Transport in London is shit

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i don't buy a monthly travel card!

but i only really use buses and not even daily -- i reckon so far i am up on the deal by some way though given the fierceness w.which they are policin the bendies now this will probbly have to change :(

mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:00 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Is it not, possibly, slightly contradictory to demand more people manning tube/rail stations and to complain about fares being too expensive?

theantmustdance (theantmustdance), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:03 (eleven years ago) Permalink

No, I think that's sensible - at least sorting out the ridiculous cost of travelleling by rail across the UK.

I still have trouble understanding why/how Virgin charge £75 return to Manchester (with other return options reaching over £400) when you can fly several times the distance for half the price. And why does it take twice as long coming back? Can trains not tilt southbound?

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:04 (eleven years ago) Permalink

i don't buy a monthly travel card!

we all know you arrived here just a few days ago from Kabul. the game's up, sonny chief.

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:04 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I've not had any bad experiences travelling through and around London for a while now. I don't use the trains much but when I do they look and feel new, clean and seem to run fine. I am even cool with the Bendies, but only when they're quiet and you can get one of those big comfy seats (must face forward though).

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:07 (eleven years ago) Permalink

The trains are really good, the tube is depressing.

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:12 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Is it not, possibly, slightly contradictory to demand more people manning tube/rail stations and to complain about fares being too expensive?

I don't know about the tube, but the rail companies apparently make over £100m profit a year in London, and the cost for providing staff is estimated to be between £2m to £4m a year.

Bob Six (bobbysix), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:14 (eleven years ago) Permalink

T/S: Nationalisation vs. Privatisation

tissp! (the impossible shortest specia), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:15 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Actually, we must have done that thread already...

tissp! (the impossible shortest specia), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:15 (eleven years ago) Permalink

those big comfy seats

I don't find them comfortable in the slightest. They seem much harder than the seats on most other buses * and, into the bargain, the poor suspension on those vehicles gives a very bumpy ride in my experience.

* the notable exceptions to this that I've found are a few of the buses used on the 341 route which have purple seats with ridiculously thin upholstery; but these are not to be confused with some others on the same route which also have purple seats but which are wonderfully comfortable.

Oak (small items), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:18 (eleven years ago) Permalink

the tube is depressing

Very true. Resolving as I did about 4 years ago not to travel on it any more was one of the best decisions I have ever made, in a number of ways.

Oak (small items), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:22 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Flights, to anywhere in europe should never be CHEAPER than a rail ticket, advance or not.

fandango (fandango), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:27 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Rotgutt (Rotgutt), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 01:38 (eleven years ago) Permalink

No, pet. Transport in Los Angeles is shit. There is none to speak of. Come try it and see if you don't agree. If you don't have a car you're sk-rewed. If you DO have a car you're sk-rewed too since there are too many cars and not enough roads and freeways to move millions of cars holding ONE person per car. London transport rocks, comparitively. Off your thread topic, but lending my own obnoxious perspective - welcome or not.

Wiggy (Wiggy), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 01:53 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Transport in London is LOTS better than transport in New York.

Is this actually true? I'd always thought received wisdom said the exact opposite.

Public transport in London is good, but wasn't really designed to serve a city that's growing this fast - seems to be where all the problems stem from.

Oak - are you the person I think you are? Something rings familiar here.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:15 (eleven years ago) Permalink

transport in london (on the tube) is expensive.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:18 (eleven years ago) Permalink

My personal experiences weigh towards London being a little better than NYC.. on the other hand, I didn't need to get from one neighborhood to another after midnight in London... The "after midnight" factor makes the difference here, I think.

Dom iNut (donut), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:19 (eleven years ago) Permalink

transport in london is great*

*maybe not if you use the northern line

kings cross - south wimbledon, last thursday, circa midnight = 100 minutes

but yeah, mostly its good. 24 hour tubes would be nice.

i am not a nugget (stevie), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:24 (eleven years ago) Permalink

anyone who thinks London's transport system is bad has obviously never witnessed the sheer horror of transport outside of the M25.

outside london you can, you know, walk or cycle places.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:26 (eleven years ago) Permalink

how much is a monthly travelcard anyway?

