Sea Devils And Die: GeroniMoffat's Doctor Who In The 2010s

You don't really care about things like that though, do you?

still loling at "kissogram". family friendly!

Bingo also:
Nobody dies

The (hospital) Doctor dies - offscreen tho. At least I assume she died. Maybe she was just wounded.

I loved this. I've missed a lot of episodes due to issues with Piper and then Tennant but thought these two were great - once I got used to the Dr. being about 16.

the old woman who says 'I've seen you somewhere before...' isn't a mystery, surely - the old woman thinks she's seen the doctor before because she's known Amy through her entire phase of raggedy doctor picture-drawing/doll-making/story-telling?

I initially assumed that she was part of Wilfred's Doctor-Seeking Geezer Expeditionary Brigade.

oh huh btw someone mentioned this elsewhere i think but how on earth can she work as a kissogram when she
1. lives in a village where everyone knows her and...

does she take the bus?

presumably she can walk.

what, she doesn't kiss where she eats, that's okay

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8607925.stm

Instant response would normally be a big groan, but Charles Cecil could make these great actually.

yeh cautiously optimistic. free too!

http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/45516174.html#cutid1

http://i44.tinypic.com/nl5vub.jpg

Liked this quite a lot. As we've seen from Moffatt's other Who work, it re-uses a lot of his own ideas (the opening bit with the young Amy praying is much closer to the original Sally Sparrow story that he rewrote as part of Blink, for example) and seems to want to be closer to Coupling at times, but not really to any penalty. Colour me optimistic for the rest of the series, Gatiss' dalek story in particular.

Hated the music though, and the new title sequence.

I do have to comment on something Matt said upthread on Hartnell, but I have to nip out just now so it will come later (possibly after episode 2).

I thought the second one was terrific. Although I got a bit lost with some of the timey-wimey stuff - were the Queen's last 10 years in some sort of loop? And I don't get when Amy was meant to have recorded that message for the Doctor.

One thing that's already sticking out about this series is the use of children and riffs on children's stories. With the exception of School Reunion and a couple of the Moffatt stories, the Rusty era didn't really use kids at all, it felt very young-teen oriented. The first couple of episodes seem to have a much more fantastical feel to them - I'm thinking CS Lewis/Phillip Pullman style 'children disappear and magical things happen to them'.

Also Amy's character is classic childhood wish fulfillment. The idea of being swept away by an imaginary/secret friend and having loads of adventures over the course of one night is classic children's fiction, very Snowman/BFG. Especially as Amy spent the whole episode in a nightgown. If it carries on in this vein it might turn out to be a stroke of genius on Moffatt's part.

Matt Smith's bumbling professor Doctor is really taking off, he's distancing himself from Tennant already. I liked the bit when he flipped at Amy as well, a bit of an Ecclestone throwback there. Next episode looks like it might even do something interesting with the Daleks as well.

think Cockney Queen who goes "undercover" with a porcelain mask is probably the daftest thing Moff has come up with so far...

I liked Cockney Queen, although I thought they laid the Last of the Timelords stuff on a bit thick right at the end.

(I was challoping a bit with the Hartnell stuff Aldo, just getting tired of the constant "ah it were better when I were a lad" stuff on these threads).

were the Queen's last 10 years in some sort of loop?

yeah every ten years she has to choose whether to abdicate or forget. it makes sense for the plebs to remember they vote every five years, but she must have to forget she even had the choice.

agree with you about the children's story stuff, seems to be generally true about moffat that he's better when writing for a young audience. press gang>>>>>>>coupling and whatever the fuck else he's done.

Again, totally great I thought. No problem at all with the porcelain mask - goes back to that old literary/historical thing of the monarch wanting to see how his/her subjects really live. Love the way he ties up Ballardian urban images with fairy stories - completely agree with what Matt DC said about aiming for the younger audience with the fantastical (reminds me of that Robert Conquest poem defending science fiction Far Out - about seeing the galaxies in the button eyes of your rag doll).

Also so much happens which isn't simply running about. Love it.

