Transport in London is shit

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i don't buy a monthly travel card!

but i only really use buses and not even daily -- i reckon so far i am up on the deal by some way though given the fierceness w.which they are policin the bendies now this will probbly have to change :(

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:00 (7 years ago) Permalink

Is it not, possibly, slightly contradictory to demand more people manning tube/rail stations and to complain about fares being too expensive?

― theantmustdance (theantmustdance), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

No, I think that's sensible - at least sorting out the ridiculous cost of travelleling by rail across the UK.

I still have trouble understanding why/how Virgin charge £75 return to Manchester (with other return options reaching over £400) when you can fly several times the distance for half the price. And why does it take twice as long coming back? Can trains not tilt southbound?

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

i don't buy a monthly travel card!

we all know you arrived here just a few days ago from Kabul. the game's up, sonny chief.

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

I've not had any bad experiences travelling through and around London for a while now. I don't use the trains much but when I do they look and feel new, clean and seem to run fine. I am even cool with the Bendies, but only when they're quiet and you can get one of those big comfy seats (must face forward though).

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:07 (7 years ago) Permalink

The trains are really good, the tube is depressing.

― Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:12 (7 years ago) Permalink

Is it not, possibly, slightly contradictory to demand more people manning tube/rail stations and to complain about fares being too expensive?

I don't know about the tube, but the rail companies apparently make over £100m profit a year in London, and the cost for providing staff is estimated to be between £2m to £4m a year.

― Bob Six (bobbysix), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

T/S: Nationalisation vs. Privatisation

― tissp! (the impossible shortest specia), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

Actually, we must have done that thread already...

― tissp! (the impossible shortest specia), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

those big comfy seats

I don't find them comfortable in the slightest. They seem much harder than the seats on most other buses * and, into the bargain, the poor suspension on those vehicles gives a very bumpy ride in my experience.

* the notable exceptions to this that I've found are a few of the buses used on the 341 route which have purple seats with ridiculously thin upholstery; but these are not to be confused with some others on the same route which also have purple seats but which are wonderfully comfortable.

― Oak (small items), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

the tube is depressing

Very true. Resolving as I did about 4 years ago not to travel on it any more was one of the best decisions I have ever made, in a number of ways.

― Oak (small items), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

Flights, to anywhere in europe should never be CHEAPER than a rail ticket, advance or not.

― fandango (fandango), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

― Rotgutt (Rotgutt), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 01:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

No, pet. Transport in Los Angeles is shit. There is none to speak of. Come try it and see if you don't agree. If you don't have a car you're sk-rewed. If you DO have a car you're sk-rewed too since there are too many cars and not enough roads and freeways to move millions of cars holding ONE person per car. London transport rocks, comparitively. Off your thread topic, but lending my own obnoxious perspective - welcome or not.

― Wiggy (Wiggy), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 01:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

Transport in London is LOTS better than transport in New York.

Is this actually true? I'd always thought received wisdom said the exact opposite.

Public transport in London is good, but wasn't really designed to serve a city that's growing this fast - seems to be where all the problems stem from.

Oak - are you the person I think you are? Something rings familiar here.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

transport in london (on the tube) is expensive.

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

My personal experiences weigh towards London being a little better than NYC.. on the other hand, I didn't need to get from one neighborhood to another after midnight in London... The "after midnight" factor makes the difference here, I think.

― Dom iNut (donut), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

transport in london is great*

*maybe not if you use the northern line

kings cross - south wimbledon, last thursday, circa midnight = 100 minutes

but yeah, mostly its good. 24 hour tubes would be nice.

― i am not a nugget (stevie), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

anyone who thinks London's transport system is bad has obviously never witnessed the sheer horror of transport outside of the M25.

outside london you can, you know, walk or cycle places.

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

how much is a monthly travelcard anyway?

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

outside london you can, you know, walk or cycle places.

you can do those things inside london too, you know.

