funky house sceptics, let me draw your attention to this

In general or just on the evidence of "Fya"?

About Face, probably the best halfstep-meets-funky tune is Scratcha DVA's "Hard House" from last year, but I can't listen to that Silkie remix at work so I'm not sure if we're talking about the same idea.

don't love them in general, but i'm not so crazy about 'fya' either

Say Tim...you dont have a spare link for 'hard house' lying round do you ?

I'm pretty sure it'll be the same sort of idea. Be interesting to hear the DVA take on it. The thing i like with silkie is, he's got the rolling snare sorted from his days puttering around with breakbeats.

I wasn't too sold on that Silkie refix. I'm not really sure if it's just because I'm overly familiar with the original, or what though.

Finally bought Windrush Riddim off of ukfunky.com, along with a bunch of other tunes.

Geiom's "Sugar Coated Lover" is lovely as well..!

hah...yeah i coulda done without the funky beat switch, its more the idea that intrigues me. So for an Austin Texan like 'dubbel dutch' to combine the two is inspiring in itself.

"Dirty Funk" is ace but I have a feeling it's from last year? Maybe not though. What's the track it samples?

found it. (says a lot about devine that i wouldnt have immediately ruled out them making it themselves, but pilfering eurotrash is oddly pleasing too)

veimateus 7 months ago
Totalmente prostitutas

^ new band name btw

Ha of course. Is this def. "Dirty Funk" though as I've heard another Devine track that's also called that, more of a grimey one. Though maybe it's another part 1/part 2/part 8/part 73 deal. How good is "Touch Her In The Morning" also.

They should make a release of all the parts of House Girls. Or anything.

Is anyone else enjoying Sunday Roast? A lot of his (?) stuff either tends to be interesting instrumental workouts or cheesy (but enjoyable) vocal numbers.

Also, kind of loving Smoove Kriminal these days. The Represent EP from the tail end of last year is wonderful... title track appeared on Oneman's Rinse mix for about 50 seconds.

iirc i just assumed cos the devine fella is on the intro saying "and it's dirty funk", but he could have been speaking generally. although there is a producer who goes by that name as well right? - but i'm fairly certain it was mr devine.

'touch her' is ridiculous yes. really they may as well be the only producers in the world for all i care, until i remember all the other good ones.

talking of DEVINE (how's this for a segue bitches!) i love that "you think ur a man but i think ur a boy" nu-soul number marcus plays and duly claim my rightful place as the only herb to ask who it's by.

that tune's great but I feel that it combines some excellent lyrics with some bad ones in the verses, like they had an all night writing session but still had some placeholder lines, then thought "fuck it let's have dinner" and just sent what they'd done straight to marcus.

The thing with Devine Collective is that there really is no unifying pattern to all their tunes beyond a general aceness and a kind of "effortlessly sums up the spirit of uk funky" vibe.

well i did say it was nu-soul didn't i...

i think perhaps a sense of effortlessness kind of is the unifying pattern with devine actually, and is the thing that sets them apart in fact - this sudden windswept exhilaration and wild elemental feeling of looseness they have with all their stuff that seems to embrace funky's fundamental libidinal urges (r&b sensuality, house emancipation, grime violence, whatever) in a more powerful and direct way each time than the more industrial scenius opportunism of other outfits (most obviously funkystepz) who could also be seen to encompass funky's myriad mores to an extent.

which isn't to say that funkystepz sound laboured or anything, i hasten to add - besides the merits of their more successful tracks individually there also remains a joy in their rapid-response machinism that speaks of the brightness of the scene as a whole.