The "forget" and "protest" buttons were brilliant.

I'm no Star Wars geek but there were a couple of things that seemed like little homages - interstellar royalty saying "Save us Doctor - you're our only hope" for instance. And of course suddenly realizing that there's a reason the cave you're in is so damp...

I feel like this Doctor is a bit of a softie so far. That hug! I imagine Tennant, and especially Eccles, kind of flinching if Amy had gone in like that. I like Smith, he has a kind of floppy scarecrow thing going on which is pretty great. Something Tennant had down cold was this kind of appreciation-for-humans-yet-at-a-remove look - a real warm kind of sympathy his eyes were capable of which still managed to convey that he would never belong to Earth, really. Maybe I'm projecting. But being so young is a special challenge for Smith I think. The Doctor is what, hundreds of years old?

And I don't get when Amy was meant to have recorded that message for the Doctor.

No, me neither (and was it even good advice? She didn't get him off the ship in the end, and it all turned out ok). I liked that this was such a sci-fi story, I just wish it had come later in the series. It would've been nice to see a bit more interaction between the new doc and amy, but this one was so plot heavy (maybe overly so, some bits felt pretty rushed) that there wasn't much time for that kind of character-based stuff.

Also why are they dumping the naughty kids in the monster pit to be eaten, if they already know it refuses to eat them? In fact why is it eating anyone, if it's basically there to help them all?

Cause it needs food?

They're not dumping the kids down there to be eaten, they're dumping them down there to weed out troublemakers and serve as a warning to others. I don't know exactly what happens to the kids, they seemed sort of zombified..

I figured she recorded it during the 20 minutes she ended up forgetting. By hitting the big "Record" button. No it wasn't good advice, but hey. What she'd seen on the tape scared her, she was convinced there was nothing positive they could do, but she also knew the Doctor would try to save the day, so she recorded a message to her future self to get him out of there before he messed up the nice little authoritarian regime the UK had going.

I guess some might say it's too obvious but I liked the metaphor of the star whale - the people who keep the engine of your country going could probably do a better job if you stopped exploiting them. But we'd rather forget.

Cause it needs food?

Ok, this isn't really solved by the Doctor's intervention then. But yeah, you're probably right about the rest of it. :)

Murray Gold needs to be horsewhipped.

Otherwise, I liked this episode.

Loved it. That Doctor/Amy hug at the end was a wonderful moment...the joy of the Doctor realizing that he's understood, possibly not alone...and after all of those years obsessing and imagining him, the joy of Amy being able show him how much she really knows...felt very genuine.

The story got a little elaborate in places, but overall a really vivid and engaging episode. Though Mr Veg and I lol'd at the last shot of Spaceship UK with the whale underneath..."You know if the Tardis had come in at a lower angle to start with they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble.."

Excited for ole Winny's Ironsides Daleks.

Wonder if the daleks will shoot any miners

Agree that this episode had a tone and payoff more suited to a later point in the season, because it felt oddly disengaged for me (could be my indigestion though) and the stakes seemed remote too.

^^ this for me too, when the doctor got mad it felt more mood-swingy than righteous fury. i could see how technically the plot called for fury, but i was like "oh w/e you're not going to really condemn Amy as being the worst person ever in episode 2."

but actually wasn't The Fires of Pompeii the second ep last season? there was a similar "doctor has to make a terrible choice, companion disagrees" situation and i thought it carried sufficient resonance at the time.

The bare bones of the plot were ok but I'm not really down with the style of 1940s retro-futuristic authoritarian broken britain in space, which I feel like has been done time and time again - e.g. Gridlock, which ok was NY not UK but still had the same air of ramshackle technology, everyone in power behaving like assholes. The Smilers, for example, were just a gimmick, "ooh let's have a scary face in there", there's no logic behind having everyone watched over by dummies in boxes.

Though Mr Veg and I lol'd at the last shot of Spaceship UK with the whale underneath...

I think I saw the crack along the side of the ship's saddle, or shell, or whatever it is, in this shot.

