Marina & The Diamonds!

I think I know the bit you mean... it's where she goes all Sparks for a moment, yes?

Sorry, don't really know them.

for shame!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na8oDCKp6AU

Definite resemblances. I have had my own peculiar, unsystematic exposure to music so there are these gaps. I remember someone who used to post on this board being completely flabbergasted that I had never heard the band Love given the other things I was familiar with.

hey, didn't we all? I'm a relatively recent convert to sparks myself. no slight intended.

Considering they have been around since the 70s and have recently put out a track like that, they are probably worth checking out.

In a way I'm okay with the fact that a lot of the ILM singles jukebox crew don't like this album. Why shouldn't I like something that people who like tons of stuff I don't like don't like?

How the hell does "Girls" sound that much like a German cabaret song, incidentally? Some critic or other said something about that (maybe it was in that Petridis review).

Some of these lyrics are way more interesting than I could make out just from listening, "Obsessions" in particular.

In a way I'm okay with the fact that a lot of the ILM singles jukebox crew don't like this album. Why shouldn't I like something that people who like tons of stuff I don't like don't like?

well, quite. I'm okay with it too, mostly because I had no idea there was such a thing. are you on it?

No, despite all the time I spend here I am not interested in trying to be a critic or reviewer or whatever. Some of the reviewers might not be ILMers:

http://www.thesinglesjukebox.com/

Did I say I like the way the lyrics sometimes sound like they want to collapse into nonsense syllables (like when she sings "I was just a kid that you could not forgive because it's harder").

In a way I'm okay with the fact that a lot of the ILM singles jukebox crew don't like this album. Why shouldn't I like something that people who like tons of stuff I don't like don't like?

I mean, but a lot of us like her perfectly fine...both Mowgli's Road and Hollywood were just shy of 6s on the aggregate score, which while not universal acclaim is pretty much par for the course for most singles - it's just that those who dislike her do so strongly and loudly, whereas there hasn't been a lot of trumpeted LOVE.

And part of that is probably because we didn't review 'Robot' and 'Obsessions' and 'Hollywood' are going to be grating to a certain kind of listener for specific reasons - Obsessions does the drama school voice ALL OVER THE PLACE and Hollywood is probably the most cringeworthy lyrical moment on the album. You know? Like...general consensus seems to be "she's alright, but gets in her own way a lot" and while I really dig the album, I think it's a fair evaluation of her as an artist at the moment.

And also, it's not like there's any MEASURE of consensus anywhere over at Jukebox except when it comes to Taylor Swift, DJ Quik & Kurupt and the Yeah Yeah Yeahs.

True, but I didn't quite say that everyone on Singles Jukebox had agreed she was awful. I admit it's misleading to talk about the Singles Jukebox Crew as if it speaks with one voice (when it clearly does not at all).

I just find she's one of those artists whose flaws and strengths are difficult to even tease apart. I happen to like her a lot.

I finally got my cd copy in the mail yesterday, but I haven't played it yet. I think I od'ed on the album when it leaked (and the songs in demo form for the last two years). I'm going to have to put her aside for a short while and come back with fresh ears. I still love her, and I want to keep doing so.

When she talks about being visually oriented, I think it's quite apparent in her lyrics, in a good way.

a young, arguably naive but self-reflective artist engaged in a continual process of redesigning herself as something bolder and brighter

Just an aside: listening to this album is making me think I have reached some sort of milestone in aging (depressing phrase on the surface) where I appreciate the strength that youth can bring to music, without resenting that youthfulness.

"Running with my roots pulled up" is a pretty good image, and somehow conjures up more of that folkloric atmosphere that runs through the album. (Not musically folkloric, but folk tale folkloric. Fairy tales, folk tales, children's stories, etc. I think maybe that's a reflection of her intensely visual imagination.)

Her most Fiona moment: starts at 1:42 on "Numb." (Note: I'm not that familiar at all with Fiona Apple, but this really jumps out for some reason.)

m the g, what does "PWL vibe" mean (in reference to "Oh No!"), because that's one of the album tracks that's starting to stand out for me. I like the constantly churning changes in the vocals, the effects. Listening to it just now I was thinking I'd almost like to see her go even further in varying vocal effects and studio effects.

PWL = Pete Waterman Limited/Stock, Aitken and Waterman. hugely successful and much reviled 80s pop factory responsible for the likes of kylie minogue, big fun, sonja, rick astley, mel & kim, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhYFuLtVJU8

oh no! has a similar cheap and sonically enthusiastic vibe, even if the lyrics are much more negative.

