funky house sceptics, let me draw your attention to this

I dunno, you gotta remember that under the offbeat-soca snares there's a regular 4/4 pulse in these tracks. Singers can just as easily lock to that.

Sure, but on a track like, say, "Do You Mind", where you've got both the 4X4 and the pulse, the rhythm ends up sounding busy in a dance music sense (nothing wrong with that of course!) - it sounds like good unusual catchy vocal house rather than pop per se.

When I say "strip back" the beat I literally mean "very few hits in the bar". Something like "Natty" for example may be "spare" in the sense of not much going on overall but the beat is very complicated.

"Hey Hey" is an unusual case though - it's not very housier-than-thou itself! The reason it's honorary funky is that amazing hailstorm on a tin roof snare cross-pattern throughout - no wonder Devine Collective make it the centrepiece of their absolutely bonkers "House Girls Part 8".

i wasnt saying anyone should sing over natty - how incredibly weird would that be - but that the approach in breaking down funkys staple rhythmic structure is one that producers could apply to tracks with vocalists.

... And they do - check Funkystepz's "For You" for example. But a tune like that is gonna have difficulty becoming a chart hit, even though I may find it very catchy.

Praps... though as with the "why dont funky divas blow up" discussion i think too much emphasis here is placed on the actual music and not on the music industry mechanics: A&R, marketing, PR, styling etc. Things blow up because people spend money on them and get them onto mainstream channels (as much as i wish that wasnt true).

Absolutely... which is only one reaoson why complaining about funky not producing pop stars seems odd to me!

reading titchy's thoughts on these matters has coincidentally led to the realisation that a funky refix of mya's 'whatever bitch' is u&k.

Love this btw.

i think whatever bitch would be seen as too crude for the funky scene.

on a similar tip, that funky remix of take it back to the 80s is pretty great.

http://www.uk-funky.com/ukfunky_previews_346.htm

The funky scene has ended up caniballising itself a bit - got the money and ran as quickly as possible. A big problem is none of the singers I work with want to be seen as "funky" singers; rather, they have a hit, then try and use that as a platform to elevate them to different stuff. If you use something as such an obvious stepping stone then where's the pride in what you do as a genre? Grime, dubstep, garage, they all had people in the scene that were lauded and worshipped as being champions, but I just don't see that in funky as much.

p.s. I'm one half of Mischief Makers (track 7 on the Reflex mix), we tried to go against the grain a bit by stripping it back and upping the soul...

thanks for posting. but what money have they taken and run with? i didnt think there was much money in funky!

i agree about the pride thing but hasnt that always been an issue in uk dance music scenes? thats interesting about the inside-scene worship but maybe its cos no one seems that consistent? people seem to be releasing a lot more tracks to djs just cos its easier to do these days (eg - tim f could prob come up with a list of about 30 ill blu tracks) but it means theyre not necessarily all going to be that special (regardless of what tim f says).

Apologies for not taking more seriously the devastating critiques of people who come onto this thread only to complain about not feeling stuff. If my crime is being one of the only people here with the enthusiasm to actually listen to all this stuff then I'm not gonna feel that guilty.

Grime, dubstep, garage, they all had people in the scene that were lauded and worshipped as being champions, but I just don't see that in funky as much.

Name a singer in 2-step that didn't do this exactly.

Funky had some good paydays for people, don't forget you saw about 4-5 singles signed, a healthy live scene, remixes for majors, compilations - people got paid very well off it and some still do. But whereas the scenes I mentioned had pioneers, aspirational characters who had a clear vision and modus operandi for the scene, funky just seems to have run itself ragged in a short amount of time.

But Tim, I definitely don't want to sound like the bearer of bad news, as there's a huge amount of great music out there. It just seems like what the DJs play and what the people want, isn't that music. Am I wrong?

I don't understand your question about the singer?

he means didnt most 2 step vocalists do the same thing? ie start off on garage, but want to 'progress' to other styles? (ie craig david, ms dynamite, etc etc).

mistydubs do you think the scene has really run itself ragged so soon? cos when i listen to recent marcus nasty or say, petchy shows, even though i think there is still a lot of so-so material, theres also a lot of great stuff being made too, even if funkys not maintained quite the same standard of anthems it came out the gate with.

