Transport in London is shit

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i don't buy a monthly travel card!

but i only really use buses and not even daily -- i reckon so far i am up on the deal by some way though given the fierceness w.which they are policin the bendies now this will probbly have to change :(

mark s (mark s), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

Is it not, possibly, slightly contradictory to demand more people manning tube/rail stations and to complain about fares being too expensive?

theantmustdance (theantmustdance), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

No, I think that's sensible - at least sorting out the ridiculous cost of travelleling by rail across the UK.

I still have trouble understanding why/how Virgin charge £75 return to Manchester (with other return options reaching over £400) when you can fly several times the distance for half the price. And why does it take twice as long coming back? Can trains not tilt southbound?

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

i don't buy a monthly travel card!

we all know you arrived here just a few days ago from Kabul. the game's up, sonny chief.

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

I've not had any bad experiences travelling through and around London for a while now. I don't use the trains much but when I do they look and feel new, clean and seem to run fine. I am even cool with the Bendies, but only when they're quiet and you can get one of those big comfy seats (must face forward though).

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

The trains are really good, the tube is depressing.

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:12 (9 years ago) Permalink

Is it not, possibly, slightly contradictory to demand more people manning tube/rail stations and to complain about fares being too expensive?

I don't know about the tube, but the rail companies apparently make over £100m profit a year in London, and the cost for providing staff is estimated to be between £2m to £4m a year.

Bob Six (bobbysix), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:14 (9 years ago) Permalink

T/S: Nationalisation vs. Privatisation

tissp! (the impossible shortest specia), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

Actually, we must have done that thread already...

tissp! (the impossible shortest specia), Monday, 13 February 2006 23:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

those big comfy seats

I don't find them comfortable in the slightest. They seem much harder than the seats on most other buses * and, into the bargain, the poor suspension on those vehicles gives a very bumpy ride in my experience.

* the notable exceptions to this that I've found are a few of the buses used on the 341 route which have purple seats with ridiculously thin upholstery; but these are not to be confused with some others on the same route which also have purple seats but which are wonderfully comfortable.

Oak (small items), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

the tube is depressing

Very true. Resolving as I did about 4 years ago not to travel on it any more was one of the best decisions I have ever made, in a number of ways.

Oak (small items), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:22 (9 years ago) Permalink

Flights, to anywhere in europe should never be CHEAPER than a rail ticket, advance or not.

fandango (fandango), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 00:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

Rotgutt (Rotgutt), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 01:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

No, pet. Transport in Los Angeles is shit. There is none to speak of. Come try it and see if you don't agree. If you don't have a car you're sk-rewed. If you DO have a car you're sk-rewed too since there are too many cars and not enough roads and freeways to move millions of cars holding ONE person per car. London transport rocks, comparitively. Off your thread topic, but lending my own obnoxious perspective - welcome or not.

Wiggy (Wiggy), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 01:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

Transport in London is LOTS better than transport in New York.

Is this actually true? I'd always thought received wisdom said the exact opposite.

Public transport in London is good, but wasn't really designed to serve a city that's growing this fast - seems to be where all the problems stem from.

Oak - are you the person I think you are? Something rings familiar here.

Matt DC (Matt DC), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

transport in london (on the tube) is expensive.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

My personal experiences weigh towards London being a little better than NYC.. on the other hand, I didn't need to get from one neighborhood to another after midnight in London... The "after midnight" factor makes the difference here, I think.

Dom iNut (donut), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:19 (9 years ago) Permalink

transport in london is great*

*maybe not if you use the northern line

kings cross - south wimbledon, last thursday, circa midnight = 100 minutes

but yeah, mostly its good. 24 hour tubes would be nice.

i am not a nugget (stevie), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

anyone who thinks London's transport system is bad has obviously never witnessed the sheer horror of transport outside of the M25.

outside london you can, you know, walk or cycle places.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:26 (9 years ago) Permalink

how much is a monthly travelcard anyway?

