Rolling Teenpop 2007 Thread

I'm gonna stick up for Duff's "Why Not," which is probably my favorite Duff song.

Does Bextor count as teen pop, or is she now artpop like Kylie?

Another tally in Gerrard's favor, Hayden Paniettiere's good track, "Your New Girlfriend," from Girl Next. That's Britney's sis Jamie in the photo montage, no teenpop (music) career to speak of yet except the theme song.

Aliana Lohan released her Xmas album while ILM was down and it's...pretty strange. Video for second-most-resoundingly-"kicked"-on-RD-last-year single (don't know which was #1) "Christmas Magic" is actually kinda disturbing, watch for the weirdly sinister reindeer and snowman at the end that coulda been stand-ins for the dog-suit guy in The Shining. More interesting/WTF is "Lohan Holiday" feat. Lindsay somewhere in the background (I think?), available here.

Apart from "Lohan Holiday" that Ali Lohan album is absolutely horrible. And even "Lohan Holiday" isn't so great, though it is pretty good, at least it has a discernable melodic hook. Lyrics are a real headscratcher though. Wasn't it "I Like Christmas" that got booted from RD, though? I might be misremembering.

I listened to/reviewed a whole boatload of teenpop Christmas songs this December. Here are links to some of the more notable ones:

Hilary Duff - "Santa Claus Lane"; Hilary Duff - "What Christmas Should Be"; Christina Aguilera - "Christmas Time"; Mariah Carey - "Miss You Most at Christmastime" (presumably you all know "All I Want For Christmas Is You" already, so I won't take the time to get a link); Cheetah Girls - "Five More Days Til Christmas" (This is the best Cheetahs songs that I've heard - er, sorry about the sound quality though); 'N Sync - "Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays"; S Club 7 - "Perfect Christmas". Those are all the songs that I reviewed that are worth listening that I could find on YouTube.

I wasn't a big fan of Hannah Montana's "Rocking Around the Christmas Tree", as I found that her voice didn't work well for the rocking tune they were going for. Maybe after she matures and her voice fills out more she'll be able to pull that stuff off, but right now it didn't sound great. Jordan Pruitt had a Christmas song too, and it was a really good little tune called "Santa Don't Stop", but for the life of me I can't find a free version for listening anywhere online.

Worth mentioning on Ali Lohan's album is a song called "Santa's Reindeer Ride", a cover of an early Amy Grant tune. Apparently, what they did is they just took the old Amy Grant song and digitally added Ali's vocals to it. Bleh, not that great of a song to start with, and Ali's vocals are way worse than Amy Grant's so the final result is not pretty.

Newest Amy Diamond single from her Still Me, Still Now album is "It Can Only Get Better". Gone is the reggae beat, this is a fairly generic sounding pop ballad backed with piano. The lyrics are still way too old for her, and she's still a great singer though. It's a really pretty song and I like it a lot. Kinda makes me tear up a bit. Can't help but think that "Don't Lose Any Sleep Over You" or "That's Life" would be better choices for a single though. Get this album a US release stat.

Finally got to hear some of Vanessa Hudgens music. It's well produced, but I can't say I hear the same personality in it as I do in Duff, Aly & AJ, Hannah, or even Tisdale. And there seems to be an attempt to sell her in two directions at the same time - Blender used the word "sultry" to describe her, qualifying it moments after by explaining that she's 18. That fits into the Britney, Christina Disney paradigm - where that sexual discovery/playfulness is apart of the draw (like in Vanessa's "Come Back to Me"). The second is what HSM is, and what Vanessa's songs on HSM are - innocent, romantic, highschoolish. The double selling is odd - I feel really ambiguous about her, while Tisdale with weaker tracks I find interesting.

Anyway: Was this album in production during HSM? And is it a Disney album? Who is writing the songs? I'm curious if this is a product of her (her manager, whatever) impetus V. the Disney machine's. Obviously for each of these Disney stars there's a point where they have to distinguish themselves from Disney - but I hadn't heard anything about Hudgens before HSM, so this sudden departure from the script feels... well... scripted.

