Rolling Teenpop 2007 Thread

A bad hook isn't a hook at all.

Sure it is! "I have this stupid fucking song stuck in my head and now I want to kill myself" = bad hook, still a hook. But these aren't bad hooks, they're just not Max/Luke hooks. (Everything looks a little rough around the edges compared to a friggin' Max Martin hook, but these songs are a little rough around the edges by any standard.)

I understand that not everyone necessarily likes it, and it very well might bug the hell outta Popjustice, but what I'm sensing is that a lot of the reviews of the album so far aren't trying to see it for what it is...the "no hooks" charge doesn't really stick for me, not so much because I think there are hooks (and I do; in fact, plenty of them aren't THAT far removed from Breakaway, "Addicted" and "Hear Me" especially..."Haunted" is basically a direct descendant and it's the least interesting of the three or four most intense rock tracks) but because I feel like there's something about the charge that's to some extent ignoring what the album is trying (really really hard) to be. How successful it is as what (I think) it is, a Big Huge Serious Rock Album, is arguable. The most "pop" tracks are actually what end up mucking things up a little.

" "I have this stupid fucking song stuck in my head and now I want to kill myself" = bad hook, still a hook."

I disagree; those are good hooks. Good hooks stick with you, bad hooks (like those on My December), fall out of your head in minute.

I was fortunate enough to enjoy a series of long meetings with Clive back when he was at Arista.

He loves playing songs and...well, reacting to them, and then seeing what his audience thinks of his reaction. If only to explain in fascinating detail why his audience is wrong.

No matter--he is indeed a genius at spotting hits, but I think there's a limitation in his variety of genius.

He knew I favored this power pop band and played me their newest song. I loved it--but it was a departure from their hit. Not a huge one, but still, a slight left turn.

Clive was genuinely upset about this. Sad. He liked it, understood it, but truly thought it wasn't a hit--or rather, thought it wasn't a hit when considered through the filter in his head he'd created to sift through this group's work. There were other instances of this when he played me other songs...a combination of a desire to see his artists succeed tempered with a certain anxiety about how they did it--if they strayed too far from his vision of them.

I think "Hole" is brilliant. But shit--there's what, two guitars, a mono-voice synth, bass, drums, two Kellys and no harmonies? Plus the guitar sounds like it was played through a ripped-speaker Fender Bassman?

That's a long, long way from the Kelly of uber-processed past. Clive would have a cow. Well, I guess he did.

I think authenticity actually matters with Clarkson--the young woman who sang SUBG and so on, that was the Clarkson of then. And "Hole" is her now. Asking her to do another "Behind These Hazel Eyes" would be like asking Freddie Mercury to do another "Killer Queen" after the stuff on "Hot Space". That's what I mean by authentic--she'd have to ape past editions of herself, which just doesn't seem her deal and now she's crossed this Rubicon, I don't think she will, can, or considering her financials, needs to go back.

But, filter or not, Never Again wasn't a hit. And it was seemingly the most radio-friendly song on the album. It had a slick video too, and Kelly surely has a spectacular Q rating. Clive didn't hear hits on the album for a good reason; the songs aren't catchy.

the criticism i've seen of 'never again' is that it's too "dark" and too "bitter" rather than lacking in hooks (which it assuredly is not)

popjustice also hates the kelly rowland album! wrong wrong wrong

"Never Again" was a brave gamble. It counted on a vocal disonanace chorus that you can't hum along with as a sort of abstract hook.

Maybe Clakson's doing a P!nk, going from her own version of P!nk's arc from a confection like Mizaundastood to the challange of Try This to I'm Not Dead's brilliant summation.

But I kinda doubt it. Clarkson's smart, but P!nk is the most ridiculously savvy popster in the US, like an American Jarvis Crocker.

*applauds*

oh, and while I'm logged in, here's some more Insomniatic anticipation fodder:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/music/la-et-aly23jun23,1,4624656.story?coll=la-entnews-music&ctrack=2&cset=true

Yeah, Kelly's in the unique position where she doesn't need to be that savvy -- she can make serious demands. P!nk is in that position, too, but it took her longer to get there. I think Kelly very well might be savvy (and P!nk can be abrasive and bull-headed and flat-out embarrassing some of the time, though I probably would put her and Kelly in the same league), but she's accelerated the P!nk "maturation" process considerably so that she doesn't have to ingratiate herself with what might seem to be calculated "moves"(maybe largely thanks to Pink and co., really. Also thanks to the fact that American Idol simultaneously made her a "pop tart" and a populist favorite -- she's of the people, etc., so you don't get as much ridiculous Britney-style corporate baggage hung on her, even though she's working in the same system).