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

outside london you can, you know, walk or cycle places.

you can do those things inside london too, you know.

i am not a nugget (stevie), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

death wish

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 09:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

the cost for providing staff is estimated to be between £2m to £4m a year

Eh? How many people do you reckon they employ?

James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:06 (9 years ago) Permalink

trains between countries in europe are always more expensive than flying! eg london > barcelona - train - 180 euros, plane 110 euros.

i cant see train travel getting much cheaper as a result of competition from air travel. maybe we should read my friends dissertation about rail/air competition for business travel between leeds and london. isnt the problem partly that franchising to an extent creates kinda flabby uncompetitive practice, where profits can be made in relative safety from predatory activity, if there isnt strong enough contractual arrnagements or tight enough regulation on the performance of the franchisee?

eg "we award you this contract but will continue to allow you to increase fares/reduce penalties for poor performance, and you can do this for the next 10 years" as opposed to "you have a guaranteed revenue stream for the next 10 years but oyu must ensure to do X Y Z and not do P Q and S"?

i dont really know anything about this anyways.

i guess in a sense i dont really compare london to other cities in europe so that gives me a warped sense of how good transport is in comparison to other UK CITIES (dear sirz, outside of london there are population sizes larger than Basildon, Letchworth, and Chorlton-cum-Hardy). but then again what other european cities are comparable? how does paris do? it might be hyperbole but what euro cities are comparable in terms of geograpohic spread, density of developemnt, population etc etc?

moscow was pretty awesome but they run everything on vodka there, or something. actually it was sort of shit outside the metro, but it depends what your criteria for "good public transport" are

ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:09 (9 years ago) Permalink

paris is a lot smaller than london, it's true. for me it's all about money. £2.50 for a tube journey is fucked.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:13 (9 years ago) Permalink

The prices are ridiculous, thanks a lot Ken Fucking Livingstone

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

I thought the subway in New York was more confusing (all that fast train / slow train business, and the lines don't have nice names like Victoria and Piccadilly) but much, much cheaper - about a third of the cost.

When it comes to the 'after midnight' bit, in London that usually means walking through the rain then freezing at a bus stop for half an hour then sitting on a very slow nightbus full of nutters, or paying twenty-five quid to a random ex-convict with a 'taxi' who'll drive you home (eventually, after getting lost) while spouting reactionary nonsense at you the whole way. In New York there seem to be five yellow taxis waiting for you immediately at any time, they don't cost much, and with the grid system they don't get lost.

Tehrannosaurus HoBB (the pirate king), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

The bus service is great, but they're (now) far too expensive too

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

It's not perfect, but Wiggy is right, compared to LA it's the best transport system ever. I thought it was about the same as NYC although it is more expensive. The buses have got a lot better in recent years, and I think CCTV has made night buses a bit safer, at least I never see any trouble on them these days.

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:26 (9 years ago) Permalink

lol lol lol!!!!!

again, its hard not to laugh when you are subject to the whims of a properly deregulated market outside of london. First Groups bus fares went up 4 times in a year in s yorks, now its 1.50 a single on first buses. still 1.20/30 in london?

as for tube fares, what is expensive about a 2.50 tube fare? in comparison to previous prices? or are you assessing the cost of labour, infrastructure, distance travelled etc etc and concluding that it is overpriced?

ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

as for tube fares, what is expensive about a 2.50 tube fare? in comparison to previous prices? or are you assessing the cost of labour, infrastructure, distance travelled etc etc and concluding that it is overpriced?

-- ambrose (ambrosewhit...), February 14th, 2006.

what's expensive is, it's expensive! let someone else do the math. but yes 'distance travelled' being about 2-3 miles, it does seem out of proportion.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:33 (9 years ago) Permalink

I've never seen any trouble on a bus in London ever. If you think night buses in London are dodgy, you should have tried spending most of your adolescent Friday and Saturday nights getting the night bus from Glasgow to Paisley at George Square.

still 1.20/30 in london?

It's now £1.50. Considering that, what 4 years ago(?), local journeys were 70p, I'd say that is somewhat above the rate of inflation.