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:44 (eleven years ago) Permalink

outside london you can, you know, walk or cycle places.

you can do those things inside london too, you know.

i am not a nugget (stevie), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:48 (eleven years ago) Permalink

death wish

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:50 (eleven years ago) Permalink

the cost for providing staff is estimated to be between £2m to £4m a year

Eh? How many people do you reckon they employ?

James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:06 (eleven years ago) Permalink

trains between countries in europe are always more expensive than flying! eg london > barcelona - train - 180 euros, plane 110 euros.

i cant see train travel getting much cheaper as a result of competition from air travel. maybe we should read my friends dissertation about rail/air competition for business travel between leeds and london. isnt the problem partly that franchising to an extent creates kinda flabby uncompetitive practice, where profits can be made in relative safety from predatory activity, if there isnt strong enough contractual arrnagements or tight enough regulation on the performance of the franchisee?

eg "we award you this contract but will continue to allow you to increase fares/reduce penalties for poor performance, and you can do this for the next 10 years" as opposed to "you have a guaranteed revenue stream for the next 10 years but oyu must ensure to do X Y Z and not do P Q and S"?

i dont really know anything about this anyways.

i guess in a sense i dont really compare london to other cities in europe so that gives me a warped sense of how good transport is in comparison to other UK CITIES (dear sirz, outside of london there are population sizes larger than Basildon, Letchworth, and Chorlton-cum-Hardy). but then again what other european cities are comparable? how does paris do? it might be hyperbole but what euro cities are comparable in terms of geograpohic spread, density of developemnt, population etc etc?

moscow was pretty awesome but they run everything on vodka there, or something. actually it was sort of shit outside the metro, but it depends what your criteria for "good public transport" are

ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:09 (eleven years ago) Permalink

paris is a lot smaller than london, it's true. for me it's all about money. £2.50 for a tube journey is fucked.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:13 (eleven years ago) Permalink

The prices are ridiculous, thanks a lot Ken Fucking Livingstone

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:15 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I thought the subway in New York was more confusing (all that fast train / slow train business, and the lines don't have nice names like Victoria and Piccadilly) but much, much cheaper - about a third of the cost.

When it comes to the 'after midnight' bit, in London that usually means walking through the rain then freezing at a bus stop for half an hour then sitting on a very slow nightbus full of nutters, or paying twenty-five quid to a random ex-convict with a 'taxi' who'll drive you home (eventually, after getting lost) while spouting reactionary nonsense at you the whole way. In New York there seem to be five yellow taxis waiting for you immediately at any time, they don't cost much, and with the grid system they don't get lost.

Tehrannosaurus HoBB (the pirate king), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:16 (eleven years ago) Permalink

The bus service is great, but they're (now) far too expensive too

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:18 (eleven years ago) Permalink

It's not perfect, but Wiggy is right, compared to LA it's the best transport system ever. I thought it was about the same as NYC although it is more expensive. The buses have got a lot better in recent years, and I think CCTV has made night buses a bit safer, at least I never see any trouble on them these days.

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:26 (eleven years ago) Permalink

lol lol lol!!!!!

again, its hard not to laugh when you are subject to the whims of a properly deregulated market outside of london. First Groups bus fares went up 4 times in a year in s yorks, now its 1.50 a single on first buses. still 1.20/30 in london?

as for tube fares, what is expensive about a 2.50 tube fare? in comparison to previous prices? or are you assessing the cost of labour, infrastructure, distance travelled etc etc and concluding that it is overpriced?

ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:30 (eleven years ago) Permalink

as for tube fares, what is expensive about a 2.50 tube fare? in comparison to previous prices? or are you assessing the cost of labour, infrastructure, distance travelled etc etc and concluding that it is overpriced?

-- ambrose (ambrosewhit...), February 14th, 2006.

what's expensive is, it's expensive! let someone else do the math. but yes 'distance travelled' being about 2-3 miles, it does seem out of proportion.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:33 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I've never seen any trouble on a bus in London ever. If you think night buses in London are dodgy, you should have tried spending most of your adolescent Friday and Saturday nights getting the night bus from Glasgow to Paisley at George Square.

still 1.20/30 in london?