― i am not a nugget (stevie), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

death wish

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

the cost for providing staff is estimated to be between £2m to £4m a year

Eh? How many people do you reckon they employ?

― James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:06 (7 years ago) Permalink

trains between countries in europe are always more expensive than flying! eg london > barcelona - train - 180 euros, plane 110 euros.

i cant see train travel getting much cheaper as a result of competition from air travel. maybe we should read my friends dissertation about rail/air competition for business travel between leeds and london. isnt the problem partly that franchising to an extent creates kinda flabby uncompetitive practice, where profits can be made in relative safety from predatory activity, if there isnt strong enough contractual arrnagements or tight enough regulation on the performance of the franchisee?

eg "we award you this contract but will continue to allow you to increase fares/reduce penalties for poor performance, and you can do this for the next 10 years" as opposed to "you have a guaranteed revenue stream for the next 10 years but oyu must ensure to do X Y Z and not do P Q and S"?

i dont really know anything about this anyways.

i guess in a sense i dont really compare london to other cities in europe so that gives me a warped sense of how good transport is in comparison to other UK CITIES (dear sirz, outside of london there are population sizes larger than Basildon, Letchworth, and Chorlton-cum-Hardy). but then again what other european cities are comparable? how does paris do? it might be hyperbole but what euro cities are comparable in terms of geograpohic spread, density of developemnt, population etc etc?

moscow was pretty awesome but they run everything on vodka there, or something. actually it was sort of shit outside the metro, but it depends what your criteria for "good public transport" are

― ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

paris is a lot smaller than london, it's true. for me it's all about money. £2.50 for a tube journey is fucked.

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

The prices are ridiculous, thanks a lot Ken Fucking Livingstone

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

I thought the subway in New York was more confusing (all that fast train / slow train business, and the lines don't have nice names like Victoria and Piccadilly) but much, much cheaper - about a third of the cost.

When it comes to the 'after midnight' bit, in London that usually means walking through the rain then freezing at a bus stop for half an hour then sitting on a very slow nightbus full of nutters, or paying twenty-five quid to a random ex-convict with a 'taxi' who'll drive you home (eventually, after getting lost) while spouting reactionary nonsense at you the whole way. In New York there seem to be five yellow taxis waiting for you immediately at any time, they don't cost much, and with the grid system they don't get lost.

― Tehrannosaurus HoBB (the pirate king), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:16 (7 years ago) Permalink

The bus service is great, but they're (now) far too expensive too

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

It's not perfect, but Wiggy is right, compared to LA it's the best transport system ever. I thought it was about the same as NYC although it is more expensive. The buses have got a lot better in recent years, and I think CCTV has made night buses a bit safer, at least I never see any trouble on them these days.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

lol lol lol!!!!!

again, its hard not to laugh when you are subject to the whims of a properly deregulated market outside of london. First Groups bus fares went up 4 times in a year in s yorks, now its 1.50 a single on first buses. still 1.20/30 in london?

as for tube fares, what is expensive about a 2.50 tube fare? in comparison to previous prices? or are you assessing the cost of labour, infrastructure, distance travelled etc etc and concluding that it is overpriced?

― ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

-- ambrose (ambrosewhit...), February 14th, 2006.

what's expensive is, it's expensive! let someone else do the math. but yes 'distance travelled' being about 2-3 miles, it does seem out of proportion.

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

I've never seen any trouble on a bus in London ever. If you think night buses in London are dodgy, you should have tried spending most of your adolescent Friday and Saturday nights getting the night bus from Glasgow to Paisley at George Square.

still 1.20/30 in london?

It's now £1.50. Considering that, what 4 years ago(?), local journeys were 70p, I'd say that is somewhat above the rate of inflation.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

are you assessing the cost of labour, infrastructure, distance travelled etc etc and concluding that it is overpriced?

another factor to consider might be the *vast fucking profits* made by the operator too?

