Joanna Newsom - Have One On Me (RIP blogs)

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Also it's so weird to me how a lot of people hold MeM as the standard, as I think it's mostly a big pile of shit.

Turangalila, Sunday, 28 February 2010 19:50 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't think it's a "pile of shit," but I definitely think it looks slight next to Ys.

ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 19:51 (fourteen years ago) link

MeM is so good. I dunno. To me Milk-Eyed Mender always felt like when someone gets the right balance between traditional rock and out-weirdo elements. Like Sonic Youth's EVOL or Faith No More's Angel Dust. Ys and HOOM just seem like trying to hard to be a serious artist, yknow?

zvocksucker (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 February 2010 19:53 (fourteen years ago) link

I think there's like, three good songs in that album and some of the others might be okayish but to me they're either unlistenable (e.g., cannot withstand one listen of studio "Peach, Plum, & Pear") or just... not that interesting.

I genuinely think she re-wrote much of Ys *around* VDP's arrangements and not the other way around and don't think I'd like those songs half as much without the additional harmonies & counterpoint.

Turangalila, Sunday, 28 February 2010 19:57 (fourteen years ago) link

xp i dont really hear that at all tbh

max, Sunday, 28 February 2010 19:57 (fourteen years ago) link

Ys and HOOM just seem like trying to hard to be a serious artist, yknow?

Yeah, she shouldn't try to do this.

stoke for the shawcross (acoleuthic), Sunday, 28 February 2010 19:59 (fourteen years ago) link

Joanna Newsome Hamburgers Olympics

Mr. Que, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:02 (fourteen years ago) link

MeM is so good. I dunno. To me Milk-Eyed Mender always felt like when someone gets the right balance between traditional rock and out-weirdo elements. Like Sonic Youth's EVOL or Faith No More's Angel Dust. Ys and HOOM just seem like trying to hard to be a serious artist, yknow?

always weird to me when Whiney & me see almost completely eye-to-eye on something

at the same time, I really think it's awesome that she seems eager to challenge herself to grow, that it's a big part of who she is as an artist. but I am a keep-the-song-short kinda dude as is known. epic metal bands get a pass but generally speaking I'm more interested in compressed narratives/pieces, which MeM excelled in imo

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:08 (fourteen years ago) link

i mean the "weird band grows increasingly more accessible" thing is VERY well-worn and familiar in indie music (Sonic Youth, White Zombie, Husker Du, Butthole Surfers, Jesus Lizard, Animal Collective, Deerhoof)

but the "popular artist growing increasingly stranger" is a little more rare and way harder to pull off

zvocksucker (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:12 (fourteen years ago) link

like joanna, i think Mastodon is another band who used to be great with simple weirdo-rock and are now just look silly trying to be a serious, art-prog band.

zvocksucker (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:14 (fourteen years ago) link

jeez u zvuck one cock and suddenly fools are mad reachin in their new dn

Whiney Zzzz Weingarten (zvookster), Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:15 (fourteen years ago) link

i haven't decided whether to start beefing with you yet

zvocksucker (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:16 (fourteen years ago) link

"popular artist growing increasingly stranger"

Am looking for this thread, am sure we've done it. lol Talk Talk amirite (also, Blur, sorta)

stoke for the shawcross (acoleuthic), Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:17 (fourteen years ago) link

Scott Walker!

I actually think the new one is sort of casual stuff, not especially "serious artist"y, and if it were 35 minutes long rather than 125 minutes I doubt anyone would be making that claim. That said, I'm still unconvinced the new one had to be as long as it is, because I'm not sure how its length works to its benefit. It's not like it's some thrilling all over the place "Sign 'o the Times"/"Sandinista!" grab bag, or a particularly compelling song-cycle/narrative (you know, like Tori Amos' "Scarlet's Walk!"). I sort of wish it was, though it's also fine enough as it is. I'd be curious if anyone considers this the strongest of her three records, even though that's how it's been posited by much of the hyperbole. Then again: hyperbole.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:18 (fourteen years ago) link

Man, I have so much love for Ys, but I could see why some would prefer Mender.

Wilco did "avant-garde" better with YHF, tho. . . . . . . . . .

ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:18 (fourteen years ago) link

j/k

ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:19 (fourteen years ago) link

have one on me is the most accessible thing shes done, if you ask me.

max, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:19 (fourteen years ago) link

i think the song length is really a red herring, esp. in the case of have on on me

max, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:19 (fourteen years ago) link

If you're talking about her voice on it, sure. The production, sure. But it's three fucking discs long, I'm a huge fan, and it's difficult for even me to slog through.

ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:20 (fourteen years ago) link

Nah, I fully go with that statement. YHF is unfairly kicked these days, and has some (albeit isolated) moments of genuine avant-garde vision.

xxxp

stoke for the shawcross (acoleuthic), Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:20 (fourteen years ago) link

I would be curious to know whether she thinks it's something to be listened to front-to-back.

ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:20 (fourteen years ago) link

three discs doesnt make her 'weird' or 'inaccessible' it just makes it long

max, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:21 (fourteen years ago) link

If she sees this as a unified record to be listened to front-to-back, I think the fact that it is over two hours long is enough to make the record as a whole "inaccessible," even if its constituent parts aren't.

ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:23 (fourteen years ago) link

I see where you're coming from though.

ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:24 (fourteen years ago) link

i mean... 'inaccessible' in some sense? but thats not what were talking about is it? were talking about the arc of her career (pop --> weird vs. weird --> pop) or whatever. and even then its like... i dont think shes doing any of the things ppl are ascribing to her

max, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:25 (fourteen years ago) link

haha whiney if it goes down msg me with an official declaration so's i'll know. is it true you took the hardman award home from TwitterCon???

zvookster, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:28 (fourteen years ago) link

I know Whiney abandoned the argument, but I think there's a legit discussion to be had about art school rock (or whatever they call it) v. "authentic" avant garde, and where Newsom falls into that spectrum

Mordy, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:29 (fourteen years ago) link

oh jesus pls don't say authentic even in scare quotes

zvocksucker (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:30 (fourteen years ago) link

haha yeah because your use of the word "real" last time around was way better

max, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:30 (fourteen years ago) link

tbaa i don't think it matters much how schooled-on-a-remote-mountain my arty music is

stoke for the shawcross (acoleuthic), Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:32 (fourteen years ago) link

tbaa = touched by an angel?

Mordy, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:34 (fourteen years ago) link

max I think "longer" does = "less accessible" to an extent - even, like, recall when Elvis Costello was making 20-song albums: it was asking a lot of a listener - even saying "look, you don't have to listen to it all at once" is kind of asking for more attention & engagement from the listener than a standard album, which is just, here's a known format, you know what to do, put it on and give it +/- three quarters of an hour, do other stuff while it spins, enjoy.

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:42 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah sure

max, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:45 (fourteen years ago) link

id just hope that there is more to the "joanna newsom is getting MORE weird" theory than "she released a triple LP"

max, Sunday, 28 February 2010 20:45 (fourteen years ago) link

she also puts ketchup on her oatmeal iirc

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:00 (fourteen years ago) link

max is the only person who is making any sense in here--the album is broken up into three 6-song discs for those of us who still buy cds--it is extremely accessible.

call all destroyer, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:01 (fourteen years ago) link

all this talk of avant garde/artistic pretensions is insane--she's basically a folk singer.

call all destroyer, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:02 (fourteen years ago) link

doesn't really matter how many records its broken up across, it's still one piece

ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:04 (fourteen years ago) link

assuming we can still call HOOM qua collection of songs an album

ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:05 (fourteen years ago) link

like joanna, i think Mastodon is another band who used to be great with simple weirdo-rock and are now just look silly trying to be a serious, art-prog band.

― zvocksucker (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, February 28, 2010 3:14 PM (48 minutes ago) Bookmark

also this is wrong in a sense--mastodon has gotten compositionally more "serious" and "prog" but actually their music, part-to-part, is much less intricate. this is why they are an occasionally enjoyable, mor metal band now.

call all destroyer, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:05 (fourteen years ago) link

ksh i don't really want to get into a "what is an album" discussion but the point is that hoom has two logical break points that open wide the door to the listener digesting it in pieces.

call all destroyer, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:07 (fourteen years ago) link

all this talk of avant garde/artistic pretensions is insane--she's basically a folk singer.

― call all destroyer

the point I was trying to make upthread is that of course it's ridiculous for people to call her music avant-garde, but for some reason people do it, again and again

ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:08 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah i guess i'm just going to get annoyed if we can only talk about this record through the lens how how some mysterious constructed 25-35 year old thinks of it.

call all destroyer, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:10 (fourteen years ago) link

re "digested in pieces"

when it comes to a novel or something, it's just sort of assumed that the reader will take it in in multiple sittings. but with a record that isn't some sort of multi-disk compilation or something, with an album, i think there's sort of an expectation that it will be taken in in one sitting, so spreading something across three discs is going to try the patience of many listeners.

ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:10 (fourteen years ago) link

ok here's a hint--by running time, this could have fit on two cds.

call all destroyer, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:12 (fourteen years ago) link

this is a degree of whiny tight-assery that should be filed under some word that "first world problems" won't adequately cover

― allyboy (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, February 22, 2010 12:44 PM (6 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

jeff, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:12 (fourteen years ago) link

it's two hours long. i don't know about you, but i think the ideal length for a record is somewhere between a half hour and fifty minutes nine cases out of ten. not to say this one should be shorter, but even as a JN stan, i really can't see myself listening to this straight through too often, if ever.

ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:14 (fourteen years ago) link

and if i start to listen to it in parts instead of straight through, then that's a really different approach to listening to a record than i, and i'd assume many of us here, usually take.

ksh, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:15 (fourteen years ago) link

yes--you are making my point for me--it is broken up across three discs so that you don't need to listen to it straight through. if you feel some weirdo obligation to because it's an "album" i don't know what to tell you.

call all destroyer, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:16 (fourteen years ago) link

i listen to parts of albums all the time--since i mostly listen to music when i'm driving or walking somewhere i'm beholden to however long my trips are.

call all destroyer, Sunday, 28 February 2010 21:16 (fourteen years ago) link


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