It's now £1.50. Considering that, what 4 years ago(?), local journeys were 70p, I'd say that is somewhat above the rate of inflation.

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:33 (eleven years ago) Permalink

are you assessing the cost of labour, infrastructure, distance travelled etc etc and concluding that it is overpriced?

another factor to consider might be the *vast fucking profits* made by the operator too?

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:34 (eleven years ago) Permalink

But Londoners moaning about having the best transport system in Britain is a bit boring, I agree

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:35 (eleven years ago) Permalink

but maybe justified on a thread of this name?

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:36 (eleven years ago) Permalink

It would tend to encourage that response

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:38 (eleven years ago) Permalink

How does one get to this 'outside London'? Are you talking about the end of the Central Line or that Zone B nonsense at the end of the Metropolitan Line?

Bendy Bus 38 on diversion Saturday. Confused the hell out of me. KEN OUT! etc.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:41 (eleven years ago) Permalink

It's now £1.50. Considering that, what 4 years ago(?), local journeys were 70p, I'd say that is somewhat above the rate of inflation.

But 80p on Oyster or Carnet.

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:42 (eleven years ago) Permalink

... and what if you don't use public transport every day? If you're unemployed or an OAP (do they get concessions)?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:42 (eleven years ago) Permalink

my oyster seems to subtract £1 on the bus. must ask tfl.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:43 (eleven years ago) Permalink

... or a part time worker?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:43 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I just think it's a fucking crime the amount of money commuters are expected to pay. If I worked in London, it would cost me around about £16-£25 to travel a few miles from Hitchin into the capital every single day. This might just about be justified if the service was fast and efficient. However I abject to the fact that these people are swiping up to a third of commuters' wages for the privilege of standing* with some guy's armpit in their face and being *ahem* "whisked" along at a comparatively laconic rate over a very short distance. And that's if your train actually turns up**, or if the elusively crap ticket machine decides to give you a ticket as opposed to swallowing your cash card.
Why exactly does it cost so much just to traverse a small area of this tiny island? Why is it so unreliable? Why are there so few trains? Why, if I'm out in London, am I stranded if I decide to stay out after midnight? Why are the staff so rude all the time? Why don't they have a ticket barrier that stops people dodging fares? Why don't the ticket machines ever work? Why is there never more than one person selling tickets at a time? Why are the trains so slow?
Tear it down and start again, I reckon. Antiquated bollocks run by a bunch of retarded money-grubbing jerks.

*or sitting down on the floor where they get kicked
** for many people, they won't know their train isn't coming until several minutes after the fact since all the video terminals are fucked

Vintage Latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:44 (eleven years ago) Permalink

£1 between 7:30am and 9:30am

OAPs get freedom passes and their are concessionary fares for Jobseekers/New Deal

Not having an oyster of some sort is foolish

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:44 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Concessionary fares for Jobseekers/New Deal? Are you sure?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:46 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I rode the new DLR extension to George V t'other day. I love the DLR. I like the look of the new 'Millennium' park by the Thames Barrier.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:46 (eleven years ago) Permalink

that's fkn typical that the fares are 20p higher *when you're most likely to us it*. it makes the 80p claim a load of old toss.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 11:01 (eleven years ago) Permalink

>> Concessionary fares for Jobseekers/New Deal? Are you sure?

I never heard of this when I was signing on, but that was a couple of years ago.

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 11:01 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I think you gradually become immune. It's every bit as shit as before, but I'm just another cockneyfied zombie now.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 11:01 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I don't have a monthly Travelcard - I did for a few years but I figured with the monotony of my public transport usage (and tending towards going out in the car at weekends) I wasn't getting my money's worth, so I switched to Oyster Pre-Pay. Inbetween I had a spell of Bus Pass + Pre-Pay top-up, which worked nicely for the occasional Tube journey.