Of course most vocalists start in one scene and branch out - however most singers I've encountered in funky are petrified of being labelled as a "funky" artist. There doesn't seem that pride there that existed within garage or other genres of where you come from. When I was talking about a champion in the scene, I mean DJs or a club night or an organisation - i'm not saying that they should control the scene but dubstep's a great example; the likes of Benga, Hatcha, Geeneus and FWD helped to build the scene from a night with 50 people to one of the most popular worldwide genres since D&B.

I think the initial burst of anthems has now left a bit of a vacuum - the crowd want the big tunes but don't pick up on new stuff too hot, which makes it in danger of flagging. However we are seeing something similar with bassline which retains quite a strong following up North and with funky still being the club music of choice, there could be a trend of it going back underground and becoming stronger.

Of course most vocalists start in one scene and branch out - however most singers I've encountered in funky are petrified of being labelled as a "funky" artist.

Again, I'm wondering if you can name a single 2-step singer for whom this wasn't also true.

Surprise surprise, singers don't want to be tied down to a scene which is not about singing ultimately...

^^shola ama...wasn't she always a hardcore garage girl that counted against her when garage fell out of favour ?

There are lot of upskirt shots in that Roll Deep video...

geeneus, ms dynamite, katy b, banger.

Yeah "Lights On" is great! Though I think primarily for Katy B's chorus.

Also loving that Funk Butcher tune "Pull Me Close" that Marcus has been playing - the beat is nuts, but more just in terms of its mastery than in any kind of ostentatious complexity or edginess. Though the song raises an issue for me w/r/t where the tipping point is in funky's relationship with broken beat etc - like, at what point do tunes begin to resemble something like Bugz in the Attic so much that it loses that funky vibe? "Pull Me Close" is effortlessly great, but I go back and forth on Swindle's "No More" (perhaps because the vocals sound so much like Amy Winehouse that the resemblance becomes oppressive).

BTW re Shola Ama - girl did full-blown R&B albums and everything, her fortunes were only tied to garage insofar as her R&B career never really took off.

i think it's just contextual innit. 'no more' on its own is most certainly borderline iffy but i don't recall it ever rankling in situ, and not on a marcus set at least. (has he ever in his life dropped a bollock as heinous as whatever that mosca tune was at 40mins on the funkbutcher-hosted 28th april set btw).

this sort of thing is pretty much why it's practically impossible to really have the sort of top-down funky ombudsmanship mistydubs is lobbying for - shorn of the red herring of its basic structure it's simultaneously everything and nothing almost as its own strand of music. (hence why i rep hard for the wildbunch streetsoul analogy, even if it is overdetermined somewhat.)

anyhow 'pull me close' is excellent, yeah. didn't know it was by fb so thnx!

actually 'no more' kind of has a whiff of 80s pop cheese that i think lends itself to funky a little, and away from broken beat - but what you say can apply just as easily to his 'it's ok' for instance. maybe?

re 'lights on', yeah the chorus is fab but i also feel dynamite really found the right lane on that one, less boorish and more of a tanya stephensish melodi-sneer; as a tune i might argue it's the first of its kind to marry so well the freestyle openness of the chorus with the tight ragga winding of its verses. (contrary to popular opinion i never actually had anything against the ladyraggachat funky other than its ott reception steamrollering the idea that there wasnt already plenty enough ragga already implicit in surrounding instrumental stuff - 'lights on' kind of holds your hand through that point imo.)

I am also increasingly not opposed to female Dancehall toasters on Funky tunes. I actually played a set full of them last Weds.

Still hugely, hugely leery of Funky becoming just an up tempo London centric version of Dancehall though.

I've been coming at this all from the perspective of a Broken Beat obsessive and embittered ex Grime fan. Perhaps I need to get over that.

BTW, Geeneus' newer tunes absolutely bang on a decent system, playing them out was my only way of finding that out.

i think it's just contextual innit. 'no more' on its own is most certainly borderline iffy but i don't recall it ever rankling in situ, and not on a marcus set at least. (has he ever in his life dropped a bollock as heinous as whatever that mosca tune was at 40mins on the funkbutcher-hosted 28th april set btw).