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:33 (9 years ago) Permalink

are you assessing the cost of labour, infrastructure, distance travelled etc etc and concluding that it is overpriced?

another factor to consider might be the *vast fucking profits* made by the operator too?

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

But Londoners moaning about having the best transport system in Britain is a bit boring, I agree

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

but maybe justified on a thread of this name?

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:36 (9 years ago) Permalink

It would tend to encourage that response

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

How does one get to this 'outside London'? Are you talking about the end of the Central Line or that Zone B nonsense at the end of the Metropolitan Line?

Bendy Bus 38 on diversion Saturday. Confused the hell out of me. KEN OUT! etc.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:41 (9 years ago) Permalink

It's now £1.50. Considering that, what 4 years ago(?), local journeys were 70p, I'd say that is somewhat above the rate of inflation.

But 80p on Oyster or Carnet.

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

... and what if you don't use public transport every day? If you're unemployed or an OAP (do they get concessions)?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

my oyster seems to subtract £1 on the bus. must ask tfl.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

... or a part time worker?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

I just think it's a fucking crime the amount of money commuters are expected to pay. If I worked in London, it would cost me around about £16-£25 to travel a few miles from Hitchin into the capital every single day. This might just about be justified if the service was fast and efficient. However I abject to the fact that these people are swiping up to a third of commuters' wages for the privilege of standing* with some guy's armpit in their face and being *ahem* "whisked" along at a comparatively laconic rate over a very short distance. And that's if your train actually turns up**, or if the elusively crap ticket machine decides to give you a ticket as opposed to swallowing your cash card.
Why exactly does it cost so much just to traverse a small area of this tiny island? Why is it so unreliable? Why are there so few trains? Why, if I'm out in London, am I stranded if I decide to stay out after midnight? Why are the staff so rude all the time? Why don't they have a ticket barrier that stops people dodging fares? Why don't the ticket machines ever work? Why is there never more than one person selling tickets at a time? Why are the trains so slow?
Tear it down and start again, I reckon. Antiquated bollocks run by a bunch of retarded money-grubbing jerks.

*or sitting down on the floor where they get kicked
** for many people, they won't know their train isn't coming until several minutes after the fact since all the video terminals are fucked

Vintage Latin (dog latin), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

£1 between 7:30am and 9:30am

OAPs get freedom passes and their are concessionary fares for Jobseekers/New Deal

Not having an oyster of some sort is foolish

Ed (dali), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:44 (9 years ago) Permalink

Concessionary fares for Jobseekers/New Deal? Are you sure?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

I rode the new DLR extension to George V t'other day. I love the DLR. I like the look of the new 'Millennium' park by the Thames Barrier.

Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

that's fkn typical that the fares are 20p higher *when you're most likely to us it*. it makes the 80p claim a load of old toss.

The Man Without Shadow (Enrique), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 11:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

>> Concessionary fares for Jobseekers/New Deal? Are you sure?

I never heard of this when I was signing on, but that was a couple of years ago.

Colonel Poo (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 11:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think you gradually become immune. It's every bit as shit as before, but I'm just another cockneyfied zombie now.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 11:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

I don't have a monthly Travelcard - I did for a few years but I figured with the monotony of my public transport usage (and tending towards going out in the car at weekends) I wasn't getting my money's worth, so I switched to Oyster Pre-Pay. Inbetween I had a spell of Bus Pass + Pre-Pay top-up, which worked nicely for the occasional Tube journey.

Now I just get the X68 both ways (long walk at the Zone 1 end, but I probably need it) and tend to spend around £30-35/month. (Z1-3 Travelcard is £100/mo, Z1-2 is £85/mo [would allow me to use buses outside Z2 but not rail], All Zone Bus Pass is £52/mo).

The capping of Oyster Pre-Pay so that you never pay more than an equivalent daily Travelcard or Bus Pass if you find yrself bus- and Tube-hopping is a nice feature. Now, if they'd just install Oystercard readers at SE London surburban rail stations...