Xpost - yep, know what you mean about the Smilers - they had no structural point - but they were v sinister.

This felt like an old Peter Davison/Sylvester McCoy four-parter squashed into 40 mins tbh, but I don't really mind the overabundance of ideas. Can make some bits rather sketchy.

I didn't think the reveal and exposition bit really held together particularly well but maybe I need to watch it again. Moffatt has quite got the hang of pacing an episode at this point which is strange given he was pretty much the king of it during the Rusty era.

Umm, that was OK but not hugely better than that. As much like a 200AD story as Gridlock, but with the added spice of ripping off Pat Mills' 'Song of the Space Whale' (an unfinished 5th Doctor story, replaced with Mawdryn Undead) and was consistent with the Nerva Beacon trilogy. This series feels very much like the 5th Doctor in tone, which probably isn't a surprise given Moffatt's leanings that way. Still very hopeful, particularly for next week.

Matt, I can see why you'd want to challenge that, and I can see your point to a larger degree. There is barely a six-parter (or longer), for example, that isn't at least one episode too long - The War Games has one episode that achieves absolutely nothing, and ends with Jamie being captured just like the previous one did - and there are even plenty of four-parters that could do with judicious editing. And, of course, no Doctor is above criticism - I myself can't stand the McCoy era (Sylv's characterisation is perhaps the only thing that redeems any of it, although Remembrance is at least watchable in places) and don't really like the majority of Davison, while having rediscovered Colin Baker as only failing due to poor scripts - but picking on Hartnell dialogue stumbles when it was mainly deliberate acting (William Russell has confirmed this, and was used at least in part to cut down the amount of reshooting required as Hartnell's arteriosclerosis did affect his memory to a degree) is one of the tropes that always gets trotted out criticising the b&w era.

Anyway, I'm just starting maybe the worst Who box set yet released (The Time Monster, Underworld and Horns of Nimon, none of which are any good at all) so I may not return in any fit condition.

I think I saw the crack along the side of the ship's saddle, or shell, or whatever it is, in this shot.

yep. looks like people were right about the crack in the universe being a long running thing.

"You know if the Tardis had come in at a lower angle to start with they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble.."

a bit like if only the TARDIS had landed in front of the Madame Pompadour painting perhaps

Are the cracks connected with Amy is the question. Crack at her house, crack on the monitor when she enters the Tardis, crack at the end of this episode (i.e. after she's been there).

Didn't like ep2 as much as ep1 but am really impressed with Matt Smith. Too many loose ends (ha! - as if it that was a new development) and I didn't think the Smilers were sinister enough, they needed some weaponry.

First ten minutes would have had me totally spooked as a kid (8-year-old me found pierrot masks and the testcard - see screen in lift - horribly creepy, had recurring nightmares abt out-of-control lifts), so A+ for that

after that, some aspects of plot not really hanging together, but enough flashes of aceness that it didn't wind me up like an RTD cobbled-together plot

loved the Dalek WWII propaganda poster in the preview, if the Beeb (Terry Nation?) have their act together I suspect there is significant geek $$$ to be made in selling prints

feels a bit too soon for Daleks but i do quite like it when you get the next episode set up at the end of the current one

I don't like it when they basically show you all but the last ten minutes of the next episode in the trailer though. Turning off b4 that shit next time.

It is totally glib to say this (& dismissive cliché during the RTD era), but these first shows do feel like childrens TV, in the best possible way. "Giant Space Whale" and "Humungous Eyeball Ship" are as kid-imaginative as it comes, and the glut of ideas is part of a new style, i think, that i am like. it extends the universe outside of the teleology of the plot & individual episode, in sort of a novel way.

admittedly, there were some scattershot ends.

Dear God, the Time Monster is awful. The only saving graces are Ingrid Pitt and the Atlantean servant in ep 5 that looks like Darlene out of Roseanne (only he's a bloke).

Underworld isn't nearly as bad as I remember it being though. I'm almost enjoying it.