Yr contrast works i think - devine collective tracks all sound different to eachother but not in a way that leans out towards other genres like Funkystepz tracks do.

yeah, i mean i still feel they're equally open to genre (or rather equally represent funky's openness) but devine less so on a purely morphological tip than with funkystepz. does that make sense, i dunno.

i retract my nu-soul jibe btw (tru though it is), i quite like the sweetly chiding simplicity of that tune as is i decided. now i'm sitting here wondering if a funky refix of res 'golden boys' wouldn't be a clanger.

dunno, but a funky refix of latrelle's "dirty girl" would work excellently.

yeah, i mean i still feel they're equally open to genre (or rather equally represent funky's openness) but devine less so on a purely morphological tip than with funkystepz. does that make sense, i dunno.

perfect sense - devine have a more "digested" sound whereas funkystepz can feel very lumpy (though not in a bad way, or at least mostly not) - here's a dancehall reference, there's a grime reference, there's a bassline reference.

haha, that reminds me i finally found that 'dirty girl' remix with the bowie fame interpolation last year like a decade after reading you mention it. real weight off my shoulders obv.

she also randomly came back a couple of months ago with a rubbish guetta disco knockoff song btw!

Can you send it back to me?? I lost it in about 2003!

bet ya know that bitch over there

any bedroom/promo mixes going around the old twitbook lately? (whatever happened to faze?) i've been listening to this today, it's good stuff.

http://www.filefront.com/16302659/DJ-Reflex-Funky-Vol-5.zip/

01. Jodie Aysha - I'm A Pozer (Todz & Beatz Remix) [Reflex Dubplate]
02. Lil Silva - No Hooks
03. Addictive - Bad Girl (Champion Remix)
04. S-Tee Ft. Tasha - Touch On Me (FunkyStepz Remix)
05. Ill Blu - Overdose
06. Fuzzy Logik - Ocean (Remix)
07. Mischief Makers Ft. Natalie May - Play My Game
08. Princess Nyah - So Good
09. Nycole Valentina - Flatline (Dumplin Remix)
10. Miss Fire - Think I'm In Love (Dubplate Wonder Remix)
11. Wireless Sound - Chicago
12. Screama Ft. Merkury Ft. Farah - Kiss Me
13. Todz & Beatz Ft. Branjae - Mystery (Roska Remix)
14. Sacha - Cheat On You (Naughty Raver Remix)
15. DJ Naughty - Goosebumps
16. Major Lazer - Pon De Floor (Princess Nyah Remix)
17. DJ Eastwood - You Ain't Ready (Funky Remix)
18. KCat - Epileptic (The Mike Delinquent Project Remix)
19. T2 Ft. H Boogie - Better Off As Friends (Lil Silva Remix)
20. Chocolate Doll - Into The Blue
21. The Mike Delinquent Project - Dancehall
22. Brasstooth - Pleasure (Paleface Remix)
23. Tania Foster - Supawoman (Digital Dubstar Remix)
24. The Mike Delinquent Project - Stampede
25. DJ Seany B Ft. Tonia - Tell Me Would Ya
26. Hardhouse Banton Ft. A.L - In You
27. S-Tee - Crunk
28. Sophia Romain - If I Never (Diamond Remix)
29. Miss Fire - Confusion Beat
30. Andy Jay & S-Tee Ft. Tasha - Take Me Up
31. Sacha - I Need Love (Altered Natives Remix)
32. Barber Bizzle Ft. JJ Soul - Got That Something (Remix)
33. Kyla - Don't Play With My Heart (Reflex Dubplate)

actually it's not good stuff, it's RAGING FLAMES that i don't know where to even start with.

http://soundcloud.com/malloy/volume11

this is a good recap of some stuff too, albeit slightly less recent. that banton/ al bennett number it starts with (also #24 on the flexx mix) is delicious, love it.

Thanks for the link, rtc. I've enjoyed Reflex's mixes in the past... only had up to volume 4.

Does anyone know what happened to that Hard House Banton EP that was supposed to come out in March? There was even a preview mix of it on youtube for a while, but now it's gone and I can't find any information at all about the release.

i was looking for that myself, i heard coldsteps promoting his track on it on a funk butcher show ages ago and it sounded good.

can hear a good selection of banton's new stuff on the kiss chosen ones mix if you havent already btw, iirc there's a recording somewhere over on the dissensus thread.

http://djs.totalkiss.com/2010/04/the-kiss-chosen-ones-the-future-of-uk-funky/

The Latrelle remix is nearly as great as my sepia-toned memory of it, thanks!