The more I listen to the second half of the album, the more I wonder just how intense a personal back story there is to all of this gloom.

The songs toward the end (but also some of the themes appearing in earlier tracks) seem more like what you would write after an established career, reflecting back on the uglier aspects of what brought you to that accomplishment. It's like there is already this whole imagined career arc right on her debut. (Maybe this is all more common than I would think since I spend so little of my time paying attention to English language pop singers in any detail.)

Of course the first song sets that whole dynamic up, since she starts off talking about the record deal itself.

I know someone already made a point of how that runs through the whole album. It just hadn't hit me before listening to the album a bunch of times (and I never downloaded it before getting the CD, although I did stream the whole thing a few times I guess).

You did, m:

it's a theme which recurs throughout the album – the way in which her overwhelming need to be successful has marred her personal life – but there's something hyper-meta about the first line on the first track on your debut album being about getting the deal that made the album possible. it has a hollowing effect, makes it seem as if this was created in a vacuum.

I think this is what I was just trying to get at. I like that "hyper-meta" and the sense of vacuum. Yeah, it's like the anticipated fame, the success, the disillusionment are all springing out fully formed. I read somewhere or other (not necessarily anywhere authoritative) that the label didn't want her to put that song first--for understandable reasons (way to win people over: beginning your debut griping about the stresses of success), but good for her to have gotten her way. It makes perfect sense starting the album with that song.

Hmmm:

http://www.myspace.com/gagglespace

I really hope she blows up in popularity right in the faces of all the popist critics who dismiss her.

her album went to no.2 in the first week, which is a good start. much as I could care less about the popist critics, it'll be interesting to see how she does, particularly in comparison to her peers - florence, la roux, bat for lashes. I'd argue marina has stronger, more idiosyncratic songs, a better voice and a little more edge than those three, but may be a little too prickly and self-involved to achieve their mass appeal. it's also potentially problematic that her biggest song - hollywood - is both the weakest and most problematic on the album.

One thing that I think is being missed is her sense of humor about herself. I can't hear "And it's my problem if I have no friends and feel I want to die" (especially the way its sung) as other than at least partly funny. There's something about the lines in "Hollywood" (lines curiously missing from the liner notes): "I itch my skin/I jump up and say. . ." that I hear as somehow clued in to the absurdity of her extreme theatricality. I don't know, maybe I'm just projecting all sorts of stuff that isn't there, but in that case this album makes a fabulous ink blot. (Speaking of skin, in "Obsessions" she sings: "skin is on fire" even though the printed lyrics change this to "cheeks are on fire." Something tells me "skin is on fire" was just a little too confessional.)

There's also a lot of detail that I don't think is being given its do. I find something oddly compelling, for instance, about the way she starts to mumble-sing the "fast car" part in "Girls" before it begins in earnest. Also, where does that even come from and why does it work as well as it does? It seems a bit mysterious.

Question: what percentage of the time when she is addressing someone else or talking about someone else is she actually not addressing herself or talking about herself?

And I wonder if that will flip at some point. I wonder if rather than populating her songs with projections of herself she will at some point find her identity spread across others? She is a Libra after all, so there's a good chance this thing is going to want to balance itself out, plus there's the general other-directedness of Libra (though that's complicated in this case by her Leo moon).

I was with you until the astrology...!

anyway... I think it's fair to say it's ALL about her. and you're spot on about the little details: like the tiny glock chime that accompanies the word 'pins' in 'robot'. the halted, cut-up syllables at the end of 'satisfied'. the digital 'to be l-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-ved' in mowgli, the rhythm of which is foreshadowed in the previous bar. the way the chords of the moroder riff shift towards the end of 'shampain', emphasising her decline into drunken despondency... lots to chew on.

anyway... I think it's fair to say it's ALL about her

Which is double-edged, but on the more positive side, it means that when she is being didactic it's really as if she were writing exhortations to herself in a journal; and when she is being extremely critical, she's often at least partly criticizing herself. (I can't imagine anyone writing what she does in "Girls" whatever the lines are--I'm at work now so no music--about making money out of you insecurities, without realizing she is describing her own album.)

I keep telling myself I'm going to go through and catalog all my favorite small details on the album, but then I just end up bouncing along to it over and over again.