Can't say that I'm feeling anything sultry in Vanessa Hudgens. I'm coming to like "Come Back To Me" more; but her small voice is just kinda small (rather than expressively small à la Robyn or Hilary); there's a potential whine or wail that could take her in the direction of Angel Sabatar of the (definitely sultry) Cover Girls, once the whine/wail gets deeper and richer. That's probably too much to hope for. The album is likable second-rank r&b; on Disney-affiliated Hollywood Records. The songs I like are "Come Back To Me" (written and produced by Antonina Armato and Tim James, known in these parts as Aly & AJ's collaborators on "Chemicals React," "Shine," "Greatest Time Of Year," and "Not This Year," which is interesting because those are all arranged with power chords, not with "Come Back To Me"'s r&b beats; the pair also worked with Hoku back in 2000); "Let Go" and "Rather Be With You" (by Andrew Bojanic and Liz Hooper, a couple of protegés of the Matrix, transplanted Aussies, produce under the moniker Wizardz of Oz; also involved in Christian music); "Say OK" (by Anthor* Birgisson Savan Kotecha, who work for Maratone (Max Martin's production outfit)), "Let's Dance" (by Jonas Jeberg, Bridget Benenate, Matthew Gerard, with Gerrard on the dials; he's worked with Benenate a lot); and "Whatever Will Be" (by Carl Falk, Savan Kotecha, Jake Shultze). Leah Haywood and Dan James, who worked with Aly & A.J. on the great "Rush," have material here that's disappointing (Shelly Pelkin who cowrote Ashlee's great "Love Me For Me," had a hand in one of those)).

*Also seen him spelled "Arnthor."

I figure one of you pedos will get a hard-on over this.

Kidz Bop - "Chicken Noodle Soup"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bjr-bP-sSgs

(I jest. It's cute.)

Actually like the two Aliana Lohan tracks I've heard, "Lohan Christmas" and "Christmas Magic," though both sound Adult Contemporary as of 30 years ago rather than what's been marketed recently as teenpop, and Aliana's phrasing doesn't quite sound American, which is strange. I don't really have an opinion of her voice, beyond that.

I was using "sultry" only to show how she's being perceived - I agree with you that she doesn't come off as particularly sultry (assuming that the adjective can describe a way you use your voice -- considering I'm listening to Donna Summer right now: Love to Love You Baby is sultry). But I think she's trying to play in a certain way that has you describe it as "likable second-rank r&b" where I don't think you'd ever call Aly & AJ that (despite the similar producers). Or to put in better words, my sister loves Aly + AJ, but I don't think she'd get Hudgens. One of my old roommates, who loved r&b (second-rank or otherwise, he wasn't particular about the quality), would love Hudgens, but wouldn't get Aly + AJ.

Btw: When I make that distinction between Aly/AJ and Hudgens, I'm referring to album-Hudgens, not HSM-Hudgens (if that wasn't clear).

Also, Frank, rereading your initial post in this thread (looking for a possible comment on Hudgens) I noticed you said: "Teen newbie Taylor Swift is on the country stations with teen confessional sounds and concerns and may have the talent to match Aly & A.J. if not Ashlee (yet)."

What I heard from Swift makes this statement really confusing. Obviously you aren't comparing styles, or genres (or even a vocal comparison)... is it just the confessional style?

Tim, I haven't seen Camp.

FWIW I've listened to "Lohan Holiday" about ten or fifteen times today, just bought the album, too.

Now that you mention it, her voice strikes me as almost having some of Amy Diamond's phrasing/affectation, the obvious difference being that Ali's way way more subdued (but not bad). I just can't imagine what the general idea behind this production was, since it doesn't seem to be in conversation with any recent music, teenpop or otherwise (maybe background music in a Hallmark commercial, but I bet even Hallmark's moved on to indie rock by now). Do keyboards even have those synth presets anymore? Ditto the costumes in that video...were those all lying around in some wardrobe closet somewhere near the shoot, or did someone actually design them?

(It was "I Like Christmas" that got kicked, can't find the number one most hated of the year yet.)

Mordechai, check out "A Place in This World," which has an almost 100% teen confessional chorus. Pretty sure the chord progression is identical to "Behind These Hazel Eyes" (Frank first pointed this out).

