The dreaded Avant-Garde thread

however, my only argument to that is avant-garde filmmaking is so diverse that it's hard to encapsulate any "rules" or guidelines to be broken, because they're seldom proscribed. much of what happens in the avant-garde exists underground or anonymously. i'm not saying there aren't "popularized" elements that add to a common aesthetic at certain periods of time, but the avant-garde film world is much less stagnant & likely to jump onto stylistic/content bandwagons because something is popular. And most (yet not all) creators of avant-garde film have no interest in a nihilistic "destroy convention for the sake of destroying convention". It's an aspect, but i think it has more to do with attempting to create something that is intensely personal in a ways, and not just a desire to do something "different." although there's nothing wrong in my mind with making a conscious attempt to create something completely original that changes the way someone views their world.

**jay puts his feet up, twiddles his thumbs & whistles a tune**

in opposition to this, then, are films that value a perpetual present tense - a dream logic in which expectation is ellided and underminded. much of brakhage's work might fall into this category, as could "un chien andalou" or deren's "meshes of the afternoon". i guess i would argue that warhol's "empire" is (in this way) similar to these films as well - it shows time unfolding but reists the establishment of expectation that's inherent in narrative film.

obviously avant-garde film can't be conveniently split into this either/or dichotomy (there are many other ways in which "empire" seems much more akin to "wavelength" then to anything by deren or brakhage) but i've found michelson's thoughts on these issues to be useful.

considering how strongly brakhage abhorred warhol's studies in minimalism this might well be the case. however, i'm surprised by how often i use the names "brakhage" and "warhol" in the same sentence, so there obviously are connections in their work.

great analysis, spectatorbird. i think it's an interesting approach to the interrelation between narrative and time.

it's such a sad thing that cinematic storytelling and general western perspectives of "the narrative" are so narrowly defined--for thousand of years, mankind told stories without words. somehow, most people forgot how to do that. i don't want to sound pretentious, but maybe there is some kind of link between AG storytelling and ancient methods of storytelling like cave paintings, etc. there are just so many ways to communicate, and i think commercial film only focuses on the simplest ways sometimes (not that speech is simple, but, you know what i mean...)

One interesting difference among some of these musicians, however, is whether sampling is employed with (what I'll call) visible or invisible seams. Because the Books use obviously pre-recorded vocal snippets amidst organic instruments, the seams are plainly visible. With DJ Shadow and the Avalanches on the other hand, unless they're using recognizable samples (like Bjork or Madonna, respectively), you might not necessarily know those sounds came from other records. (Maybe he played that beat himself?)

Which raises an interesting question: Is it possible to ever created an all-sample film and have the seams not be visible? What might this look like?

I currently have a book on order from Amazon Canada called "Recycled Images: The Art and Politics" which is all about found footage filmmaking. When I get it I'll give my "book report".

Some other books on experimental filmmaking that I can recommend are:

"A History of Experimental Film and Video" by A.L. Rees
"Visionary Film" by P. Adams Sitney (the bible of AG film)
"Essential Brakhage: Selected Writings on Filmmaking" by Stan Brakhage (available at www.mcphersonco.com--wonderful stuff).

also, i think I've mentioned it before, but anyone seriously interested in AG/Experimental should join the Frameworks listserv.

all of those titles are great. i would add:

"allegories of cinema" by david e. james (out of print but well worth tracking down)

"the film culture reader" ed. by sitney

http://www.hi-beam.net/fw/index.html

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0410/carr.php

a mess indeed, and an important lesson for any artist.

Oh, and among other things, caught Stan van der Beek's wonderful short Science Friction. Very obviously one of the biggest influences on Terry Gilliam's Monty Python animation.

"Decasia" was just released on DVD this year, and an art museum in San Francisco released several of Bruce Conner's films on DVD (including the wonderful "Looking For Mushrooms").

For newer experimental work, try www.peripheralproduce.com and www.microcinema.com. Experimental filmmakers (and former professor of your's truly) sells his works on DVD, including his recent feature length experimental work "Rubicon", on his website--www.berserker-rage.com. Caveh Zahedi (if you consider him "experimental", which I do) also sells his films on DVD & VHS at www.cavehzahedi.com.

Outside of that, you can get many great works by experimental directors like Maya Deren, Stan Brakhage, Len Lye, etc. for www.facets.org. www.re-voir.com is a fantastic site for buying experimental VHS. Although their PAL collection is much larger, you can still buy films by Jonas Mekas, Stan Vanderbeek, Brakhage, Michael Sno, Paul Sharits, Len Lye, Ken Jacobs, etc. in NTSC format. One of my favorites is www.vdb.org, the Video Data Bank. They are the exclusive sellers of the early works of Jem Cohen, one of my favorite filmmakers. Don't be daunted by the high "rental" prices--they are for institutions and public screenings. While it is still pricey, VDB will sell almost any of their titles for $30 on VHS for home personal use (to keep, not a rental).

Hope this helps. If anyone knows of any other places I haven't mentioned, I would love to know about them. It's a shame that experimental/avant-garde cinema is so difficult to come by, especially for those of use who don't live in a big city.

There is a film that attempted this, but I can't remember the name. They have it at my local video store, so I'll find out the next time I'm there.

http://www.mysticfire.com/index.html?cart=110533036712182185

(as an aside, EVERYONE should see the grandmother. NOW.)

and i heard un chien andalou and l'age d'or finally got the dvd treatment recently and if that's true (not o

if that's true (not bothering to check), i'd imagine kino's responsible for that, too.

Sup3r H@ppy Fun has the Lynch shorts (and Eraserhead) available for ~1/4 of the Lynch.com price if you don't mind DVD-R.

so who's seen VENOM AND ETERNITY?

http://anthologyfilmarchives.org/film_screenings/calendar?view=list&month=07&year=2015#showing-44511