(Pathetically quick reply because works is slow tonight/this morning/whatever.)

not only that, but 'girls' rails against an obsession with stereotypically feminine fripperies and dieting, which must surely dwell on her mind every time she sings it, given that a) she's clearly worked hard to lose weight in the past few months, and b) is now doing a spot of modelling:

http://www.asos.com/Women/Women-Landing-Pages/20100219Fmarinaandthediamondsw/Cat/pgehtml.aspx?cid=10092

I sort of don't want to be reminded of what a painfully great figure she has (not complaining to you, just commenting in general).

like the tiny glock chime that accompanies the word 'pins' in 'robot'.

Yeah, I'm waiting for the Pantha du Prince remix.

like the tiny glock chime that accompanies the word 'pins' in 'robot'.

This is my favourite musical moment of the year! I'm not wild about Mowgli's (I can't get over 'spoons' - it sounds really student) and Hollywood is ugh, but I'm Not A Robot is just really wonderful and exciting.

I hate to say it but sometimes she reminds me of Jim Morrison. (Hate to say it because I don't like Jim Morrison.) Or even Genesis P-Orridge, possibly doing Jim Morrison, especially in that fast car bit at the end of "Girls"--that's exactly what it makes me think of: Genesis P-Orridge doing Jim Morrison.

I have a whole backlog of wacky things to say about this album.

I'm starting to think that the latter third of this album has some of its strongest work. numb, rootless, oh no! and guilty have graduated from underwhelming to stunning.

(all of which just makes hollywood seem more and more inexplicable)

Agreed, at this point I think at least that those last four songs are as strong as the rest (but I like Hollywood too).

I kind of like hollywood, but somewhat against my instincts/better judgement. it works best as a single, but seems highly anomalous in the context of the album.

I don't see where it's so removed thematically from her overall concerns about success/glamor, the ambivalence that runs throughout much of the album. And I don't hear it is sonically so different from "Oh No!" or "Girls," so I don't know. Speaking of "Girls," some of the same sort of complaints that could be made about Hollywood's lyrics could be made about it, I think. If anything "I Am Not a Robot" seems out of place somehow, even though it's very likely her strongest song. I don't know if it should have been placed somewhere differently in the album sequence, or if it just doesn't completely fit.

I do think I was exaggerating before when I suggested that her songs on this album are really solely populated with projections of herself. I don't hear "Guilty" as Marina addressing herself, and I think it's a stretch to interpret "Obessions" that way too.

(Incidentally, there are a couple seconds of electronic squiggles in "Shampain" that remind me of something in a Shiina Ringo song, but I haven't tracked that one down yet, probably because it's been a while since I've listened to Shouso Strip.)

'hollywood's swipes are not just at hollywood though, are they? calling an entire country 'a mess' is not a culture-specific assault like in 'girls', but is an attack (albeit in an affectionate, patronising kind of way) on a whole nation. and that stuff about the air hostess: gack!

sonically it's not a million miles from 'oh no!' (although it's more bloated, less effervescent) but the latter benefits from juxtaposed self deprecation, whereas 'hollywood's gaze turns outwards, so comes across as a little smug.

America is a mess, so as an American I have no problem with that, though I doubt Marina's list of what's wrong with the US would match mine too precisely.

In the course I reading interviews with her, I found one in which she said she was talking to herself in Hollywood. So I am perhaps being overly influenced by her own comments on it, but they do, after all, fit in with my own idea that she is talking to herself in a lot of the songs, even where it's not immediately obvious.

Still, I guess I have to agree it is her most stilted/pompous sounding song.

Have you noticed how often there is some stray sound at the end of a track? Easier to hear with headphones. Like the siren at the end of "Girls."

Listening to "Numb" at the moment and it really reminds me of big 70s production, with the strings and choir and everything (which is basically a good thing for me since the 70s is my favorite pop decade, even if this isn't necessarily my fave sound from the 70s).

I don't know why so many critics keep complaining about her lyrics. I think they are generally better than average (er, "Hollywood" aside, and maybe "Girls" as well). There are some imagistic threads that run through these songs (fast cars and stars, for instance--maybe she has been reading Dr. Seuss).

This album has saturated my brain so much that I think I'm not enjoying other music as much as I would otherwise. I want more that sounds like this. (Yes, I know I've been posting about other things, but for the most part it's been "eh, this sounds pretty good.")

I feel pretty certain she has at least a couple more good albums in her. The albums suggests lots of possible direction in which she could move, musically.

(Weird hours in a weird time zone. . .)