Coppola's _The Conversation

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Although I hesitate to call The Conversation either Coppola or Hackman's greatest film by a "long shot" (folks both Godfather flicks and The French Connection are pretty damn good) it is their best film and one of maybe the ten greatest films of all time. Fantastic acting. Creative camera work. Tight plotting. Movie has everything. I've never found (in the five or so times I've watched it) the flick anything less than fascinating. I am truly baffled by the complaints I hear about the movie's pacing, it seems perfectly in tune with the movie's subject to me. In addition, fantastic David Shire score (not quite the equal of Taking of Pelham 1 2 3, but damn close). Also inspired a pretty cool Kevin Martin/DJ Vadim album called Tapping the Conversation.

― Alex Magid, Tuesday, 5 February 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

p.s. i love the lame "party" after the tradeshow! it's like a john cassavetes version of new wave. any ideas on this scene? why it's in there? the "love interest"?

Coppola's commentary comes through again! I don't recall all the exact details, but he said he was building off the theme of the convention and how with conventions there's usually a chance for people who, say, haven't seen each other for a year to let their hair down, go do something 'crazy,' stuff like that. Which is true enough, based on my one or two English lit academic conference experiences. So it's there for a reason, as well as advancing specific plot points [more details about Caul's previous case that has left him so guilt-ridden, the eventual theft of the tape] and outlining Caul's character some more -- at once private and open, swinging from complete control to semi- tearful confession to manic showoff and back again. That sudden tight camera shot when he realizes he's been bugged with the pen while off- screen you can hear laughter and merriment from the other partygoers = brilliant.

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 5 February 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Mark - arguing that The Conversation is not deep is interesting. Especially since the central theme of the film is depth - literal depth (I can't think of many other films so centrally concerned with precisely conveying space, distance and proximity) and figurative depth(could be defined as layers of meaning?): It's all about the individual and privacy, our own ability to truly know another person, whether trying to know another more than they want us to is potentially dangerous, being decieved. Whether FFC had anything deep to say about these issues is debatable, I guess. Didn't seem shallow to me.

― fritz, Tuesday, 5 February 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

figurative depth = layers of meaning = this is what it doesn't have, cuz it confuses political conspiracy with metaphysical unknowability

i think it's a terrific film about how a certain kind of smart person turns into a jerky mcjerk idiot — which i don't think is a sepcially deep theme, tho i do think it's a good one — that THINKS it's a revelatory film about THE POLITICS OF HOW WE ALL CANNOT UNDERSTAND ONE ANOTHER EVERYTHING IS AMBIGUITY and DECEPTION BLAH BLAH. You're right abt use of sound, depth, everything in terms of fab physical sensual experience; it's as watchable as either godfather — and even more confused.

(Blow-up btw I think is garbage. Antonioni is a four-star clown.)

Basically I think deep is a TRAP!! And FFC fell for it like the cokehead megalomaniac he was heh.

I really really wanted to be able to big up Bram Stoker's Dracula, but k-blimey o dear.

― mark s, Tuesday, 5 February 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

excellent points, mr. sinker, but I like the internal confusion of political conspiracy and metaphysical blah blah.

blow-up is a stinker. fucking mimes! led zeppelin jr's cameo was good though.

― fritz, Wednesday, 6 February 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

Hmm. Revive. (As I mentioned on the Verhoeven thread I revived, bits of Turkish Delight reminded me, rather obliquely, of The Conversation.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 16 September 2005 04:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

blow-up is a stinker. fucking mimes! led zeppelin jr's cameo was good though.

You should be duct-taped to a fire-hydrant favored by weak-bladdered dogs and forced to watch "Booty Call" until your eyes bleed, you slack-jawed heretic.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 16 September 2005 05:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

i hated blow-up the first time i saw it but i saw it again a few months ago and really enjoyed it. i'm not sure it's "deep" or anything, but probably no other film captured that whole swinging london ambience as well. and the mimes were hilarious!