"As much baggage" being relative to, e.g., Britney or maybe Ashlee. Certainly there are plenty of Kelly haters out there.

Also, duh, I totally skipped "Never Again"! Which is also a three-note hook that lands hard on the highest note -- a D, which ties it for highest note along with "Hole" and "Haunted." Except in "Never Again" Kelly does a few fake-outs and goes to the lower D, jumps down an octave semi-ominously, whereas in the other two it's all high D all the time.

And HOLY CRAP she hits a G-flat in both "Sober" and "Haunted."

Someone better tell Britney quick so she can whip up another poll!

Is it true you requested [Hilary Duff for War, Inc.]?

John Cusack: Yep. Well, the part was ... she played a pop idol from central Asia. So, she was like a Hilary — but not Hilary, because Hilary is so classy — but like a real, and I won't name names, but a real slutty pop star. ... Hilary is the opposite of that, of course. I think for her to play that, or to parody that, was really great.

What's the biggest misconception [of her]?

John: I think probably people wouldn't know how talented she is. I mean, she's a great actress. I just spent the entire fall with her and she was a revelation every day. I don't think people know that yet, but they're gonna.

Damn, Tata Young is Southeast Asia :(

From the rolling metal thread (I have more to say about this album, some of which I said in a review of it I wrote for work this week, and I have more to say about the lyric of "Blush" in particular, which I didn't say in the review and which I'll get around to someday, perhaps even here, but not right now):

the most metal (but not necessarily the best, though they're up there) songs on the GREAT new Aly & AJ album are "Bullseye" (which gets compared to the Runaways in their press release and doesn't really sound like the Runaways per se' but is hooky and punchy enough that I don't mind), "Like It Or Leave It" (which gets its riff from Stone Temple Pilots), and "Insomniatic" (which gets its riff from "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and other parts of its melody from "Come As You Are"), I think. Take it or leave it. (Didn't hear the Kelly Clarkson yet.)
-- xhuxk, Sunday, July 1, 2007 1:16 PM (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

...Oops, Aly & AJ's STP tribute is "If I Could Have You Back," NOT the far more Europop-burbling "Like It Or Leave It" (track # 9 not #5 on my advance, though my advance also has "Blush" on it which is not on the actual album apparently, so I'm not sure what that does for track order otherwise.)

-- xhuxk, Sunday, July 1, 2007 1:37 PM (4 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

Oooookay, time to spend all day finding this on the internet. I mean, uh, getting a promo of it. Yeah.

Believe me, I've been trying all week. So far, only come across an 8MB sampler.

Yeah, just found that, this sounds very promising but 30 secs ain't enough, obv. (did actually contact their promo person, too).

On "Closure," it sounds like they're saying "I'm getting closer, closer to Pearl Jam..."

"Did it hurt? Yes it hurt, but not as much as I thought it would..."

Best line in that song:

"I used to wear your shirt to bed/Now it's in the trash instead."

btw dabug, which were the (few) songs you rated on Hannah2/Miley?

I've only heard the Meet Miley disc but I thought there were three good songs on that: "East Northumberland High", "See You Again" and "Start All Over" (OK the last of those is only good in a dance-around-yr-bedroom kinda way, but still).

Hmm, def the first track on the Hannah CD, "Bigger Than Us," and "See You Again" registered as good (I might be using this incorrectly, but I think that's the closest to BOSH that Miley gets) from Meet Miley. "ENH" should and easily coulda been about 20x better (in fact, it starts kind of like a Hold Steady track or something!), though it's better than most of the other tracks. (Although listening to it again, it benefits from being removed from its context and maybe I underrated how good the few good tracks are. But damn it's tedious to listen to all the way through...I do hope they do an ultra-early Best Of and stick some of the good tracks together.)

Heck, I should listen to this thing again..."Life's What You Make It" is good, too, but after that the OST falls apart and doesn't recover, even the one that by all rights should be awesome, "Rock Star," which is merely pretty good. She's doing really interesting things with harmonies, but the energy just doesn't hold up. Even the good songs feel pretty limp.

There's a bit more country sound in her voice in the first verse of "Good & Broken," which is also pretty good, OK rock track, but I actually think she'd do better to do more straight-up rock sound, better backing band, less Disney-pop cheese overall because she just isn't going all-out on the cheese. This is admittedly about the closest you're probably going to get this year to c. 2000 Radio Disney kiddie pop, but she's not really selling it like that (as she did better on the last one); might as well hook her up with some rock producers who can maybe help her into countrier territory, I want more affectation from her because otherwise her voice is just like nothing.