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 11:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

we're in the age now where a black and white sign that said DON'T HOLD THE DOORS OPEN, IT DELAYS THE TRAIN would be welcome

doing my Objectives, handling some intense stuff (LocalGarda), Thursday, 13 August 2015 13:02 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

in the age or at the age

ledge, Thursday, 13 August 2015 13:02 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

little from column a little from column b

doing my Objectives, handling some intense stuff (LocalGarda), Thursday, 13 August 2015 13:04 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

there's one about trying not to be violently sick all over the carriage, and to hold it in until the next stop if at all possible

though you might be violently ill
it would be much politer still
if you could wait until the next stop
before puking the contents of your guts up

Neil S, Thursday, 13 August 2015 13:06 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

^ my own work, v sorry to all and to TFL also

Neil S, Thursday, 13 August 2015 13:06 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Don't vomit
On the tube carriage floor
That's what
The night bus is for

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 13 August 2015 13:07 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

The Northern escalator has reopened, though, so there's finally an end to that ridiculous walk.

aw well you missed out on finding the fun shortcut for this one, which they eventually started marking, so if you followed enough 'no access to the northern line' signs you'd find a 'northern line this way' sign

Merdeyeux, Thursday, 13 August 2015 13:16 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

I noticed that on Sunday, when I had to get to the Angel before a set time, couldn't bus it because I needed to reload my Oystercard and was worried about WALKING WALKING WALKING between Piccadilly and Northern lines. It was *concerning* how happy it made me not to have to deal with that palaver any more.

slideshow bob (suzy), Thursday, 13 August 2015 13:23 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

xposts

a few years back i was on the tube at christmas, like the last week paean to sodom and gomorrah, going from oxford street to bethnal green. and there was this one guy who was a shell of himself, like swaying everywhere, hanging onto the bars, most of the seats were full but it was just me and him in the space by the doors. anyway he began to lurch a bit more and soon by about holborn he puked out the doors when they opened. it was horrible but ultimately the mood i was in i felt kind of sorry for him, there were few people getting on, i guess when they saw him.

anyway we got to like chancery lane and he did the same thing, puked out the doors. then this american guy who was sitting down was like "dude that is fucking disgusting, don't puke on the goddamn TOOB" (i swear he said it like this) - and the guy could barely speak, he was prob trying to say i'm sorry but he was locked inside his own body, and this american got him and really berated him, then took like an empty mcdonalds bag off his gf and was like "dude that is fucking horrible, puke in the goddamn bag, you're a fucking mess" etc, really obnoxious.

so i decided this was a bit off and i told him to leave him alone, he's obviously in bits etc, he doesn't need a lecture. and the american was like "oh you think it's okay to puke on the goddamn TOOB, oh yeah you do?" and i was just thinking get a life or whatever.

anyway there was that silence that descends after somebody speaks to another person on the tube and i was sort of basking in at least having told this moron off. a minute had maybe passed when the american guy's gf just gurgled and puked all over the floor.

when i asked him, as i exited, if he should perhaps ask our friend for the mcdonalds bag back, i almost felt like there had to be a god.

doing my Objectives, handling some intense stuff (LocalGarda), Thursday, 13 August 2015 13:24 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

I've been using the lift shortcut for the Northern line - eventually they added some kind of guilt trippy sign to it, like "Do NOT use this unless you're disabled or old"

Chuck_Tatum, Thursday, 13 August 2015 13:26 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

xp LOL karma!

slideshow bob (suzy), Thursday, 13 August 2015 13:37 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

xxp justice! Though possible puking guy was the cause of puking gf?

Neil S, Thursday, 13 August 2015 13:42 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

could be i guess. it was definitely that real lairy time of year, possibly the last thurs or friday before xmas

doing my Objectives, handling some intense stuff (LocalGarda), Thursday, 13 August 2015 13:44 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

That is a story, that stays with you.