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 16 September 2005 05:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

turkish delight is a wild one

― s1ocki (slutsky), Friday, 16 September 2005 06:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

seeing this flick right after finally reading The Shining all the way thru clued me into something: why the guy's name is Caul. Infants born with cauls were said to have either pre-cog or clarivoyant abilities.

this explains the "adjoining hotel rooms" visions, i guess.

according to IMDB, his name was meant to be "Call", but homynyms & Freudien slips are funny, ain't they?

― kingfish superman ice cream (kingfish 2.0), Friday, 16 September 2005 06:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

I love this movie to bits. I was hellah shocked when I showed it to my students and they found it dull and slow. I'd say that the idea of a sexually repressed 40 year old lead is just harder and harder for a mass culture audience to comprehend- but then lookit "The 40 Year Old Virgin" fer cryin' out loud. Anyway, Murch's totally killer sound work is dazzling. I heard him give a lecture and when people asked him how he made that signature "Conversation" burble noise he just said " a modular synth" but didn't say which one or what the patch was doing.

― Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Friday, 16 September 2005 06:36 (7 years ago) Permalink

oh those mass-culture audiences!

― N_RQ, Friday, 16 September 2005 09:02 (7 years ago) Permalink

I was hellah shocked when I showed it to my students and they found it dull and slow.

Michael Bay did more harm than he'll ever know.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 16 September 2005 12:58 (7 years ago) Permalink

oh for god's sake, coppola is better in corman mode than antoioni mode. it's not michael bay's fault that 'the conversation' is a bit dull.

― N_RQ, Friday, 16 September 2005 12:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

if a shot = an idea, the more shots you have the cleverer your film is.

― N_RQ, Friday, 16 September 2005 13:06 (7 years ago) Permalink

Are you trying to say that The Conversation isn't clever (which is WRONG), or are you just poking @ Ned's Michael Bay shoutout (which shd probably be a shout-out to Tony Scott, if you're going to disparage anyone for contributing to short-attention spans, or phear of sexually inadequate middle-aged men, or boobies).

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 16 September 2005 13:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

'the conversation' is more interesting as lonely-guy film than film of ideas. i think the slowness is just frank aiming for 'serious auteur' art-movieness.

― N_RQ, Friday, 16 September 2005 13:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

which shd probably be a shout-out to Tony Scott

Hmm, true. Less a shout out than a beery fart, likely enough.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 16 September 2005 13:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

Or, you know, to milk everything possible out of Caul's burgeoning paranoia while establishing some sense of quotidian inertial verite. (Or boobies.)

(xpost)

― David R. (popshots75`), Friday, 16 September 2005 13:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

DePalma improved on it with Blow Out.

It's pretty good but no classic; haven't seen it in awhile, but the church confession scene particularly annoyed me. SEE, HE'S FULL OF INARTICULATE GUILT.

I prefer Tucker: The Man and His Dream.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 16 September 2005 13:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

theoretically i prefer 'tucker' but OH NO NO NO NO.

― N_RQ, Friday, 16 September 2005 13:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 16 September 2005 13:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

watching enemy of the state--solid fuckin flick, holds up well

― rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Sunday, 7 June 2009 22:47 (4 years ago) Permalink

8 months pass...

i think the slowness is just frank aiming for 'serious auteur' art-movieness.

This is a deeply irritating statement, but never mind.

― Freedom, Thursday, 11 February 2010 12:06 (3 years ago) Permalink

ive probably mellowed in the intervening seven years (dats a pretty typical ilx thing to say, c. 2003), but it's not my favourite failure-of-communication movie. probably should give it another go, since i haven't seen it since ooh 1998.

watching enemy of the state--solid fuckin flick, holds up well

― rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Sunday, June 7, 2009 11:47 PM (8 months ago) Bookmark

^^^ also kind of an ilx thing to say. don't really agree with this tho.

― V-E-R-Y (history mayne), Thursday, 11 February 2010 12:08 (3 years ago) Permalink

best eugene hackman movie

― chris nibbs (cozen), Thursday, 11 February 2010 12:10 (3 years ago) Permalink

yeah. great haskell wexler opening shot.