Hm, I reverse my position on "East Northhumberland High," it's really good. Could be 5x better, but not 20x.

There is a lot of potential in her voice, I think. Tho' maybe that's down to the fact that I find her accent strange (occasionally she threatens to stray into Dick van Dyke in Mary Poppins territory!)

No, it's not just the accent. It was the laugh in her voice in "Best of Both Worlds" last year that made me sit up and take notice. The problem on these newest records is that the vocal performances often feel by-the-numbers, she isn't selling herself or the song.

I like the Hannah Montana disc ok. It's pretty much on the same level as the first disc, in my opinion, apart from "If We Were A Movie", which reached OMG WTF levels of awesomeness and was my number 1 song of 2006.

Princess Die's 46th Bday memorial concert, broadcast apparently uncut (except for bleeps of Kanye,on "Diamonds," which he said the Princes requested; bleeps which were jeered by Ricky Gervais, along the lines of "Yeah, these Princes have only been in the Army, sure they never heard such language before"). Great sound, and the mic effects seemed (as they should *seem*) like launching pads, not filters or buffers, for clear, flashy, powerful voices, young and old Best performances I've heard from Fergie, Natasha Bedingfield, Lilly Taylor,Joss Stone (who's usually meh, but did a great re-arrangement of "Under Pressure; was good guest in Tom Jones's set, which also sported Joe Perry). And, also no slave to EFX was Nelly Furtado, even on the usually claustrophobic Timbaland-produced stuff, and "I'm Like A Bird," slowed, eased into a hip hop beat like I've rarely heard her do it. Take That was good too, didn't know they pop-rocked like that (sure were a lot of ever-ready guitars all through this concert, as well as ever-ready r&b performers, though the only black frontmen were rap: N.E.R.D., who sounded a bit thin, and wasn't the point of Neptunes as N.E.R.D. to rock? And Kanye, who was running and rapping so fast, the words were a blur, except to the bleepers, of course).

speaking of pop-rock guys and ready guitar,another good man band was announced as either, "It's Awesome" or "It's Orson."

First Hannah Montana impression: "See You Again", "One in a Million", "East Northumberland High", "Start All Over", and "We Got the Party" strike me as good as most of her other material. "Nobody's Perfect" has really grown on me as well. "See You Again" is definitely the best track. "Old Blue Jeans", "Make Some Noise", "G.N.O", "Let's Dance" are notably bad. 5/10.

First Paramore impression: This album (Riot) is really good! This year's Meg and Dia! Good singing, catchy melodies, nice guitar/drums, probably in my top 10 of the year to this point, but saying any more than that will require additional listens (haven't really paid attention to the lyrics, etc. at this point).

I agree that the new Hannah Montana album has significantly less personality than the previous, tho.

My friend Jamie Rake tells me:

Saw BarlowGirl in concert in '04, and they reminded me some of The Runaways or The Donnas, and their second album has moments that put me in mind of Hole.

Hannah Montana/Miley Cyrus - Mostly Wanted

1. Best of Both Worlds
2. East Northhumberland High
3. I Got Nerve
4. If We Were a Movie
5. See You Again
6. Bigger Than Us
7. Just Like You
8. Who Said
9. Life's What You Make It
10. Rock Star
11. Good & Broken
12. This Is the Life
13. Start All Over

...dang, couldn't even get it to 45 minutes. Suggestions/additions/subtractions, or should I just start sending these out? I think the sequencing is pretty good so don't screw it up!

Stats: 6/13 Hannah Montana OST 1, 3/13 Hannah Montana OST 2, 4/13 Meet Miley Cyrus. Totally forgot the first OST was like 40% recycled from other Hollywood artists -- so maybe Matt A.'s percentage is about right.

Aly & AJ myspace:

"Insomniatic/ In-som-ne-a-tic/, adjective, Latin insomnis sleepless, in + somnus sleep 1. The state of mind where one becomes addicted to the deprivation of sleep caused by an epic revelation of joy."

BarlowGirl and others just played the annual Creation Festival, whose Wikipedia article has this interesting description:

The festivals feature popular Christian rock, contemporary, and worship music, a fringe stage (mostly for newer and harder Rock bands), guest speakers, public baptisms, communion, fireworks, extreme sports, and a candlelight service. The festival is a member of the Christian Festival Association.

I wonder if they have Extreme Baptisms!!

Myspace for Samantha Moore here: http://www.myspace.com/samanthamooremusic

Features the original version of Miley's "East Northumberland High", as well as a few others. Pretty good.

