Joanna Newsom - Have One On Me (RIP blogs)

jon dont be a dick

i liked jon more when he was an agreeable and engaging ilm poster and not a complete dick

I liked kshighway more when he was an earnest indie boy before he melded his opinions to match whatever ILM consensus happens to be.

― you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0)

O_O

If my opinions were the same as "ILM consensus" (whatever that means), I don't think I'd get called out by people daily who think I'm completely wrong. Nice try, though.

Also, pretty sure Whiney dropped one of his opinions upthread when people called him out on it too. Because that's what reasonable people do when someone obviously proves them wrong.

I've just never seen someone switch from earnest and passionate to jaded and bitter so quickly, its disheartening that he felt the need to do so.

Not intentionally being a dick. I just liked kshighway when he was more earnest about what he loved.

there are many sides to ksh

ksh = american jagger, let's just move on with our lives

Uh, in the past day, I've thanked the people in the Rolling Metal thread for turning me on to Alcest, whose 2007 record I'm "earnest and passionate" about?

Hmm yeah but on this thread you've ragged on people who've mostly just been trying to defend Newsom! It's fine to call bullshit on the arguments, but character-attacks aren't on. Especially coming from someone I rate and respect as an ILM poster.

American jagger, stay away from me
American jagger, mama let me be
Don't come hanging around my door
I don't want to see your face no more
I got more important things to do
Than spend my time growin' old with you
Now jagger, stay away
American jagger, listen what I say

American jagger, get away from me
American jagger, mama let me be
Don't come knocking around my door
I don't want to see your shadow no more
Colored lights can hypnotize
Sparkle someone else's eyes
Now jagger, get away
American jagger, listen what I say

LJ, was that addressed to me or jon?

And jon,

Man, I have so much love for Ys, but I could see why some would prefer Mender.

Wilco did "avant-garde" better with YHF, tho. . . . . . . . . .

― ksh, Sunday, February 28, 2010 3:18 PM (1 hour ago)

Except for the Wilco joke, pretty sure this qualifies as earnest too. But I'm done defending myself now, thanks.

hahaha que

It was addressed to Jon, quite obviously. You may yet earn similar levels of respect.

hahaha

At least Whiney sticks to his guns when he has an opinion, kshighway keeps backing down whenever his opinions are challenged. I can tell you which of the two I admire more.

I don't understand this opinion tbh! "backing down" here seems to be "having a mind open enough to be persuaded" which seems a positive & constructive value & especially useful in learning various ways to appreciate & experience music & other art

peeanna newsom

Something I was alluding to above is that I generally like the adventure of these sorts of sprawling multi-disk albums, the sense of discovery. I like this album plenty, but so far it doesn't hold many real surprises for me, pleasant and well-crafted/performed though it may be, and its length may prevent me from taking the time to see how it could grow on me in an honest way. Maybe after five listens it would really click, maybe after five listens I'll never want to hear it again, but I highly doubt I'll ever give it five full listens. Ever. And I like it! Too much of a good thing? Too much of a good enough thing? I would have gladly accepted a few scattered lows in return for a few more overt highs.

what if you pretended that she only released the first disc, and listen to that a lot. and then a year from now, pretend in your mind that she released the second disc as a new album, and listen to that one a lot. and then a year from that, pretend that the third disc is another album

Good strategy! I'll let you know how it goes in 2013. Hopefully she (or anyone else) won't release anything new until then.

Jon is just upset because he is an engine driverrrrrrr.

Sorry guys, obviously I was being a bit of a dick earlier and I didn't intend to come across that way. I've just noticed this evolution in kshighway over the months and I found it to be a bit disappointing. I mean, he got ragged on a LOT when he first showed up for being overly excitable and earnest. Maybe its an inevitable part of the evolution of an ilxor, but he seemed to switch really quickly into snarky, jaded mode. Which was disappointing to me, because the earnestness was refreshing in a weird way. I just don't like new posters thinking that bitter snarkiness is the quickest way to fit in. I'd rather have new posters do their own thing!

I don't understand this opinion tbh! "backing down" here seems to be "having a mind open enough to be persuaded" which seems a positive & constructive value & especially useful in learning various ways to appreciate & experience music & other art

Yeah, this is OTM generally, but I feel like there's been a few threads where he has backed down rather quickly. I think sometimes its important to just stick behind something you love, even if its an unpopular opinion. But maybe I was just misreading what he's been saying.

Anyway, just popping back in to apologize to ksh and everyone else if I came across like an ass. Really not the impression I like to make.

I'll blame Whiney for setting me on edge.