― V-E-R-Y (history mayne), Thursday, 11 February 2010 12:14 (3 years ago) Permalink

remember this as wonderful, kind of afraid to go back to be honest. lotta films like that from the student days, though.

― strongohulkingtonsghost, Thursday, 11 February 2010 12:15 (3 years ago) Permalink

i still prefer 'blow up' but maybe it's because im a londoner.

― V-E-R-Y (history mayne), Thursday, 11 February 2010 12:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

kingston-upon-thames is in london right?

― V-E-R-Y (history mayne), Thursday, 11 February 2010 12:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

blow-up has way more hotter chicks that's for sure!

― da Wesley CRUSHER (latebloomer), Thursday, 11 February 2010 17:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

huh I guess I should see this eh

― I won't vote for you unless you acknowledge my magic pony (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 17:23 (3 years ago) Permalink

blow-up has way more hotter chicks that's for sure!
this is true, but young teri garr in the conversation ain't bad.
love Harrison Ford in this. He shoud be more like this in other movies.

― tylerw, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 18:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

yes!

― fuckin' lame, bros (latebloomer), Wednesday, 14 April 2010 09:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

he is in the movie star bizness, no characters plz

― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 14 April 2010 11:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

very ILX of everyone above to be so allergic to something "deep."

anyway, aside from all that, i think what will stick with me from this movie is yes the editing but also some lovely moments--that strange slow swooping movement the camera makes (i think) three times as Hackman gives that monologue to the blond woman in the green dress. and him riding the subway alone with the recurrent musical theme.

― ryan, Thursday, 2 June 2011 05:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

this flick owns

― in no way more ancient than fucking space (latebloomer), Thursday, 2 June 2011 05:55 (2 years ago) Permalink

11 months pass...

Seeing it (again) tonight as part of the Toronto Jewish Film Festival. I was baffled too...Coppola? No, don't think so, and Harry Caul's a devout Catholic. It's David Shire, the composer, who'll be talking and performing afterwards.

― clemenza, Sunday, 6 May 2012 12:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

Well, I guess the score is quite central to it, but yeah, a tad tenuous.

― Freedom, Monday, 7 May 2012 10:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

He was great--lots of stories, and he sat and played The Conversation's main theme. Didn't even clue into the fact he was Talia Shire's husband, nor did I realize that he did the piano work on Zodiac (hired because Fincher had The Conversation in mind), and that it's him playing overtop that amazing overhead Library-of-Congress shot in All the President's Men.

― clemenza, Monday, 7 May 2012 11:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

interesting stuff here from an interview with Terri Garr http://www.avclub.com/articles/teri-garr,2390/

― piscesx, Monday, 7 May 2012 11:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

man, that's a great interview. thanks, piscesx.

― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Monday, 7 May 2012 15:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

They're showing this at a beer theater in Portland in the next few weeks. Should be good.

― Choad of Choad Hall (kingfish), Monday, 7 May 2012 15:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

weird, just watched this for the first time a couple weeks ago

― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 16:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

like it? i think it's kind of the perfect 70s movie.

― tylerw, Monday, 7 May 2012 16:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah def dug it. It does encapsulate a lot of different 70s tropes in a great way

― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Monday, 7 May 2012 16:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

One thing I learned last night that surprised me was that Hackman played all his saxophone parts himself. Coppola would be after him to go over lines, and he'd be off in a corner practising B-flat scales.

I'm tempted to say that nobody has ever so completely disappeared into a role as Hackman does here, but thinking about it, Hackman's impish humour does surface in some of his banter with Allen Garfield.

― clemenza, Monday, 7 May 2012 17:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

Can't prove a thing, nor does it matter, but David Shire's score is to my ears deeply indebted to Emahoy Tsege-Maryam Guèbrou:

― poxen, Monday, 7 May 2012 17:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

I can hear some similarity--that's before '74, I assume? He said his main inspiration was a late-night DJ he used to listen to who'd accompany himself on piano underneath his patter. I asked him in the Q&A if there was any Scott Joplin influence, because I always thought I heard some of The Sting theme in there (which would have been a year earlier). He gave one of those polite "Maybe"s that really meant "Not at all," and now that I've relistened, I see what he means--they're not really similar at all.