It's got the same tension as an Aly and AJ track, too, plays around with resolving to major with the emphasis on the relative minor (vi-IV-I(/wind at back marker)-V). Difference being that Aly and AJ would never resolve to the major root in the verse (as Taylor does, and the mood lightens up), they'd go right back to the relative minor and keep the tension bubbling under the surface.

Thanks - I can completely hear the confessional thing in A Place In This World. I'm not sure I hear the same kind of thing in Aly + AJ, but I do hear it in Clarkson, or Ashlee. That said, the rest I've heard of the album seems to be a willful evocation of Tim McGraw (as the song overtly points out). Thing about Aly and AJ is I don't hear confessional in their music - I'm sure it could be pointed out, but that's not what I'm left with. I'm left with breathless articulation - not self-reflective.

xpost

Mordy - Taylor does softer rock than Ashlee or Aly & A.J. or Kelly, but some of her songs make her emotional growth and personal experiences the issue; e.g., "A Place In This World" starts off, "I don't know what I want, so don't ask me/'Cause I'm still trying to figure it out/Don't know what's down this road, I'm just walking/Trying to see through the rain coming down/Even though I'm not the only one/Who feels the way I do." And the chorus - its melody and harmony - runs very close to "Behind These Hazel Eyes." Her vocal twang and the banjo or mandolin running through the chorus of "Should've Said No" doesn't make it any less a wailing rockin' teen rager on the order of Ashlee's "I Am Me." And "Tim McGraw" has smart smart smart lyrics. Not that there's no precedence for this in country: Deana Carter is a singer-songwriter precursor. (Not an age thing; Deana was already in her 30s before she hit with "Strawberry Wine." "Tim McGraw" is a variation on the first-love reminiscence of "Strawberry Wine." Strange that young Taylor is doing a reminiscence song. Also strange that the lyrics may be better than those in any of the hundred other first-love reminiscence songs in country since "Strawberry Wine.") I'll see if I can hunt down some of my December posts on Taylor from the ad hoc rolling country-in-email-exile substitution for a thread.

(Deana didn't write "Strawberry Wine," but she wrote everything on 2005's Story Of My Life, which does a good job of melding country narrative songs and singer-songwriter personal songs. And "The Girl You Left Me For" has as many "yeah yeah yeahs" as Aly & A.J.'s "Rush.")

In last year's thread we had a discussion of how you don't actually have to confess anything to be "confessional." (This was in regard to Michelle Branch.) But I'd say Aly & A.J.'s "Not This Year" and "Sticks And Stones" qualify as A Girl's Personal Feelings. Though if Aly & A.J. were screaming their throats out those'd be punk. Sound has a lot to do with whether you're perceived as "confessional." We've been using "confessional" as a vague shorthand for a bunch of things. I'm not in particular trying to tie Taylor to the Michalka girls in any way that's deeper than they're being teens who are somewhat within musical range of each other and whose minds are at work.

Could somebody who likes the Ali Lohan record explain why then? I'll listen to it again when I get home to see if I missed anything, but on first listen I thought it was awful. Except for "Lohan Holiday", like I said.

'lohan holiday' is awful! so awful it's compelling admittedly but still.

the jojo album is VERY good, having listened to it all weekend...

So, can one of the Brits out there explain why Amy Winehouse (whose album comes out in the States in March) is something more than, like, the new Des'ree or Dionne Farris or something? I mean, I get it, I think: "Authentic soul" tedium for grownups with "good taste", and her single is about not being able to stop drinking or taking drugs, apparently, so that makes her Billie Holiday. And what makes her authentic is that her singing strains all the life out, so see, she's obviously on her last legs and therefore highly moving. Why should I care? I couldn't get through four songs on the CD yesterday.

"Lohan Holiday": alternate version. Makes me feel icky but I laughed at the ringtone.

And no wonder we don't talk about TRL more around here...NY Daily News: “The ratings are at an all-time low, around 300,000 viewers,” says the source. “The show is going to be canceled and rebranded.”