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:34 (7 years ago) Permalink

But Londoners moaning about having the best transport system in Britain is a bit boring, I agree

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

but maybe justified on a thread of this name?

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:36 (7 years ago) Permalink

It would tend to encourage that response

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

How does one get to this 'outside London'? Are you talking about the end of the Central Line or that Zone B nonsense at the end of the Metropolitan Line?

Bendy Bus 38 on diversion Saturday. Confused the hell out of me. KEN OUT! etc.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

It's now £1.50. Considering that, what 4 years ago(?), local journeys were 70p, I'd say that is somewhat above the rate of inflation.

But 80p on Oyster or Carnet.

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

... and what if you don't use public transport every day? If you're unemployed or an OAP (do they get concessions)?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

my oyster seems to subtract £1 on the bus. must ask tfl.

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

... or a part time worker?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

I just think it's a fucking crime the amount of money commuters are expected to pay. If I worked in London, it would cost me around about £16-£25 to travel a few miles from Hitchin into the capital every single day. This might just about be justified if the service was fast and efficient. However I abject to the fact that these people are swiping up to a third of commuters' wages for the privilege of standing* with some guy's armpit in their face and being *ahem* "whisked" along at a comparatively laconic rate over a very short distance. And that's if your train actually turns up**, or if the elusively crap ticket machine decides to give you a ticket as opposed to swallowing your cash card.
Why exactly does it cost so much just to traverse a small area of this tiny island? Why is it so unreliable? Why are there so few trains? Why, if I'm out in London, am I stranded if I decide to stay out after midnight? Why are the staff so rude all the time? Why don't they have a ticket barrier that stops people dodging fares? Why don't the ticket machines ever work? Why is there never more than one person selling tickets at a time? Why are the trains so slow?
Tear it down and start again, I reckon. Antiquated bollocks run by a bunch of retarded money-grubbing jerks.

*or sitting down on the floor where they get kicked
** for many people, they won't know their train isn't coming until several minutes after the fact since all the video terminals are fucked

― Vintage Latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

£1 between 7:30am and 9:30am

OAPs get freedom passes and their are concessionary fares for Jobseekers/New Deal

Not having an oyster of some sort is foolish

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

Concessionary fares for Jobseekers/New Deal? Are you sure?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

I rode the new DLR extension to George V t'other day. I love the DLR. I like the look of the new 'Millennium' park by the Thames Barrier.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

that's fkn typical that the fares are 20p higher *when you're most likely to us it*. it makes the 80p claim a load of old toss.

― The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 11:01 (7 years ago) Permalink

>> Concessionary fares for Jobseekers/New Deal? Are you sure?

I never heard of this when I was signing on, but that was a couple of years ago.

― Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 11:01 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think you gradually become immune. It's every bit as shit as before, but I'm just another cockneyfied zombie now.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 11:01 (7 years ago) Permalink

http://tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tickets/2006/photocards/index.shtml#1617

― Ed (dali), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 11:02 (7 years ago) Permalink

I don't have a monthly Travelcard - I did for a few years but I figured with the monotony of my public transport usage (and tending towards going out in the car at weekends) I wasn't getting my money's worth, so I switched to Oyster Pre-Pay. Inbetween I had a spell of Bus Pass + Pre-Pay top-up, which worked nicely for the occasional Tube journey.

Now I just get the X68 both ways (long walk at the Zone 1 end, but I probably need it) and tend to spend around £30-35/month. (Z1-3 Travelcard is £100/mo, Z1-2 is £85/mo [would allow me to use buses outside Z2 but not rail], All Zone Bus Pass is £52/mo).

The capping of Oyster Pre-Pay so that you never pay more than an equivalent daily Travelcard or Bus Pass if you find yrself bus- and Tube-hopping is a nice feature. Now, if they'd just install Oystercard readers at SE London surburban rail stations...

