saving that for next season.

I think there were germs of quite a few good ideas in this two-parter, but it would've taken a major re-write to raise it from passable to excellent.

I was really picking up on the Amy-hate during the episode. Then she did well with the Rory business and it's fine again.

Overall kind of weak (felt very Star Trek at points, but that might be a combo of brokering peace treaties and lizard people), and I hope next week's is okay even though historical figure eps never blow me out of the water.

Also Richard Curtis doesn't have a track record of writing stories about scary monsters.

oof, is next week's the Curtis one? hmm...

I was really picking up on the Amy-hate during the episode. Then she did well with the Rory business and it's fine again.

I also kind of love that middle-aged Felicia Day turned out to be the weak, spat-upon example of humanity, I am so tired of these kinds of characters who do horrible things but its okay because its for their family!

Anyone else doubt that Rory is gone forever?

oh yeah, definitely some magic wand business at the end of this season, no doubt.

Engagement ring safe in a time machine is doubtless key

Did we find out what happened to the missing corpses, by the way?

Assumed they were getting experimented on by Lizard Farnsworth.

nice to hear stephen moore again.

Dissection thread turned out to be stupid, introduced in the last 30 seconds of last week's ep as an arbitrary cliffhanger then dismissed again in the first 3 minutes of this week's, after which evil surgeon transforms into avuncular voice of reason. Maybe arbitrary cliffhangars are meant to be a throwback to old-who?

Couple of nice moments in this one but yeah, bit wonky overall. Wasn't happy to see badmum get away with it, to be honest. Rory death wasn't particularly affecting either, felt too obvious he'd be coming back later. Also worrying that him being erased from amy's memory might lead to more of her trying to pull the doc, which was funny once but could grate pretty quickly.

Bleh rubbish. Whole thing appears only to have existed to cause RoryDeath. Why the change in behaviour in the scientist? He was all HARHARHAR MUST VIVISECT (please to note, vivisection is what you do on live specimens, not dissection) FOR SHITS 'N' GIGGLES one minute then suddenly changes to a position where the Tennant Doctor would have rubbed his cheeks and gone OOOO I WUB YOU HYOOMUNS REPTILES. Didn't enjoy the return to Rusty STRONG WOMEN BEING STRONG FOR THEIR FAMILY BECAUSE FAMILY TRUMPS EVERYTHING territory either. Didn't understand the Toxic Gas hibernation system either - if you were having to go into hibernation because of some threat to your life, refusal to do so is rewarded with death? If you think you're going to die by not hibernating, then what kind of a threat is that? Or why didn't they just use the discs to get to the surface and avoid the gas? How were Meera Syal and Grandad Greenshoulder going to survive that gas and then get into hibernation, and how did they know they would even be able to use the system to do it? Wasn't Agressive Shouty Warrior Reptile put into hibernation at one point, only to reappear 30 seconds later?

Karen's worst episode as Amy yet, lowest point for me was when the camera panned past her as ASWR was transmitting to the telly in the bin in the church. Utterly reduced to a poor-quality zing device. Also, to any Cap'n-Save-An-Amys out there, it may benefit you to rewatch the sequence where she bangs on the door of the TARDIS post-RoryDeath after the Doctor has soniced it. ARTHUR IS THE ACTOR'S NAME, NOT THE CHARACTER'S.

Not sure next week looks like any improvement, and the week after is (I think) James Corden week...

Also, where were the explanations for either grave robbing or the blue grass? According to the plot, all the drilling was doing was cracking oxygen pockets.

Overall kind of weak (felt very Star Trek at points, but that might be a combo of brokering peace treaties and lizard people)

Even the music sounded very Star Trek. It was all very meh, except for maybe the last five minutes or so of the episode.

series 5 has reversed the tradition of the first two-parter kind of sucking and the second two-parter being better. this was super-boring and inconsistent and redundant. like, are these negotiations supposed to be inherently interesting to watch? because we already know they're going to fall to shit when they discover the dead lizard lady. but then the military leader started preemptively killing people before she even learned about her dead sister, so.

i'm really tired of amy at this point. i thought little amelia pond was wonderful, and i liked where they were going with the character in the first few episodes, but all that feels a million miles away. now it's all either sassy joeks or dead-boyfriend-sad with not a lot in between, and i don't think she pulls off either with total aplomb.

yeah, I wanted tiny Amelia Pond to go on adventures when watching Ep 1, let's have that next season when they hit the reset button on this time loop or bubble universe.

and I rly rly hate to be cap'n save-a-chibnall but

Why the change in behaviour in the scientist? He was all HARHARHAR MUST VIVISECT (please to note, vivisection is what you do on live specimens, not dissection) FOR SHITS 'N' GIGGLES one minute then

v true on vivisection, but from his perspective, he knew he could put people back together no problem, and was doing it for science

suddenly changes to a position where the Tennant Doctor would have rubbed his cheeks and gone OOOO I WUB YOU HYOOMUNS REPTILES.

Smith Doctor actually says "I rather love you!" One of many unwelcome callbacks to RTD-stylee, along with all the FAMILY FAMILY FAMILEEEEE, spend ten minutes hugging everyone stuff.

Didn't understand the Toxic Gas hibernation system either - if you were having to go into hibernation because of some threat to your life, refusal to do so is rewarded with death?

....er, yes? if you don't avoid the threat to your life, you die.