I'm sorry to hear that about TRL, Dave. Maybe it's just faint nostalgia, but I still harbor positive feelings towards it. When I was in high school (1996-2000) TRL was just absolutely massive and, yes, I would rush home after school so I'd be home in time to watch it. And I'd root for and vote for my favorite videos ("Pretty Fly for a White Guy"! "Dope Show"! "I Want It That Way"! Eminem! Boo Korn!). I watched it again a few months ago (obviously work makes it hard to tune in) and it was pretty lame though so I don't know if the show has actually declined or if it was just never that good to start with.

I like Amy Winehouse, she's funny. She's not asking for your pity, she's asking for a blimmin pint, right now mate and she'll probably give you a wink and a smile if you oblige or maybe even if you don't. She's always been rude and obnoxious and looked a bit like she might start a brawl at any moment but there're also some nice little confessional-without-being-pathetic moments in her music and I think it's genius. She's saying she doesn't want to go to rehab because she thinks it's a load of old bollocks, not 'ooh poor me I can't get off the booze.' Amy certainly wouldn't want your pity, although she does seem to be in something of a state, judging by the less reputable gossip rags, she's always immaculately turned out on stage, bar the fact she has a large tattoo of a woman with her breasts out on one of her arms.

I wrote something about her current album here, if you're a)interested or b)very bored.

...and then of course there's always this!

i'm really bored of the "amy winehouse is grown-up authentic fake soul for the 12-CD-a-year brigade" criticism, sorry chuck, it's just that there's so bloody much of it already over here. (i mean, in these circles alone: the mainstream press loves amy's music.) she mines the past but polishes it up at the same time; her voice is naturally quite bluesy or whatever (i don't think it's an affectation). these may help her appeal to the 12-cd brigade but she's much more interesting once you, y'know, listen to her songs and stuff, rather than just skim them.

"Authentic soul" tedium for grownups with "good taste"

yeah she's pitched as this to various quarters because that helps her shift units. doesn't mean that's what she is.

and her single is about not being able to stop drinking or taking drugs, apparently, so that makes her Billie Holiday

no one's claiming she's billie holiday, and the single isn't so much about how she can't stop drinking boo hoo, it's that she's not going to stop drinking fuck you. ie what hazel said. (a side point about the drinking: i think we're pretty much past the moral censure of famous women who get pissed, in the uk, apart from the more right-wing newspapers. when chaz church and girls aloud go on benders, it's reported luridly, but there's a sense of "good strong healthy specimens of british womanhood" about it all. with amy winehouse it is different because...well she's probably approaching lohan levels of self-abuse here. there's no "apparently" about any of it, girl does need help.)

And what makes her authentic is that her singing strains all the life out, so see, she's obviously on her last legs and therefore highly moving.

the singing in 'rehab' is jaunty and jolly and cocking a snook at everyone who thinks she should be on her last legs! at no point does winehouse even try to move us with tales of alcoholism - the booze is incidental to what she does try to move us with, the heartbreak and vague self-loathing. she succeeds because she's genuinely witty - not waving a big HELLO I'M COMEDY sign around a la lily allen or mike skinner, but smart and self-aware and self-deprecating and assured. listen to the way she sings the couplet "i don't ever want a drink again - ooh, i just need a friend", the wink-wink at the audience of the first line undercut so effectively by the pathos of the second. and 'you know i'm no good' - which is basically my favourite song right now if only because it's a spot-on depiction of a situation i was in a while back - is all about how harmed/harmful she is, but it's full of references to, like, chips and pitta and stuff.

Since Disney burns their chart results 1984-style every week...

Jan 15, 2007 - Top 30: Usual suspects, plus new Ashley Tisdale at 30 with "Be Good to Me," "Kashmir"-pop. Corbin "Sacre" Bleu at #1 for the second or third consecutive week. Only major airplay discrepancy are two Keke Palmer tracks and Slumber Party girls climber "Countdown." Mailbag: Prude-rap wannabe and former incubatee Lil' Josh KICKED at 53%. Incubator: LAX (as in "Strap on your seatbelts and hang on, because LAX is cleared for take off."), very Cheetah Girls. (Last week was milk carton cover girl Britney Christian, does-a-body-good campaign crossover rock + power ballad "Make It Go Away" which might be about milk's power to combat calcium deficiency.)

was their talk about the jojo album anywhere? it was out last year in the states. bar a couple of gloopy ballads near the end, i think it's terrific. she's surprisingly convincing as an r&b vamp - whether beyoncé-vixenish or cassie-vulnerable - and her earnest moments all have these massive, heartfelt choruses to them. and the diane warren state-of-the-nation ballad closer is ludicrous.