I've been listening to the DJ Reflex mix too, a bit inconsistent but the highs are so high:

03. Addictive - Bad Girl (Champion Remix)
09. Nycole Valentina - Flatline (Dumplin Remix)
12. Screama Ft. Merkury Ft. Farah - Kiss Me
16. Major Lazer - Pon De Floor (Princess Nyah Remix)
18. KCat - Epileptic (The Mike Delinquent Project Remix)
19. T2 Ft. H Boogie - Better Off As Friends (Lil Silva Remix)
21. The Mike Delinquent Project - Dancehall
22. Brasstooth - Pleasure (Paleface Remix)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzCaxZ7v6dw

very flat vocals on that clip.

looking forward to the ill blu 12 on hyperdub.

nice to see kode 9 back some proper funky producers rather than put out crap like that new lv and quarta 330 single.

Re the Ill Blu single, "Dragon Pop" is just-okay by Ill Blu standards (it's a stripped down instrumental of what later became their Suncycle/Mavado remix), but if "Bellion" is what I suspect it is it's fabulous.

"I've been listening to the DJ Reflex mix"

As have I and some of it is just total drivel. I know i have my bias towards the darker/bassier end of the spectrum and people round here like to play the '"cheese/pop" is fundamental to the nuum' card but if they do then this stuff really needs to be judged against pop, r&b and the more singer/songwriter songs it is trying to ape.

You could post-rationalise how that it's appeal is indeed how badly sung/written some of this stuff is, but to me that's missing the point: loads of this kind of pop vocal funky simply doesn't stand up against the best pop, not even nearly.

bang otm mr clark and ive been saying that for a while upthread.

it's sort of depressing that so little has come along in the past year or so that really stands up to the first funky vocal tracks i loved - "do you mind", "in the air", "falling again". the big funky r&b anthems have mostly been remixes of us r&b tracks - other than that there's kyla's "daydreaming", the sabrina washington remixes, that young nate/ill blu remix...and not much else.

i've been saying for a while that the uk urban scene is particularly dreadful at discovering/developing/supporting singers - for some reason no one seems to care about finding a british ciara or amerie or mya - all the hype goes to MCs and producers. am hoping that princess nyah and katy b's imminent work will prove me wrong here. where the hell is ny, anyway?

(also, martin - remember tanya valensi, whose "i know i luv u" you hyped a few years ago? she's got a new track on her myspace called "silence" and it's rather brill. and actual SONG.)

katy b might have a chance as geeneus actually knows about songwriting. but yeah, thats just uk urban music as a whole about not nurturing talent, even more so as this is dance music where most of the guys arent really songwriters but producers. the model here has never been about ciara or rihanna types though, hence why great vocalists over the years like kele le roc, elizabeth troy etc etc all show great potential but never really amount to much. its just the age old british black music story in a nutshell.

dont have my hopes up for nyah either though - frontline was amazing but everything else has been okay, borderline dreary.

also, what happened to ny? the gallium vocal was superb but since then, nothing.

shame none of these vocalists can really write songs themselves, cos that would make things different, but thats just standard really.

on a vocal tip i'm feeling El-B and Noodles ft Natasha "I Feel", kinda housey and skippy.

Ny did "Dangerous" last year - not as good as "Falling" but still high-standard IMO (difficult to top "Falling" really).

on a vocal tip i'm feeling El-B and Noodles ft Natasha "I Feel", kinda housey and skippy.

How astonishing.

(great tune though obv!)

I should note both Lady Fire and Farah - aka the best singers in funky at the mo - right their own songs.

Lex I get what you're saying in general about vocalists in the UK but your complaints about the lack of good tunes seem to be subject to the same weakness that you identify in the argument of people who complain about R&B having fallen off - it's punishing what's out there for not having come to your attention. I don't see how tunes like "Kiss", "Touch Me", "I Feel", "For You", "Lovers" etc. can be considered weak.

Urgh write their own songs.

I don't see how tunes like "Kiss", "Touch Me", "I Feel", "For You", "Lovers" etc. can be considered weak.

Like to hear a bit more about these...

Without wanting to get drawn into the handwringing, it does feel a bit like funky has not really thrown up any honest-to-god pop stars, or even potential pop stars (Donaeo aside).