Actually I like "No More" quite a bit, it's more the other tunes on the EP that then make me retroactively start to doubt "No More" too.

That Mosca track was really bad, yeah.

re 'lights on', yeah the chorus is fab but i also feel dynamite really found the right lane on that one, less boorish and more of a tanya stephensish melodi-sneer; as a tune i might argue it's the first of its kind to marry so well the freestyle openness of the chorus with the tight ragga winding of its verses. (contrary to popular opinion i never actually had anything against the ladyraggachat funky other than its ott reception steamrollering the idea that there wasnt already plenty enough ragga already implicit in surrounding instrumental stuff - 'lights on' kind of holds your hand through that point imo.)

Agree with this. I love female dancehall funky as a general rule but I think it's probably barking up the wrong tree to try to carve it out as some kind of separate and distinct "thing" (we never did this w/r/t 2-step circa 2001 which had a not-dissimilar balance of ladyraggachat vs r&b vocals vs instrumentals vs MCs) - but then I have a kneejerk suspicion of any attempts to promote scenes-within-the-scene when it comes to UK funky.

The issue being that I think talking about funky-as-pop, funky-as-R&B, funky-as-dancehall, funky-as-grime etc inevitably obscures the fact that so much of the really amazing stuff defies that kind of characterisation, and it's halfway the point of uk funky to regularly throw up such defiance - which of the prior categories would "Touch Her In The Morning" fall into, for example?

ooh, talking of raggafunky -

http://soundcloud.com/aswad/aswad-city-lock-roska-remix-radio-edit

why have i only heard footloose play this (once)? why is the shitty breakage remix the popular one? as always i blame mistajam.

ZOMG funkystepz 'rude girl'!!!

http://www.zshare.net/audio/76263336166cdaf7/

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f14/snouts/catshockedomggif.gif

Ha ha, love the funkystepz compulsion to make weirdo part twos to all their records, dudes have way too much time on their hands.

were i forced to take a guess at which of them are generally responsible for that trend, based on names alone i would surely go for rené & stimpy.

http://funkystepz.blogspot.com/2008/12/bassline-music-it-will-never-be-popular.html

haha did you ever see this btw? i mean it is from 2008, but still.

i spose judging by that, dj naughty, 'windrush', and countless cutesy vocal cuts it seems fair to say i seem to like my funky cocktail with an umbrella in it.

strange that sticky's only contribution so far in this heady climate has been bombastic old jumeriah.

Actually I get the impression that renay is more on their housey side (hence the anti-bassline rant)? I know pretty much nothing about their breakdown of responsibilities though... Like, there's that really fabulous deep tune that Marcus has been playing constantly recently - with the whistles and the two piano notes and the dub chords floating over the top. I can see this being the same producer as "Trinity Hill" but it would seem very strange if it's the same producer as "Rude Boy"/"Rude GIrl". Although actually on the May 5 show it suddenly has this awesome quivering synth chord in the second half (presumably yet another gratuitous but brilliant part 2) so who knows.

Speaking of umbrellas I am sure you will love whatever track 16 of Champion's "8 Round Knock-Out" mix is, but I have no idea what it is. Will have to upload it for you.

no worries, got it. the one that's a little like a ukg refix of the riff in the el-b song? i do like it but the sharp garage edges kinda pop the funky bubble i think.

oh did you mean 18 perhaps? but then that's a familiar funkystepz one you'd probably know the name of.

hey btw do you know who done track 6, aka the 'say yes' song i will never understand why isnt bigger than the turgid same-named ill blu one.

if hard house banton should ever release 'colonel' it oughta be a 12 with a locked groove cos i think i could sit through that an inhumanly long time.

funkystepz fanfic doesn't seem to be drawing the punters in - maybe it's time we seized the means of production

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4009/4615049299_7a5511d843.jpg

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

the one that's a little like a ukg refix of the riff in the el-b song? i do like it but the sharp garage edges kinda pop the funky bubble i think.

Yeah it does have sharp garage edges - maybe I'm just so much of a 2-step-nostalgist that that appeals to me anyway.

hey btw do you know who done track 6, aka the 'say yes' song i will never understand why isnt bigger than the turgid same-named ill blu one.