― clemenza, Monday, 7 May 2012 20:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

haw, it'd be pretty wild if shire was listening to that in 1974 (though i see what you mean).

― tylerw, Monday, 7 May 2012 20:13 (1 year ago) Permalink

i'd say "strikingly similar", before "deeply indebted", if i didn't know better (and i don't)

― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Monday, 7 May 2012 20:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

Check the rest of that album out, it's uncanny! And Guebrou wasn't unknown in the early 70s. "Strikingly similar" for sure. I guess saying "indebted" suggests plagiarism, which isn't what I meant.

― poxen, Monday, 7 May 2012 20:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

i do want to hear the rest of the album now, as that one minute snippet is great

― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Monday, 7 May 2012 20:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

also..

― piscesx, Monday, 7 May 2012 23:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

weird, just watched this for the first time a couple weeks ago

snap, put it on telly as a late movie last Sunday and stayed up to watch it

― ┗|∵|┓ (sic), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 00:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

this film is pretty hard to love IMO

― flesh, the devil, and a wolf (wolf) (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 01:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

'blow up' is much better IMO

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

i dunno, hard to love? maybe i'm a pushover, but you put gene hackman, paul cazale, frederic forrest, teri garr, cindy williams and harrison ford in a movie together, i'm going to love it.

― tylerw, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

This is perhaps my favorite nihilistic "you got played" ending next to "The Killing."

― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

idg what's "hard to love" about it

― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

There's a thread topic: great nihilistic endings. Those two for sure, Straight Time, White Heat, Reservoir Dogs, so many others.

― clemenza, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

Chinatown obviously

― Roger Barfing (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

Dumb and Dumber

― bark ruffalo (latebloomer), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

Half serious about that one

― bark ruffalo (latebloomer), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

Parallax View?

― cinco de extra mayo (loves laboured breathing), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

Definitely^

― bark ruffalo (latebloomer), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

The Long Good Friday

― Leslie Mann: Boner Machine (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 23:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

Night Moves

― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 23:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

Easy Rider
Electra Glide In Blue

(matched set)

― 10. “Pour Some Sugar On Me” – Tom Cruise (contenderizer), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 23:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

Shallow Grave

― improvised explosive advice (WmC), Tuesday, 8 May 2012 23:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

Weekend, of course, both film proper and end credits. It's more a matter of mood and gesture, but I find the last shot of Miller's Crossing strangely nihilistic...I think, I don't know; it's one of my favourite endings ever, but I'm not sure what feelings it conveys.

After relinquishing whatever privacy and anonymity he still possessed, Harry Caul has now lost control of this thread.

― clemenza, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 23:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

wowwwwwwwww

― Irwin Dante's Towering Inferno (WmC), Monday, 10 September 2012 02:13 (9 months ago) Permalink

Never seen it before?

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 10 September 2012 03:38 (9 months ago) Permalink

Nope, it was always on the list, decided to watch it tonight. I'm giving up the NFL and Sundays are going to be for fillum.

― Irwin Dante's Towering Inferno (WmC), Monday, 10 September 2012 03:51 (9 months ago) Permalink

You made a fine choice. So what leapt out at you most?

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 10 September 2012 03:52 (9 months ago) Permalink

The score, the static shots, the tightness of the editing, but mainly Hackman's performance. Great all-around.

― Irwin Dante's Towering Inferno (WmC), Monday, 10 September 2012 03:56 (9 months ago) Permalink

45.

Re: great nihilistic endings. Morocco has a good one, I'd argue -- it's not properly romantic at all.

― Michael Daddino, Monday, 10 September 2012 03:56 (9 months ago) Permalink

Five Easy Pieces?

― aerosmith suck because their corporate rock that sucks (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 10 September 2012 08:14 (9 months ago) Permalink

I mean, abracadabra, Harry, show and tell--I'm number two, so I have to try harder.

― clemenza, Monday, 10 September 2012 11:08 (9 months ago) Permalink

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Coppola's _The Conversation_