Now I just get the X68 both ways (long walk at the Zone 1 end, but I probably need it) and tend to spend around £30-35/month. (Z1-3 Travelcard is £100/mo, Z1-2 is £85/mo [would allow me to use buses outside Z2 but not rail], All Zone Bus Pass is £52/mo).

The capping of Oyster Pre-Pay so that you never pay more than an equivalent daily Travelcard or Bus Pass if you find yrself bus- and Tube-hopping is a nice feature. Now, if they'd just install Oystercard readers at SE London surburban rail stations...

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 11:03 (eleven years ago) Permalink

look at this moron https://twitter.com/MarkChutney/status/818356480671936512

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Monday, 9 January 2017 09:10 (three months ago) Permalink

LOLz

Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Monday, 9 January 2017 09:12 (three months ago) Permalink

if(MARK)
‏@MarkChutney

My favourite #Bowie track is This Town Isn't Big Enough for the Both of Us

Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Monday, 9 January 2017 09:14 (three months ago) Permalink

So this is a sort of clueless hipster Barry Shitpeas perhaps?

Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Monday, 9 January 2017 09:15 (three months ago) Permalink

woah, imagine being that guy, and spending moments of your painfully finite life trolling people so ineptly and pointlessly

It's called, "giving a shit". (stevie), Monday, 9 January 2017 09:16 (three months ago) Permalink

East London equality!

It's called, "giving a shit". (stevie), Monday, 9 January 2017 09:16 (three months ago) Permalink

Coffee, gin, East London, equality!

lex pretend, Monday, 9 January 2017 09:17 (three months ago) Permalink

Is Sadiq Khan's bus driver dad still alive? Needs to take his boy home and ground him for his bullshit rn.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 9 January 2017 11:31 (three months ago) Permalink

so it seems if you are fighting for better working conditions in London or against your own gentrification then mayoral candidates Zac Khan or Amir Goldsmith are both useless fuckers.

calzino, Monday, 9 January 2017 12:08 (three months ago) Permalink

...

Andrew Farrell, Monday, 9 January 2017 12:12 (three months ago) Permalink

Khan previously made it quite clear (i think actually 80 times) that getting into power is all that matters, so you can erm.. make a difference or something.

calzino, Monday, 9 January 2017 12:12 (three months ago) Permalink

seems unfair to expect a boxer to have much effect on London transport tbf

Neil S, Monday, 9 January 2017 12:13 (three months ago) Permalink

unfair tbf

Neil S, Monday, 9 January 2017 12:14 (three months ago) Permalink

lol! I mean Sadiq of course but Amir might even do a better job

calzino, Monday, 9 January 2017 12:15 (three months ago) Permalink

Sadiq Khan is at least trying to hold talks! Other mayors in recent memory refused to do this.

jane burkini (suzy), Monday, 9 January 2017 12:23 (three months ago) Permalink

The way he shills for affordable housing is exactly what Zac would have done imo

calzino, Monday, 9 January 2017 12:28 (three months ago) Permalink

Wouldn't trust Sadiq Khan as far as I could throw him tbh.

Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Monday, 9 January 2017 12:38 (three months ago) Permalink

He's a little lad tbf

nashwan, Monday, 9 January 2017 13:14 (three months ago) Permalink

Walked in... Did notice that some of those new to walking and cycling in London could do with basic training.

Dr Drudge (Bob Six), Monday, 9 January 2017 13:54 (three months ago) Permalink

@PeterTatchell
I support rail workers but strikes hurt commuters, whereas opening barriers & allowing passengers to travel free would hurt rail bosses

Tatch one of many calling for rail workers to actually break the law as opposed to simply taking conventional industrial action.

nashwan, Monday, 9 January 2017 15:38 (three months ago) Permalink

Relieved this is over. I walk to work anyway, but the guy I share an office with kept yelling TUBESTRIKE! in a put-on scottish accent and hitting me on the arm. It was starting to hurt.

sktsh, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 12:52 (three months ago) Permalink

Ticket revenue from Southern goes to the government, not the rail management company. idk what the point would be when the vast majority of people have already paid for their weekly/monthly/annual tickets. Not sure how it works for TfL.