Yes! You mean the Mike Delinquent Project track (also called "Say Yes", indeed). It's brilliant! One of my favourite poppy funky tracks of the year.

The Ill Blu "Say Yes" is one of their weaker tracks I think. I'm starting to think they're much better at remixes than new tracks when it comes to vocal tunes - Cheryl Cole/Craig David/Sabrina Washington is a run of pure fire.

BTW your most recent post won't load at work so I currently have no idea what you're excited about.

Maxin Funkystepz has been pimping specialised dubs of "For You" on facebook, and I was half-tempted to order one saying "Skykicking, this special's For You..." - but then it occurred to me that I couldn't really leak it without getting caught.

He's excited about the Lil Silva release on Night Slugs at the end of the month. It looks good! Lots of nice tracks...

i love ill blu's "say yes" - it's not new though, it's a cover of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCCGIXME164

are you sure re: cheryl cole, tim? haven't heard it but surely not even ill blu could transform the original sufficiently, there's so little to work with. i'm developing a really strong antipathy towards cheryl cole though.

Ha ha the fact that their other big remixes are for Sabrina Washington's "OMG" and Craig David's "One More Lie" should tell you they have a knock with the old British sow's ear R&B thing.

The remix is great, very plasticky and squirmy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPW_MpmgENs

i just bought a lil silva 12 on night slugs the other day. looks like i wasted my money as i think my one was only a 2 tracker. fuckers.

dunno why you guys keep blanking the ill blu roll deep remix, it's mindblowing. i might also argue it's one of the very few occasions with them where the original vocals don't seem a little superfluous to the domineering virtuoso production - not that i don't enjoy the others nevertheless.

also v glad to see mike delinquent's fully on dis ting. 'dancehall' is great too and he's always had a pretty varied and generous pop ear since mid-00s ukg times - 'my destiny' still bangs to this day (as he seems keen to remind everyone lately.)

btw excitement weren't quite the main thrust of the silva vs slugs gag but yeah, i like what i've heard, it should be good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMBP5gskJew

him and everyone else in the scene still look like my little ponies compared to this though. 'AAAARD.

FNKY sounds like the new aerobics beat ala ZUMBA...

so if you take away the galloping latin beat is it still funky ? Anyone got/doing tunes that don't have THAT beat ?

dunno why you guys keep blanking the ill blu roll deep remix, it's mindblowing. i might also argue it's one of the very few occasions with them where the original vocals don't seem a little superfluous to the domineering virtuoso production - not that i don't enjoy the others nevertheless.

This is awesome also but (a) I need a better quality version, and (b) it falls a little outside my point re R&B/Pop remixes.

i've only heard the ill blu roll deep remix on youtube, shitty quality admittedly but i wasn't inspired to seek out a good version. the original is appalling.

did we mention swindle's who said funk ep?! we really should - pretty tip-top r&b funky business w/vocals from miss fire, natalie may etc.

also, it can't be understated just how incredible princess nyah's "pon de floor" remix is - between that and her "pass out" freestyle (I'LL MAKE U PASS OUT - U SEE THE HEELS AND THE LEGS BUT NO ARSE OUT), i pretty much want her to take on every beat going right now.

This mix cd is massive! Been following this guys mix cd series for over a year now! Check it out...

T-GULLY PRESENTS: UK FUNKY, DUB HOUSE & MUTATION'S VOLUME 1 (LATE MAY 2010)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/akh879

