2008 Primaries Thread

see what i did there?

I guess Gloria Steinem's been waiting for Hillary to fall behind in the polls, so she could write an op-ed like this:

Women Are Never Front-Runners

Gender is probably the most restricting force in American life, whether the question is who must be in the kitchen or who could be in the White House. This country is way down the list of countries electing women and, according to one study, it polarizes gender roles more than the average democracy.

That’s why the Iowa primary was following our historical pattern of making change. Black men were given the vote a half-century before women of any race were allowed to mark a ballot, and generally have ascended to positions of power, from the military to the boardroom, before any women (with the possible exception of obedient family members in the latter).

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/7317/thumbs/r-HILLARYPRIMARIES-huge.jpg

Black men were given the vote a half-century before women of any race were allowed to mark a ballot

who the fuck is she kidding

I always feel weird reading complaints about black men gaining social status before women. It seems to tread reeeeeeally close to crypto-racism.

Black suffrage - 1870
Women's suffrage - 1920

Care to dispute this timeline?

um, jim crow?

yeah all that 'civil rights' stuff, what were they on about

While what Glo-ri-ah says on enfranchisement is LITERALLY true, it's yet another instance of liberal my-suffering-is-bigger-than-yrs crapola.

Morbs otm

(!)

everyone thought that the women's vote would END ALL WAR and we can see how that idea played out

zzzzzzz

is she gunning to be HRC's Secretary of Defense?

I say she's gunning for "galpal"

I’m supporting Senator Clinton because ... she also has an unprecedented eight years of on-the-job training in the White House

oh plz, so very lame

Steinem in a-lady-should-be-well-married Jane Austen move!

speaking of sexism and hillary

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/7224/thumbs/s-IRON-large.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjS8_WWhjao

haha

Irrelevant, but it should be posted:

http://memosphere.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/fancyfred.jpg

http://i7.tinypic.com/6l9lxde.jpg

From an online biography of Frederick Douglass:

Black voters came out strongly for the Republicans in the 1868 elections, helping Grant win the presidency. With Grant in office, the Fifteenth Amendment passed through Congress and was submitted to the states for ratification. This amendment guaranteed all citizens the right to vote, regardless of their race. Douglass's push for state approval of the amendment caused a breach between him and the woman suffragists, who were upset that the measure did not include voting rights for woman. Old friends such as Susan B. Anthony and Elizabeth Cady Stanton accused Douglass of abandoning the cause of women's rights. At the annual meeting of the Equal Rights Association in May 1869, Douglass tried to persuade the woman suffragists that voting rights for blacks must be won immediately, while women could afford to wait. "When women because they are women are dragged from their homes and hung upon lampposts, .....then they will have the urgency to obtain the ballot," said Douglass. One of the women in the crowd cried out, "Is that not also true about black women?" "Yes, yes," Douglass replied, "but not because she is a woman but because she is black." The women in the audience were not convinced by Douglass's argument, and some of them even spoke out against black suffrage. Douglass's relationship with the woman suffragists eventually healed, but women would not receive the right to vote until 1920.

Woodrow Wilson: "Why would women want the vote? Aren't they supposed to be smarter than us?

Epic Turnout would be a nice drag name

Care to dispute this timeline?

Well, of course not. I am a feminist, I just think the whole "see? even BLACK PEOPLE have more rights than women now!!!" routine is a bit weird. And it's usually brought up (as it was in this case) when comparing the two is really unnecessary.

nate since you seem to be a robot, yes, i know black men voted during reconstruction.

i'm pretty sure both you and gloria steinem know about poll taxes, literacy tests, the grandfather clause, that kind of thing.

linking any of this up to obama beating clinton twice is just noxious

I'm not denying Jim Crow, or the fact that black men in many states still faced big obstacles to voting after they had been granted suffrage by Constitutional amendment - though I also couldn't deny that having a right to vote albeit with obstacles in certain regions is still probably better than not having the right at all.

gosh I wonder why Steinem doesn't mention that there's been 35 women in the senate, and only 5 african americans.

Gloria gets it right. Normal, decent people are loath to acknowledge it, but they are crypto-sexists through and through. Once they get a chance to put a dagger in any aspiring woman’s back, they gleely take it. Now, I’m not one to condemn them for that (turf wars are part of human nature), but for any clear-eyed person not to see this obvious matter of fact is truly astonishing.

or 243 congresswomen vs 121 african american representatives (how she would parse black women in congress I have no idea)

Jeb Hillary is not every woman

anyway there was already some discussion of fave women in public office above (hillary is not at top of list)

as with Obama's race, there's no doubt that Clinton's gender is a contributing factor to her perception and strategy on the campiagn trail, but treating tracking polls like a referendum on the state of U.S. prejudices is just retarded.

jeb that is most rong thing i've read today

and i've read that 'sexy indie sirens' thread too.

did some western states like wyoming have woman's suffrage 40 or 50 years before th 19th amendment?

(didn't)

i'm w/o my fact checker AND typist today

Yes, I think that's right - although I think the purpose in the earliest states to grant women suffrage was to get enough population to achieve statehood.

At the same time, how long was it that black men had the right to vote, but were counted as 3/5 of a person?

(I can't figure out if Steinem's argument is deliberately disingenuous or just blatantly stupid)

the headline sez it all

did some western states like wyoming have woman's suffrage 40 or 50 years before th 19th amendment?

Hmm, yes, it appears they did. Interesting.

xpost

By the end of the nineteenth century, Idaho, Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming had enfranchised women after an extreme amount of effort by the suffrage associations at the state level.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_suffrage

jeb are you seriously stating that people are choosing not to vote for HRC because they are secretly indulging in some submerged woman hatin'? what the fuck. that's not an "obvious matter of fact" so much as just... asinine.

why has everything i've read about either race or gender in this race seemed out and out creepy, at best? "omg the one guy is BLACK and the woman is a WOMAN holy shit there's something going on here has anyone noticed this??"

i'm about to discount everyone who's ever mentioned either at this point

but cynthia mckinney is black and a woman so she wins i guess

Interesting fundraising news on the Obama front... a funraising event was planned two weeks ago. This was the email sent out:

Dear Friends,

At this very time last year, I was asking many of you to participate in Senator Obama's first Presidential fundraiser here in New York. I want to ask for your help again, to Welcome Back Barack! Senator Obama will come straight from New Hampshire on Wednesday, January 9th to spend an evening with New York supporters at the Grand Hyatt. Last night, Iowans proved that America is ready for Change We Can Believe In. Be a part of the Obama movement so we can continue to spread the message, build the campaign, and fend off Republican attacks in the very near future. If you join the Sponsor reception, I will gladly introduce you to the next President of the United States, Senator Barack Obama, there will be a photo line there as well. Details can be found below and please click the link to contribute. See you on Wednesday!

https://donate.barackobama.com/page/contribute/nyhyatt?custom1=Arthur%20...

$500: General Reception
$1000: Question and Answer Reception
$2300: Photo and Chat Reception

All the very best,

Arthur

This was followed up by the following email today, indicating an surplus of big-money donors:

http://www.observer.com/files/imagecache/article/files/OBAMAEMAIL.JPG

can we discuss how graceless Bill Clinton looks when facing impending doom?

those wwe pictures, otm, i keep expecting hhh to bust from behind the curtains in that video

basically bill clinton u mad

what's going on with mccain?

oh um cnn.com confused me plz ignore

wow yea what was up with that bill video? he sounds horrible, and not very coherent.