:)

"standing up for your opinions" vs "ceding to criticism" doesnt really map on to "earnest" vs "jaded" ime

"ceding" is kind of a loaded word imo - the whole point of having opinions is to have them grow & become more useful & interesting in the facilitation of dialogue & reflection, not to have creeds 'n' shit

that said, Led Zeppelin is still #1

i just mean that earnest posters are more likely to change their opinions or admit wrongdoing

cynical jaded posters are more likely to forgo having opinions in favor of zings

ok yeah I can dig it

what if you pretended that she only released the first disc, and listen to that a lot. and then a year from now, pretend in your mind that she released the second disc as a new album, and listen to that one a lot. and then a year from that, pretend that the third disc is another album

makes the joanna newsom album sound like the lord of the rings movie trilogy (filmed at the same time, but released in three installments in three successive years). it's perfect in a way: lotr had unicorns, i think.

(or at least it had orcs).

re jon's post

No problem, dude!

Regarding this:

I've just noticed this evolution in kshighway over the months and I found it to be a bit disappointing. I mean, he got ragged on a LOT when he first showed up for being overly excitable and earnest. Maybe its an inevitable part of the evolution of an ilxor, but he seemed to switch really quickly into snarky, jaded mode. Which was disappointing to me, because the earnestness was refreshing in a weird way. I just don't like new posters thinking that bitter snarkiness is the quickest way to fit in. I'd rather have new posters do their own thing!

Here's the thing. To some degree, new posters can't "do their own thing" here, and that's not their fault. For example, if I wanted to start an engaged, sincere discussion of Wilco right now, I almost couldn't, in part because ILM as a community has already discussed Wilco to death, and I came here too late to be a part of those discussions, but also in part because Wilco is a band that most ILMers, as far as I can tell, don't have time for. The ROI for me starting a thread on a lot of the stuff I like—see this thread—is so low that it's not worth it for me to bother. So, instead, I join in on the threads others have started about whatever band ILM's interested in talking about this week, and that's fine. I haven't abandoned my enthusiasm for Wilco, The Antlers, and whatever other indie acts I've been listening to for the past five years, but I don't talk about them here as much as I did when I started.

As far as the "jadedness" thing goes, I disagree: I don't think I'm jaded at all! Yeah, I've engaged in stuff like joking about Joanna Newsom and unicorns, but, at least in this thread, that's not because I want to "fit in," that's just because, when a thread I start takes a sharp turn into mocking someone I like and it looks like no one wants to actually talk about the music, my options are to either abandon the thread or just join in the joking around, and sometimes if I'm bored enough I'll just choose to join in. That doesn't mean I've started to dislike her because a lot of ILM dislikes her! I still love Ys, and I'm still interested in figuring out HOOM. But I can still find unicorn jokes funny even if I think they're kinda inaccurate, and I can laugh at stuff I like without turning my back on it.

I also think we have to agree that the dominant tone on a lot of threads is not just snarky but really, really rude. From the time I started posting as "kshighway," people called me a sock constantly, in part because I posted a lot about indie rock and had no idea what was going on here and had no idea what the tacit assumptions people held here were. Being here for some months now, I understand this place better. But a lot of the people who are actually jaded still show up to harass me, because that's just what happens here. Instead of flipping out about it all the time like when I first got here, I increasingly just try to ignore those people.

Anyway, that's not to say I haven't said anything that's snarky or jaded. I have. But I'm still enthusiastic about the stuff I like, and I don't think I'm a jaded person. Rock it.

rock on!

I like wilco

rude?

fuck you

wilco fan since 1995 right here, guys. love that band.

So are we ready to start discussing the new Joanna Newsom album yet?

i hear it's 3 cds

i like some wilco

yeah, i mean, it's kinda the same thing with Newsom, Wilco, Animal Collective , I dunno, other bands, too. Bands that get ridiculous praise for being groundbreaking -- ILM just has a knee jerk reaction to that stuff, I've found. Rightly, too! Nothing new. Just funny to make light of the "omg best band EVER" reactions.

i like how ppl on this thread have now complained

i) that this record has too many songs which have repetitive traditional melodies/forms
ii) that this record has too many songs which do other things and neglect traditional melodies/forms

More Barn!!

which, tbh, i. and ii. are kind of microcosms of the larger thing that goes on, where ppl say

i. joanna newsom is so amazing and otherworldly and beyond description
ii. joanna newsom is ehhhhhhh; lol unicorns

— & in neither case do we actually get at what joanna newsom is doing, or what the songs are

yeah i would love to actually talk about this record, but i think we'd need a new thread, and it would need to not be on ilx.

i think we talked a little bit about this record, it just in between all the unicorn jokes and the sidebar about post kshighway

totally worth giving it a go i reckon

i mean it's a pretty good record and all