TRACKLIST

1. Busy Signal vs Altered Natives - Rass Out De Style Deh
2. Apple - The african man said GO!
3. DJ GREGORY/GREGOR SALTO feat DAMA PANCHA/DJ MANKILA - Vem Rebola (Oh mix)
4. Aswad - City Lock (Roska Remix)
5. Sx - Woooo (Funky House Remix)
6. SHANIQUE - TAKE IT LOW
7. Greyman - XZero
8. Redlight feat. Roses Gabor - Stupid
9. Martyn - Hear Me (Zomby Mix)
10. Warrior One - King Riddim feat. Lady Chann
11. LR Groove - Just Believe
12. Fugative - Crush (Scratcha Dva Remix)
13. Greyman - World Famous (T GULLY Dub)
14. Gramophonedzie - Why Dont You (greenmoneys gramopho***ied remix)
15. Lil Silva - Against Yaself
16. FRENCH FRIES - Senta
17. Geeneus - Goodlife (Refix) (Feat. Katy B)
18. Loko - Scarlet House
19. Pinch feat. Yolanda - Get Up (RSD Mix)
20. Hackman - Always (Brackles Remix)
21. GIRL UNIT - IRL
22. Nycole Valentina - Flatline (Dumplin Mix)
23. Ryan Rich - Funkin like it
24. Spooky vs. Vybz Kartel - Punanny Buddy
25. Apple - Stop biteing me
26. MCLEAN - FINALLY IN LOVE(Champion Remix)
27. MELE - Bombay
28. Roll Deep Ft Jodie Connor - Good Times (Ill Blu Remix)
29. Naughty Raver Feat Kaysee - Show Me
30. Marcus Nasty & BassBoy - Shitta
31. Don Haffer - Phone Home
32. Aggro Santos Feat. Kimberly Wyatt - Candy (Crazy Cousinz Funky Mix)

Download from http://www.clubsignal.com/mix7.php

Tracklist

01. Geeneus ft. Katy B – Good Life
02. Roll Deep – Good Times (Ill Blu Remix)
03. Majestic MC – In The V.I.P.
04. Majestic MC ft. Skepta & B-Live – In The V.I.P. (BBK Remix)
05. Princess Nyah – Pon De Floor (The Remix)
06. Rapid – Go Rapid
07. Lil' Silva – No Hooks
08. J-Labelz ft. Naughty Natz – Touch Me
09. Chuck Dem Gee ft. Roch'L Royale – Round & Round
10. Princess Nyah – Butterflies
11. Roska ft. Nikki – Energy
12. Shakka – We'yoo
13. Chocolate Doll – Into The Blue
14. S-Tee ft. Tasha – Touch On Me (FunkyStepz Remix)
15. Champion – Lighter
16. Redlight ft. Roses Gabor – Stupid
17. DJ Eastwood – U Ain't Ready
18. Princess Nyah ft. Griminal & Ghetts – Hooligans (Remix)
19. Ill Blu – Overdose
20. Wiley ft. Jodie Connor & J2K – Electric Boogaloo (Find A Way)
21. El-B ft. Natasha – I Feel
22. Jodie Aysha – Pozer (Zer Zer Zer) (Todz & Beatz UK Funky Mix)
23. Nycole Valentina – Flatline (Dumplin' Mix)
24. Addictive – Bad Girl (Champion Remix)
25. DJ Seany B ft. Tonia – Tell Me Would Ya
26. Princess Nyah – So Good
27. The Fives ft. Vanya Taylor – It's What You Do
28. Lemar ft. Scratchy & Breeze – Coming Home (Roll Deep Remix)
29. SMI ft. Nivine – In My Soul
30. Screama ft. Farah – I Can't
31. Target & Danny Weed ft. Shola Ama, J2K & Wiley – Trouble
32. Marvell – Marvell Music

Using "Natty" as some kind of example in against my argument makes no sense to me, it's a great groove but obviously would be pretty much impossible to sing over.

Famous last words...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mYcpDO6s1Q

In other news, having now heard the "Good Times" remix in high definition I can cosign its massiveness.

tbf the chords (sampled from where, anyone? - nggh this will bug me for days) on that 'natty' mix are doing alot in the vocal's favour.

tim i'm not sure if i understood what you meant when you said the 'good times' mix fell outside your point above? afaict i don't think it does.

marcus-wise this has been another successful week in the "what beatific wonderment will rankin come out with when he hears the screama & farah tune as if for the first time every time" stakes.

really really love the dummy-sell in the aramac 'hurt inside' tune played at 27 mins where you're expect a sledgehammer drop and get sweet 2step canderel instead. also who is "khaneo" with that twilit number at 95 mins?

http://soundcloud.com/djnaughtymusic/mas-que-nada-performed-by-dj-naughty

naughty here not really helping himself with general conceptions of him being a strange fellow.