Bubba H.O.T.A.P.E (ShariVari), Tuesday, 10 January 2017 13:23 (three months ago) Permalink

The weekend disruptions email seems to now be missing the single most useful feature - the map of tube closures. Maybe the bloke who does them is still on holiday.

(There's usually one when you get to the station but that might be too late. And goldhawk road station always has the map the other side of the barriers, which is idiocy iyam)

koogs, Thursday, 12 January 2017 12:02 (three months ago) Permalink

I think Diamond Geezer covered this on his blog on 5 Jan.

Th map is also disappearing from the station posters as well. He quoted part of an internal TfL document:

"Over the past year, we have been continuously working with research agency 2CV to better understand what customers think about the posters on our whiteboards. From now, the posters on our station whiteboards will have fewer words, more colour, more graphics and simpler information, with the most important information shown first. This is so that our posters stand out and quickly communicate what is most important. For example, the weekly closures poster will no longer contain a Tube map as over 90% of customers surveyed said they found it confusing rather than helpful."

"The research also highlighted the ways in which our staff play a vital role in getting messages across and how we can make their jobs easier. During the consultations, staff said that they found the new posters were clearer, stood out better and helped them direct customers better during closures."

"All of the changes are supported by trials with customers and staff at Liverpool Street, Brixton and King’s Cross St. Pancras stations."

Dr Drudge (Bob Six), Thursday, 12 January 2017 12:57 (three months ago) Permalink

I highly recommend reading his entry for Jan 10 - http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.co.uk/ (no direct link afaict)

brekekekexit collapse collapse (ledge), Thursday, 12 January 2017 13:19 (three months ago) Permalink

The problem I have is when the words say something like the central line is closed between x and y and neither x nor y is on my usual route. So is my trip ok or not? One glance at the map will tell me.

koogs, Thursday, 12 January 2017 16:27 (three months ago) Permalink

They have ruined london by doing this.

koogs, Thursday, 12 January 2017 16:57 (three months ago) Permalink

Apparently there is snow in the South East of England so it is now officially a national crisis/disaster/calamity, expect questions in Parliament, wall-to-wall media coverage etc etc.

Eats like Elvis, shits like De Niro (Tom D.), Thursday, 12 January 2017 17:24 (three months ago) Permalink

i think i mentioned elsewhere that rush-hour Underground was terrifying to me; hats off

Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 12 January 2017 17:37 (three months ago) Permalink

did it twice a day for 10 years

illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 12 January 2017 19:25 (three months ago) Permalink

> (no direct link afaict)

click on the time posted. the hover text says 'permalink'.
http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/express-tube.html

koogs, Thursday, 12 January 2017 19:39 (three months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

There is a link to a map in this week's email, albeit in the text not at the top.

However, clicking on this link on my phone (eventually) shows the required map but doesn't let me see more than the top left corner of it. I can zoom in and scroll, but not beyond the top left. Is this the same for everyone? It's not particularly useful...

koogs, Friday, 24 February 2017 12:36 (two months ago) Permalink

Worth keeping an eye on:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/28/uber-v-tfl-court-hears-written-english-test-will-cost-33000-driver-jobs

Not a fan of Uber but this looks like a completely unnecessary law designed simply to inconvenience minicab firms at the behest of the taxi lobby.

Wag1 Shree Rajneesh (ShariVari), Tuesday, 28 February 2017 12:37 (one month ago) Permalink

that is idiotic, unpleasant and unnecessary. i took a black cab the other and the driver was a gobby anti-everyone "guvmint shd do something about it" card, uber later on, driven by an intermittently comprehensible but charming senegalese, who told me, i think, about how his dad can't really go out all that much any more because he's losing his marbles a bit and who had studied engineering.

one thing they shd do is apply congestion charge to uber which wd level the playing field a bit, plus perhaps help with the fact i think there are something like 28,000 additional PHVs on the road since 2008. don't quote me before i dig up the stat.

Fizzles, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 19:57 (one month ago) Permalink

"charming senegalese" f'ing hell i'll just take my pith helmet off.

Fizzles, Tuesday, 28 February 2017 20:07 (one month ago) Permalink


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