Only just had the chance to catch up with the first two eps, pretty fantastic all round. All the gloss and pace of the RTD era, but far less glib and lazy. I think I may prefer Smith to Tennant already - over-confident funny looking nerd is so much more fun than over-confident handsome capable dude.

This felt like an old Peter Davison/Sylvester McCoy four-parter squashed into 40 mins tbh, but I don't really mind the overabundance of ideas.

Yeah, there were easily enough ideas for a two-parter here. But bring it on, I say. Excited for the future of the show.

loved the Dalek WWII propaganda poster in the preview, if the Beeb (Terry Nation?) have their act together I suspect there is significant geek $$$ to be made in selling prints

As soon as I saw it I wanted one, so I think you're right.

I saw the last one, with the space whale, I thought it was pretty decent overall, although I wish they'd SLOW DOWN a bit, and I found the ending a bit abrupt & borderline nonsensical. I saw the trailer for the next ep & was like oh shit, not the daleks again, give it a rest at first, but I have to admit, the khaki ww2 daleks were funny & a cute conceit so I'm looking forward to it.

Really enjoyed the episodes, although in retrospect there were a lot of things that seemed "outside" the plot, but nevertheless it was very good. Matt Smith has officially won me over, he was much less Tennant-y in this ep versus the previous one, and he deadpanned a few lines while in the mouth that gave me genuine lols.

I wish they'd SLOW DOWN a bit

There were a few lines early on when things were being rapidly explained that I literally didn't understand even after rewinding a few times. This also happened with Tennant episodes but usually only when he was launching into one of his purposefully nonsensical tech explanations.

I may prefer Smith to Tennant already - over-confident funny looking nerd is so much more fun than over-confident handsome capable dude.

That's a good point.

Yeah, not bad. The episode's shortcomings are saved by the two leads, who I find really watchable, likeable, whatever.
The Smilers, like the scarecrows in the Family of Blood episode, didn't make much logical sense, but were a neat idea as something creepy to stick in the minds of children watching. They would've been creepier though, if they just had a manic grin as one fixed expression. A frown, even the demonic grimace, aren't as unsettling as a dead-eyed, malevolent smile on those kind of things.

while having rediscovered Colin Baker as only failing due to poor scripts

And with being a really really horrible actor?

I still got a few manic Tennanty vibes off Smith, but I'll agree that he had moments of quiet deadpan that would work as his Doctor Thing.

Properly freaked out when that one hoodie human's head turned around to reveal a Smiler.

Also complaining about the music is for losers. I'm a winner.

Just seen it, fucking excellent, fuiud

And with being a really really horrible actor?

I can see what you mean, but I don't agree with you at all. The utterly dislikeable Doctor has been done to a much lesser degree before and since (Hartnell, Ecclescake and Tennant in the Christmas Invasion) so IMHO the fact he does it overplayed in neither here nor there. The remainder is sub-Tom, sure, but has the same contemptuous tone , with maybe the boorishness and superiority of Hartnell. I can live with that.

Mel is still kind of shit, though.

Anyone else get a slight Buckaroo Banzai feel from Smith's outfit?

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/b/bukbanzi.jpg

Really enjoyed this, and yeah, the kid-oriented-but-with-stuff-for-adults things really works for me. (As for Colin Baker, at the time I assumed his being unlikable was a symptom of his regeneration going wrong and his personality never settling down, but rewatching them more recently this idea wasn't as strongly run with as I remember, so Maybe not).

What with the Magpie Electricals thing, Moffat's hardly pretending the RTDavies years never happened. He's just quietly outwriting all of Davies work.

yeah i wondered about the Magpie thing having not realised that the Doctor's new monitor as first seen in The Eleventh Hour also had a Magpie Electricals logo on it. Would expect to see one in the next ep too now esp. with it being by the Idiot Lantern writer and set in a nearby time.

aldo you will fucking love it BUT we keenly await another timeline update from you! :D

― one of the jones boys (sic), Monday, 5 April 2010 22:54 (1 week ago)

hmmmmmmmm