I disagree with Lex in that there have been plenty of Ciaras but you're not going to get very far with them unless you've had a Beyonce or a Mary J first, and funky hasn't yet. That said, patience etc...

As have I and some of it is just total drivel. I know i have my bias towards the darker/bassier end of the spectrum and people round here like to play the '"cheese/pop" is fundamental to the nuum' card but if they do then this stuff really needs to be judged against pop, r&b and the more singer/songwriter songs it is trying to ape.

No one says this of course.

I think of anyone regularly posting in this thread Steve is the only person who maybe wants to view funky on pop terms.

Pretty sure I've always maintained that funky does not work on pop terms, that if you look to it for great pop songs you're gonna come away disappointed. I put it this way in relation to Ill Blu:

This of course means that on "Heartbreaker" Ill Blu aren't great pop qua pop arrangers, only great pop qua dance music arrangers - unlike an Artful Dodger or a Sunship or indeed a Crazy Cousinz, they're unwiling or unable to reduce and refine their armoury to the point where the song itself can take over, so even their most pop moments sound busy, overwhelming, musically egotistical in a way that undermines the potential for crossover. This is a problem if you're consumed with setting up universal "pop" barometers of judgment, but the question "does this work as a pop song" is always a loaded and misleading one - great pop songs are not instances of "perfect" pop so much as love letters between pop and something else. What's so appealing about Ill Blu is that they increasingly seem to approach their "pop" moments not by toning down their excesses (though earlier tunes like Princess's "Frontline" and their own "Rider" are more straightforward) but by ramping them up - the only way they're prepared to "cross over" is by being ever more ridiculously themselves.

What's true for Ill Blu specifically (though ironically they've got a bit better at "framing" pop vocals recently) is also true for the scene as a whole. The reason it doesn't produce a clutch of "great pop songs" or pop vocalists with fame and long careers is that ultimately that's not what it's aiming for - the majority of funky tracks are instrumentals and are designed to be played either without vocals or with an MC on top. Similarly trying to glom R&B values onto funky will only get you so far because it's not R&B - most of the tunes in the genre are instrumental! This is why all the funky vocalists hedge their bets by making actual R&B tunes (though inevitably they're not very good) - they recognise that singing over funky beats is highly unlikely to result in a fanbase for them outside of, well, funky fans, many of whom might be interested in the tune as a dancefloor anthem while being disinterested in the singer him or herself.

2-step actually had less vocalists/songwriters but songs were more likely to cross over as songs because the 2-step structure allowed the tunes to be stripped back musically/groovewise to the point that they came across like mildly sped-up R&B - which is why the single edit of Usher's "U Got It Bad" in Australia (not sure about elsewhere) could be basically a 2-step track and still work as R&B.

If you try this with funky - stripping back and simplifying the groove so that the vocalist takes prominence - you usually end up with vocal house, and as great as they are tunes like "In The Air" and "Falling" and "I Feel" are basically vocal house tunes (with all of the baggage that goes with vocal house from a performative perspective - vocal house creates divas rather than stars).

Funky still throws up this kind of thing fitfully but really more as an intermittent counterweight to the majority of the scene which is too rough/bass-driven/ravey/etc to properly accommodate people's pop/R&B dreams. Which is not to say you don't get vocals, but when you do they're more likely to be along the lines of Champion/Addictive's "Bad Girls" or Ill-Mana's "Kiss You" (or indeed Ill Blu's remixes of R&B tunes) - they sound like dancefloor-focused remixes of songs rather than songs per se. The song component isn't there to operate as a song per se but to provide a musical structure around which producers can festoon all their sonic dance-motivants.

(if they so choose - each year the proportion of my favourite tracks that are vocal tunes and the proportion that are instrumental slips a bit further in favour of the latter group)

In fact what I see increasingly is a brand of vocal tune where it's not clear whether the producer is trying to support or dominate the vocal - see for example Lil Silva's remix of T2's "Better Off As Friends" where he's basically trying to demolish the song. This is the kind of thing that d&b and dubstep producers have done for a long time obv; if there's a distinction it's mainly that on this tune Lil' Silva is still sufficiently committed to the idea of song-as-structure that he doesn't literally dissect and cut up the vocal (as would be done on a dubstep or d&b remix usually) but contents himself with trying to distract from it.