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 11:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 939 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

― r|t|c, Wednesday, 26 September 2012 11:50 (7 months ago) Permalink

brilliant stuff

― Mountain Excitement (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Wednesday, 26 September 2012 15:29 (7 months ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

http://www.lookforlonger.com/GameDesktop.aspx

― lex pretend, Thursday, 11 October 2012 16:51 (7 months ago) Permalink

yeah i know it's weird posting that on the day of the deadline at a time when most brits have logged off but OH WELL

i have ONE LEFT

― lex pretend, Thursday, 11 October 2012 16:52 (7 months ago) Permalink

lambeth north is really kind of pushing it

― suare, Thursday, 11 October 2012 17:02 (7 months ago) Permalink

i rolled my eyes so hard at that

― lex pretend, Thursday, 11 October 2012 17:26 (7 months ago) Permalink

Are you still missing one, the Lex? Which one?

― Tim, Friday, 12 October 2012 10:04 (7 months ago) Permalink

it was the one that was a false clue (and doesn't count towards the score) (my missing one was actually a tiny but easy clue i hadn't seen)

― lex pretend, Friday, 12 October 2012 10:11 (7 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Don't think I've had a morning train that was on time once in the past two weeks.

― stet, Tuesday, 27 November 2012 09:05 (5 months ago) Permalink

In five weeks time, the London Overground goes orbital. The South London link from Surrey Quays to Clapham Junction opens on Sunday 9th December, and suddenly it'll be possible to ride round the capital via only orange trains.

[...]

This creates the tantalising prospect of being able to ride the entire orbital route from Highbury and Islington to Highbury and Islington via Clapham Junction in only two trains. All the most hardcore London train geeks will be doing it, although the rest of you might give it a miss because it is essentially pointless.

http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/outer-circle.html

― ledge, Thursday, 29 November 2012 10:58 (5 months ago) Permalink

ooh i had no idea about that! i keep ending up having to travel from hackney to clapham junction these days, will prob give the new route a try just for some variety...

― #YOLO ONO (lex pretend), Thursday, 29 November 2012 11:11 (5 months ago) Permalink

The lack of a sensible or easy way to travel from SE to SW London has been a fucking nightmare for so long that I thoroughly approve of this. Shame I don't really have any reason to go to SW London.

― Matt DC, Thursday, 29 November 2012 11:18 (5 months ago) Permalink

There's been a pretty strong influx of 30-something hipsters and/or startup geeks moving to the Brockley-Honor Oak-Forest Hill axis since the orange line opened up, guess they'll start migrating west now as well.

― Matt DC, Thursday, 29 November 2012 11:22 (5 months ago) Permalink

This gives me an alternative route to work (I work nearish Clapham Junction) but this new train takes longer than just staying on the Victoria line to Vauxhall and getting a train to Clapham Junction from there unfortunately.

― Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 29 November 2012 11:50 (5 months ago) Permalink

Alternatives are great news though, right?

This is good news for me in so far as it will enable easy getting back to Peckham when I'm coming back into London on the slow line from the South West.

A likely decrease in trains to Victoria (where I work these days) is probably bad news.

But alternatives! Good!

― Tim, Thursday, 29 November 2012 11:53 (5 months ago) Permalink

Dunno, they seem to love redirecting trains to Victoria and there'll probably be even more of that when the really hardcore work at London Bridge gets going.

Yer commute may be slower on the overground but it might be more bearable, although the great thing about alternative routes is that they take the pressure off the main one.

― Matt DC, Thursday, 29 November 2012 11:56 (5 months ago) Permalink

What will make a huge difference to my commute will be the extension of the Northern line to Battersea, but that's not going to be done for 4 years so I probably won't be working here then.

― Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 29 November 2012 11:57 (5 months ago) Permalink

Commuting via Victoria line is totally fine for me cos I live at the end of it = virtually guaranteed seat unless I'm running v late.

― Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Thursday, 29 November 2012 11:58 (5 months ago) Permalink

This makes it a single train commute for me, which is great, but pisser about losing the direct Victoria trains (especially at weekends, when there seem to be none).

― stet, Thursday, 29 November 2012 12:20 (5 months ago) Permalink

I had no idea that the inner loop (South London line) from Victoria to London Bridge was closing. Bit of a pain for regular users of Wandsworth Rd and Clapham High St. Also, the once-a-day parliamentary train that runs up to Kensington Olympia is finally being withdrawn from those stations too.

I've now downloaded a spreadsheet of station usage. Someone stop me.

― Michael Jones, Thursday, 29 November 2012 12:40 (5 months ago) Permalink

Peckham Rye gets more than Aberdeen!

― stet, Thursday, 29 November 2012 12:44 (5 months ago) Permalink

I'm assuming the closure of that inner loop means fewer trains from London Bridge down to Crystal Palace (and beyond) as well? That's going to fuck up my commute if so.

― Matt DC, Thursday, 29 November 2012 12:49 (5 months ago) Permalink

Not sure the inner loop closure will affect LB-CP, and there's no increased capacity on the stretch south of New Cross (as there was when the original extension came into service), so it should be OK. When Overground services first started between Palace/West Croydon and Dalston, there was a reduction of trains in/out of London Bridge along the Forest Hill/Sydenham line, leading to the dreaded 25min hole in southbound rush hour services from LB which I still occasionally find myself falling into.

― Michael Jones, Thursday, 29 November 2012 13:02 (5 months ago) Permalink

Yeah I got my loops mixed up, this is the one that goes through South Bermondsey and Peckham Rye and places, right?

― Matt DC, Thursday, 29 November 2012 13:26 (5 months ago) Permalink

The wikipedia journey starting at Parliamentary trains is fab. Eg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gainsborough_Central_railway_station - managed to have fewer passengers than a station which was closed and had no tracks.

― stet, Thursday, 29 November 2012 14:34 (5 months ago) Permalink

We followed the same route, Stet!

MDC: yep.

― Michael Jones, Thursday, 29 November 2012 14:38 (5 months ago) Permalink

Anyone else get caught out by the arriva bus strike this morning?

― sktsh, Thursday, 29 November 2012 15:42 (5 months ago) Permalink

the extension of the Northern line to Battersea

I had no idea this was even being considered

― all the people on the right, boogaloo (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Thursday, 29 November 2012 16:29 (5 months ago) Permalink

I thought I had escaped bus strike troubles, but then I waited 25 minutes for my bus only for it to drive past me. RIP evening plans.

― Shane Richie Junior (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 29 November 2012 17:37 (5 months ago) Permalink

Ah, this explains why somebody who was supposed to meet me this morning waited 50 minutes for a bus which never came. I thought he was exaggerating.

― all the people on the right, boogaloo (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Thursday, 29 November 2012 17:52 (5 months ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

again with my annual commute i find myself asking how this shit is acceptable or even possible

clapham junction to high st kensington - FOUR stops - has just taken me 70 MINUTES

i stayed in battersea to make the commute easier and it would have taken less time to do it from hackney FFS

― lex pretend, Thursday, 7 February 2013 10:48 (3 months ago) Permalink

i've heard many reports that the new southern overground line is a bit of a shambles, journeys involving it invariably taking 30 mins longer than they should and such.

― hot young stalin (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 7 February 2013 10:51 (3 months ago) Permalink

also, inexplicably doesn't allow you to indicate that you're avoiding zone 1 by using it.

― hot young stalin (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 7 February 2013 10:52 (3 months ago) Permalink

oh you motherfucker

victoria station is where the party is right now

― imago, Thursday, 7 February 2013 11:27 (3 months ago) Permalink

Overground has been punctual whenever I've used it, which has only been in extremis because the thousands of stops make it too damn slow and infrequent even if it's on time.

― stet, Thursday, 7 February 2013 12:14 (3 months ago) Permalink

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