Skye Sweetnam's album will be mastered by the end of the month with a goal to release it in Canada in the next few months. No word on a date or an American release yet.

Er, US release.

Jimmy Draper makes my day twice with two choice magazine quotes, first re: Mandy Moore, second re: Avril:

From Blender:
Moore makes a big deal of trying to keep the album's villain a mystery — after all, she dated tennis hottie Andy Roddick, too — but it's clear that she doesn't harbor a lot of fondness for the Scrubs star. When asked if Braff's famously indie taste in music had influenced her, she scrunches up her face and simulates barfing.

From Performing Songwriter Mag:

PS mag: We just did an article with Avril Lavigne, with whom you wrote with ...

Chantal: I find it funny that it's in Performing Songwriter. A mean, Avril, songwriter? Avril doesn't really sit down and write songs by herself or anything. Avril will cross the ethical line and no one says anything. That's why I'll never work with her again. I sent her a song two years ago called "Contagious," and I just saw the tracklisting to this album and there's a song called "Contagious" on it-- and my name's not on it. What do you do with that?

PS mag: Call the lawyers?

Chantal: See, I won't do that. I'll just tell you. Art should not be subject to that kind of controversy. Art should be pure. In my head it is, anyway.

OK, OK, Insomniatic available for free (legally!) via MTV's "The Leak"...you can listen in full here: http://www.mtv.com/music/the_leak/aly_and_aj/insomniatic/#

Though I haven't had the chance to listen to it myself.

link to an illegal d/l option, you ain't seen me, right?

I suspect that neither Aly nor A.J. would make as tumultuous an ex-girlfriend as Kelly Clarkson would.

Initial reaction to the MTV stream: bright pop-rock w/ dance touches, not a bad tune on the album, some full-fledged breakup songs and at least one (other) potential makeup song, but sorrow is no impediment to happy tunesmith and joyous wordplay. Epitome of this may be "Division," where the fellow graduates from their relationship by using division - lots of analogy material there, both mathematical and relationship-diploma-after-party-ish. On first listen nothing hits with the gut punch of "Rush" or "Protecting Me" or "Not This Year," though high quality all through might make it hard for anything to stand out. I was expecting and wanting more anguish - yet the two tracks that reach me right away with their passion do so by going quiet not dark: "Silence" and "I'm Here." Excellent on its own terms even if they're not quite the terms I was hoping for. Gobs of good songs.

So far in 2007:

1. Lloyd f. Lil Wayne "You"
2. Ashley Tisdale "Not Like That"
3. JoJo "Anything"
4. Yung Berg "Sexy Lady"
5. Linda Sundblad "Lose You"
6. Keak Da Sneak "That Go"
7. Natasha "Hey Hey Hey"
8. Rihanna f. Jay-Z "Umbrella" (also the remix w/ Lil Mama)
9. Dragonette "I Get Around"
10. Kelly Clarkson "Never Again"

1. Aly & A.J. Insomniatic
2. Miranda Lambert Crazy Ex-Girlfriend
3. A-Trak Dirty South Dance
4. Jordan Pruitt No Ordinary Girl
5. Kelly Clarkson My December

"You didn't ask me for my number?/Wait! You didn't ask me for my number. Humph/I like the fact that you didn't ask that/'Cause you've already got my number/Huh!"

Teena Marie to thread.

"I used to wear your shirt to bed/Now it's in the trash instead."

(Ashlee Simpson to thread.)

Ha, I wrote about this extensively over at my blog as a track by track. The only one (in the sober light of morning) that I was flat-out wrong about was "Silence," which is great.

"You didn't ask me for my number etc." is one of my favorite musical moments in 2007. "Bullseye" is brilliant. But this album is a B+/A- coasting effort from students who can either get a C- (for being totally overbearing and inconsistent but making like one or two brilliant, emotionally resonant points) or an A. "Rush" and "Not This Year" and "Sticks and Stones" and "I Am One of Them" are what I want from them -- I mean, they're probably brilliant, they can write killer hooks, but for chrissakes they've singlehandedly caused me more agitation in my stomach than any other artist I can even think of, including Kelly. And now they're flirting with me (very well) and I'm PISSED OFF AT THEM.

Still a good album, tho.

Also, Frank, you forgot the total HOWLER in "Division": "the sum will be different/ by using division." When of course, if they'd gone to a public school like me they'd know that the QUOTIENT will be different. (NB, I just googled it and they say it's "song," not "sum." But I think it's "sum." And if it's "song" it's just a useless line, as opposed to a uniquely howl-worthy one.)