"How astonishing"

it's not really to be honest, i just think it's a reflection of how few amazing vocal tunes there currently are, or indeed vocal tunes that balance the rough with the smooth sufficiently. If UK funky had produced another 20 "Do You Mind" i'd be all over them.

What UK funky has done that grime did so badly is use the ruffer female MCs/vocalists so effectively. Shystie and Ill Blu, Ms Dynamite and Geeneus, Sticky, Zinc, Lil Silva and $tush, the Heatwave/funky bashment angle: it's an amazing cluster of quality.

i think the deficit of great funky vocals is partly down to the fact there arent that many bulletproof great r&b songs out at the moment either. at least with 2 step you could rely on several amazing reworks of existing r&b tunes, many of which i liked more than the originals, but with funky thats not really there, barring a handful (ill blu doing OLD aaliyah etc), and ive yet to hear funky producers really come up with the goods enough times when remixing other peoples songs to make me think theyve really got a handle on it. of course that doesnt really account for how we got do you mind, in the air, tell me, etc etc, which were quite a while back when r&b wasnt that much better, but maybe its just that funky has basically decided trackiness is the way forward, and songs are just there to provide a bit of respite during a dj set. who really needs vocals anyway, when the instrumentals - and the variation you get in funky instrumentals right now is just astounding - are so good and get everyone on the floor.

according to his myspace lil silva is working with ms dynamite :)

btw bad girl and kiss you are alright enough, but bad girl im more used to it as an instrumental and the vocal just feels tossed on. which it was most likely. i dont buy this 'funkys format isnt as malleable as 2 step' argument - its not like you cant strip back funkys rhythms. i get the feeling producers just dont WANT to or for the most part, cant be bothered. theyre more interested in riddims.

reading titchy's thoughts on these matters has coincidentally led to the realisation that a funky refix of mya's 'whatever bitch' is u&k.

u&k?

"i dont buy this 'funkys format isnt as malleable as 2 step' argument"

nor do i, the drum structures (2step and 4x4/soca) are equally adaptable to vocals or instrumentals through the use of differing arrangements, especially around how often you have drum variations/fills + enforce verse/chorus structures.

right. just listen to a track like natty - its still funky, but scratcha takes it somewhere totally different. obv a world away from do you mind, but it obv proves theres a whole world of possiblities there. and im not saying i want to hear funkstep vocals, just using that as an example.

on a sidenote, anyone else heard that cooly g track on the kode 9 dj kicks comp? one of the best and weirdest things ive heard from her.

Kyla's new video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fweyeyk39Ag A case in point for 'what do funky diva's do next...' discussion.

"i dont buy this 'funkys format isnt as malleable as 2 step' argument"

nor do i, the drum structures (2step and 4x4/soca) are equally adaptable to vocals or instrumentals through the use of differing arrangements, especially around how often you have drum variations/fills + enforce verse/chorus structures.

Rhis isn't what I was saying though. I'm saying that it's hard to reduce the impact of the rhythms to the point that they allow songs to work as songs qua songs without also making them sound pretty close to straight house ("In The Air" is an example here, indeed most of Perempay's vocal tunes are). I think even with "In The Morning" the oddness of the beat actually worked to inhibit its crossover potential. With tunes like "Sweet Like Chocolate" and "Moving Too Fast" the rhythms are incredibly simple an unobtrusive without sounding like anything other than 2-step. How do you make "simple and unobtrusive" funky that still sounds distinct from vocal house?

"How astonishing"

it's not really to be honest, i just think it's a reflection of how few amazing vocal tunes there currently are, or indeed vocal tunes that balance the rough with the smooth sufficiently. If UK funky had produced another 20 "Do You Mind" i'd be all over them.

Ha that's the second time you've read a sarcastic comment of mine totally straight Martin.

Using "Natty" as some kind of example in against my argument makes no sense to me, it's a great groove but obviously would be pretty much impossible to sing over.