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 13 August 2015 13:48 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

yeah it's definitely in my fairly competitive top 10

doing my Objectives, handling some intense stuff (LocalGarda), Thursday, 13 August 2015 13:49 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

TOOB

conrad, Thursday, 13 August 2015 14:08 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

silly americans, we all know it's pronounced 'choob'

Merdeyeux, Thursday, 13 August 2015 14:18 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

The district line is like meandering conservatory, with a slightly weak but pleasant ale on the table

saer, Thursday, 13 August 2015 14:24 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

For those who have never traveled through the underground yet open air line, here is a short section near Sloane Square

saer, Thursday, 13 August 2015 14:28 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Is there one for holding doors open? I don't mind the rhymes as much as the terrifying twee smiley faces tbh.

The first time I saw this poster I was irrationally angry about the lack of rhyme (in my accent anyway) between 'doors' and 'cause'.

What's the worst Tube line for summer heat?

There were a couple articles about this during the heat wave. Unsurprisingly Central Line takes top spot in both.
http://www.citymetric.com/transport/which-london-s-hottest-tube-line-1186
http://londonist.com/2015/07/itd-be-illegal-to-transport-cattle-in-these-temperatures

salsa shark, Friday, 14 August 2015 07:47 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

LG, that story is ALL TIME

Credit: howtokeepapositiveattitudedotcom (stevie), Friday, 14 August 2015 08:06 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

In the fine McGonagall tradition tbh

imago, Friday, 14 August 2015 11:41 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

McGonagall wasn't contemptuous of his audience... afaik!

The Tony Hart Land (Tom D.), Friday, 14 August 2015 11:43 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

I never get the tube if I can avoid it but these poems really make my blood boil whenever I do, and btw the doors one above is a lot better than most of them.

The Tony Hart Land (Tom D.), Friday, 14 August 2015 11:48 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

What does it mean when it says that obstructing the doors can cause 'damage, hurt and pain'? I assume 'damage' doesn't mean injury to people, because this is covered under 'hurt and pain'. But is it possible to damage the train doors (or the opening/closing mechanism) by obstructing them? I've not heard of this but maybe it's true. The old-fashioned warning (printed on the doors and never changed for decades) used to say 'obstructing the doors causes delay and can be dangerous'. No mention of damage.

dubmill, Friday, 14 August 2015 12:17 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

look mate - it wouldn't work as a poem without the damage bit

conrad, Friday, 14 August 2015 12:25 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

'personal property'?

anvil, Friday, 14 August 2015 12:47 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Hurt and Pain seem kind of the same thing unless Hurt is referring to embarrassment at dropping a hot coffee over your orla kiely bag, damaging it, and feeling embarrassed as your situation is taken in by a carriage of people who didnt obstruct the doors, hurt because you know it brightened their day, they wanted it to happen to you, they felt you deserved it, and also the nagging sensation they were right, how could you have been so stupid

anvil, Friday, 14 August 2015 12:51 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

see, provoking this kind of deep critical analysis proves it is good poetry

Merdeyeux, Friday, 14 August 2015 13:23 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Ah, the Taylor Swift argument

imago, Friday, 14 August 2015 13:24 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

'personal property'?

Yes, probably that, thinking about it. (And I like your interpretation of 'hurt and pain', as well.)

dubmill, Friday, 14 August 2015 13:25 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

This is the one I was thinking of:

Bit strong but in my heart I support the cull implicit in the poster.

Also support the implicit judgement upthread that people committing wrong-direction "parkour" are very very very rarely as good at is as they think.

Andrew Farrell, Sunday, 16 August 2015 12:06 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

Sadie Frost keeping it real at 50 years old:

She loves going on the Tube to meditate. “Even if you’re really crushed and standing and sweltering and uncomfortable, it’s a good exercise, to practise being at peace in a situation that maybe isn’t peaceful.”

(The rest of the incredibly gushing article at thttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11798138/sadie-frost-interview-health-depression-turning-50.html )

quixotic yet visceral (Bob Six), Sunday, 16 August 2015 12:34 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

thanks, Fizzles, for that excellent article!

Still ploughing through this thread having returned from holiday, but want to echo that

Let's go, FIFA! (Nasty, Brutish & Short), Wednesday, 19 August 2015 23:05 (1 week ago) Permalink


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