If you think you're going to die by not hibernating, then what kind of a threat is that?

it's a defence against infection, not a threat against anything. the infection is the threat to your life.

Or why didn't they just use the discs to get to the surface and avoid the gas?

Safer to go back to the cosy hibernation that's worked for millennia than to go to an alien culture you know nothing about!

How were Meera Syal and Grandad Greenshoulder going to survive that gas and then get into hibernation,

The room's locked. fumigation's in the tunnels.

and how did they know they would even be able to use the system to do it?

Wise Old Silurian either said it might, or didn't say it wouldn't

Wasn't Agressive Shouty Warrior Reptile put into hibernation at one point, only to reappear 30 seconds later?

I don't think so?

Also, to any Cap'n-Save-An-Amys out there, it may benefit you to rewatch the sequence where she bangs on the door of the TARDIS post-RoryDeath after the Doctor has soniced it. ARTHUR IS THE ACTOR'S NAME, NOT THE CHARACTER'S.

She says "Let me out, PLEASE let me out, I need to get to Rooory!" Gasping while crying, then breathing in again, doesn't = saying "Arthur!"

Another dumb dumb bit from the writer of 42: starting a 15-minute countdown 15 minutes before the end of the episode, playing a scene in real time, and saying "8 minutes left!" three minutes later.

also, I forget to say it every week, but fuck Murray Gold.

Anyone else doubt that Rory is gone forever?

Maybe they're still in the dream from the Dreamlord episode.

also those are some fucking lame warriors, who when given an order to shoot, stand around for 2 minutes while someone disarms them one by one by one. and don't know how to aim their own tongues.

Didn't enjoy the return to Rusty STRONG WOMEN BEING STRONG FOR THEIR FAMILY BECAUSE FAMILY TRUMPS EVERYTHING territory either.

I saw this more as mocking the faaaaaaambly stuff. It's the boneheaded insistence that family trumps all that almost leads to war, estranges son from mother (despite Grandad's pleas) and leaves humanity on its own for the next 1000 years.

(ended up as x-post so stet otm)

STRONG WOMEN BEING STRONG FOR THEIR FAMILY BECAUSE FAMILY TRUMPS EVERYTHING

But it was a take-down of this no? Like familyfamilyfamily is what really sends everything shitwards here. Felt like an explicit takedown or rebuild of the tedious RTD fallback family stuff. Sorta ok with it for this one, just thankful Amy's still effectively an orphan.

Thought this was ok, not great. Not too plot-holey really, and I can take a little bit of Star Trekky politics. Didn't mind that we knew the negotiations would be shot to shit - just added to the gloomy view of humans in this one, which I thought was its strongest suit - less of the thumb-in-the-scales 'aren't humans WONDERFUL', more of the 'really plz just stop killing shit for 5 min'.

No, familyfamilyfamily always did turn everything to shit or was the wrong decision in Rusty's ers, it just got given a free pass as understandable because it was familyfamilyfamily.

To go back to the earlier question about Toxic Gas Hibernation:

....er, yes? if you don't avoid the threat to your life, you die.

it's a defence against infection, not a threat against anything. the infection is the threat to your life.

It's a threat THEY put there. And it's not much protection against infection if you still have enough time to run into hibernation when you hear the warning signs they're about to start using toxic gas now, is it? "Everybody run to the hibernation tanks except those of you who think you've got a bit of a sniffle, you lot just stay here and get gassed to death without any protest or struggle please thank you."

Safer to go back to the cosy hibernation that's worked for millennia than to go to an alien culture you know nothing about!

Or, as those watching the episode might call it, the place you've just been negotiating to live in and have spend the whole story talking about going to and/or the place you've been going to already.

Didn't mind that we knew the negotiations would be shot to shit - just added to the gloomy view of humans in this one

yeah, this is dramatic irony – something old who used to be big on, pre rusty era

That said: I didn't react to this episode as strongly as the rest of you. The only scenes that really bothered me were

1) the abortive vivisection
2) rory's dying words. for godssakes, just let him kick the bucket. either he'll be back (ehh) or he won't (ehh) but the impact of his death was mitigated by his last gasping platitudes.
3) the rushed negotiations. if more had been done to convey lengthiness, rigor, or great debate i would have been convinced of the necessity of these scenes. but Amy's bored-ass slouching on the table only undermined the seriousness of the goal and highlighted the character's immaturity (though this, i wonder, might not be out of place if timey-wimeyness and Amelia are somehow implicated)
4) the stupid sonic screwdriver/gunplay crap

http://imgur.com/wUsp3.gif

The ending was great (TARDIS-through-crack, not Rory's Best Bits in dream sequence flashback that was horrible), the rest not so much.

Really wanted to punch Amy in the face for being terrible zingmonster all the way through ("Clingy much?"), but DeadRory seemed to bring her back round again, though now she's forgotten him, it'll all be shite again.

haven't seen any of this series but really not getting the amy-hate

I don't get it either. Maybe her prettiness is affecting my judgment.

She's annoying as fuck and doesn't do anything except zing and sass about, even in mortal danger. And she's mean to lovely (dead) Rory.

Which of the classic serials on YouTube are worth watching?

http://www.youtube.com/show?p=Ps0e32nFzs0&s=1

I've seen Sensorites, Krotons and Carnival of Monsters.

Androzani probably the best of those. Twin Dilemma for lolz only. Mandragora also good, and I quite like Full Circle.