I guess my problem with Winehouse is that, no matter how "funny" Brits seem to think she is (which I get the idea from the posts above has as much or not more to do with her public image as her music -- though Lex and Hazel do note the latter, admittedly), her singing sounds completely humorless to me. Which is to say Hazel's Lauryn Hill imitations absolutely ring true to me: The NPR tedium is right there in her sound. But who knows, maybe I'll change my mind as the year goes on. More likely, there's a language gap. I'm guessing that Americans won't pick up on the humor of it, even it's there; they'll pick up on the impeccable taste of it instead. (As for others making the same criticism as I have, that's news to me; I've barely read a word about the woman, here or elsewhere. So actually it's encouraging to hear I'm far from alone in my opinion.)

did you like lauryn, chuck? it's maybe a good comparison in that you can hear all these signifiers of tastefulness, the ways in which both would appeal to a white middle-class radio 2 audience (i don't know what npr is - i'm guessing our radio 2 is the equivalent). (amy's a lot less ambitious than lauryn though.)

but unlike others of that ilk, joss stone et al, both lauryn and amy i think are much better than that. (not that i think there's anything wrong with coffee-table diluted soul: i love me some sade.)

americans might not pick up on amy's dry humour but they'll probably pick up on the "boozy british chick" thing, which is if not humour than certainly black comedy.

(for the record i love lauryn.)

(for the record, i don't.)

in 1998 i didn't have much money (15 yrs old) and didn't get free stuffz so the albums i did buy i kind of listened to on repeat for about two years; i basically know the miseducation of lauryn hill off by heart

Brie Larson's New Year's Resolutions:

1. eat more magenta colored foods
2. do a better job of protecting the rain forest.
3. finish composing my opus.
4. try to watch ALL the star wars movies in one day.
5. kick it old school by learning the running man
6. end my relationship with flava flav.
7. remember that my dog has feelings too.
8. respond to my hate mail more promptly.
9. create a DVD series that involves tai chi, chai tea, and tie-dye.
10. FINISH MY DAMN RECORD.

Open call for submissions for the March issue of Bunnies and Traps. Direct all mail to submissions at bunniesandtraps dot com. Just sayin'.

Hilary Duff news, album is due in April, all songs co-written with Kara DioGuardi and dancey as previously reported. There's a tie-in single for her new fragrance called "With Love" (both are called that).

Well, "With Love" sounds great, as expected. This album has potential to be the next Come and Get It, though it's obviously extremely premature to expect it to be that good.

And according to tommy2.net, the new Aly & AJ album has been pushed back to June (originally to be released in April). I'm still crossing my fingers for this one, but I clearly expect it to be great.

I'm in a historical teen pop mood today.

When I was in like 9th grade-ish, the two songs that were absolutely massive in my school, apart from the obv. Savage Garden, Spice Girls, etc. were "Barbie Girl" (by Aqua) and "Tubthumping" (by Chumbawamba). In the bus on the way to school, my friends and I would memorize the words to "Tubthumping" and sing it on the way there. I'm sure the driver was thrilled. Both still sound great to me today. Never heard another Chumbawamba song, though I'm kinda curious if they are any good. Aqua, I know, released a great followup single called "Lollipop (Candyman)", which I've seen Frank talk up and which my friends and I also loved. Anybody heard any other Chumbawama or Aqua know if they are any good?

Admittedly, I dunno if this is teenpop, but Frank on one of the Pazz & Jop Poptimist polls posted a link to Jimmy Ray's "Are You Jimmy Ray?", which I literally cannot stop listening to. Just wanted to post it here in case any of you missed it there and don't know it. The song almost defies description, but is great.

Chumbawamba wasn't really teenpop -- Tubthumping was really an aberration. The next album was called ReadyMades (a reference to the art movement) and its best song was a single about the drowned Russian sailors. It was called Joseph's Ladder. I really liked it.

It's too bad if TRL goes down, since it was one of the few teen power bases to challenge Disney and to at keep teenpop somewhat older. Don't know who else would be likely to play a new Ashlee or Hilary. My guess is that with downloading and all, kids just don't think a countdown show is essential. (But didn't MTV once in its past abandon its countdown show - known as Dial MTV - and then later brought countdowns back, hence TRL.)

Xhuxk, you have to understand that the British charts now are terrible, so Amy comes on like a fresh breath of deliberately stale air. So far I find her singing way too mannered - and not mannered as "classy," but mannered as in she's trying to slur like Dorothy Parker. (Which may be exactly how she talks, but it still comes across as mannered.) But her Sade groove is, at least, a groove, in contrast with so many clompy British rock bands keeping it real by keeping it clompy. (Maybe one reason the Arctic Monkeys did so well is that they came on as good ole clompin' blokes but actually propelled the rhythm.)

Lex, there was some JoJo talk on last year's thread, if you want to do a search. (I liked, Jeff didn't.) This doesn't mean we can't talk more about her this year.

The odd thing about "Are You Jimmy Ray?" is that it didn't particularly resemble any current genre of the time: wasn't techno or house, wasn't dancepop, wasn't hip-hop (though it kinda had talking), wasn't metal or grunge or rock, wasn't even '50s throwback, despite his hair. I suppose you could call it a quasi-rap to a Tommy Roe rhythm. I don't know. How would you guys categorize it?

Greg: The first Aqua album (Aquarium) is uneven but still great, second one (Aquarius) mediocre (was going less for Europop and more for Britney pop, which would have been OK but the songs just weren't there). Another great track on the first album is "Roses Are Red." You should also check out the first Toy-Box album, Fantastic, which is very much like Aqua; not as good, but enjoyable nonetheless.

"...mannered as in she's trying to slur like Dorothy Parker."

You say this as though it were a bad thing! This line alone sold me the album. I'm grabbing a copy to listen to the first chance I get. Frank, I'm actually curious where you've heard Parker read -- I found a bunch of mp3s of her, but I'm always in the hunt for more. I love her voice. It sounds drenched in scotch and Lucky Strikes.

i've never heard dorothy parker's voice! i want to!

'Tubthumping' is about Old Labour's demise in the face of Nu Labour. True Story.

I liked the first Aqua album a lot- my little brother had a copy on tape and it used to get quite a lot of play in my mum's car on the way to/from school. There's a great song on there about a sort of fairytale princess who's generally making a mess of things.

I'm going to look up Toy Box now.

My hangover made me deeply confused as to what was going on with that Hilary Duff advert. Doesn't quite sound like there's a 'Come And Get It' in the air, to me but it does all sound rather promising, certainly.

By the way, the top two new entries onto the Billboard's Hot 100 this week are Jordan Pruitt's "Jump To The Rhythm" (at #69) and Ashley Tisdale's "He Said, She Said" (at #77). So which are they pushing as Ashley's single, this one or "Be Good To Me"?

My memory of 'Are You Jimmy Ray' was that it came out of nowhere, seemed to be total genius, and sounded like nothing else around at the time. Still not sure I could categorize it! I guess comparing the charts then (1997/1998) and now, it feels like there were some top pop hitmakers making money out of pop, and willing to try anything which seemed it had legs. Where as now, no-one's making enough money to take a chance. I didn't realise this was a Simon Fuller production until I googled it looking for the date, but that totally makes sense, as I guess the nearest thing I can think of to compare it to are some of the 1 hit wonders that Stock Aitken and Waterman put out (The Reynolds Girls etc.) when they were running things in the UK charts.

Chumbawumba were horrible greasy agit-punks, e.g. they did an album called 'Pictures of Starving Children Sell Records', who occasionally did some rather sweet pop things -- I'm still fond of a song called 'Someone's Always Telling You How to Behave' which sounds a bit like Dubstar, or a more electronic Frazier Chorus.