Assaulting bystanders is obv never acceptable and gets the cops called on you even in shady nightclubs, fwiw
― FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT IN THE PARKING LOT! (milo z), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:19 (fourteen years ago) link
keut hipster girl is ultimately responsible for this whole thing btw, all clearly inciting alpha male violence in an attempt to win her affection
why are nightfights at bars and dayfights on a bus different? because there are about 1,000,000 movies that feature bar brawls and only one movie with a busbrawl - SPEED starring the lady from THE BLIND SIDE ('95)
― iiiijjjj, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:20 (fourteen years ago) link
oops i mean SPEED ('94)
― iiiijjjj, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:21 (fourteen years ago) link
apparently the point is that riding the bus in Oakland is akin to going to a shady nightclub every other weekend, according to residents in Oakland
yep. Oakland is fucked up.
― Wrinkles, I'll see you on the other side (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:30 (fourteen years ago) link
Caveat: I haven't and can't see this at work
As a square-looking middle-aged white guy, I am as sensitive as anybody to the threat of black-on-white aggression in public transport as any white guy out there; I don't even bother taking the bus home from work anymore (preferring the MUNI train) 'cause of all the (mostly) black kids smoking pot at PM, rowdily, noisily (and, frankly, just like me at their age, except for the weed-smoking and threats of violence, many of which are attention-seeking and mere provocation). However, it IS public transport and I'm not so omphaloskeptic nor so 'relativist' as to think that, when it comes down to real danger or real social harm, I wouldn't help a driver, a fellow passenger, or my normative view of behavior in public to intervene; I've helped 'escort' racist or homophobic passangers off the bus, when necessary. There is nothing funny about people (as Kant would put it) treating others as mean, about them making facile judgements about someone else based on the accident of their race as opposed to their behavior.
What particularly saddens me is that, in this bad economy where people are in bad straights, it is increasingly frequent to see class, and racial and gender and orientation conflicts rise to the fore AND to see an increased tendency to resort to violence. People thrying to frighten other people based on their race or people responding thereto in a way that implicates uninvolved people are ignoble swine. I'm mostly fine with a dick getting his come-uppance but I don't find it particularly funny; if you're comforted by righteous violence, okay I get it, but I wish there was more social solidarity and far more violence altogether.
― L'obamalâtrie obligatoire (Michael White), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:37 (fourteen years ago) link
from previous thred:
"I've been beaten up enough times in my life"
I'm not shocked by this revelation, but not sure it's true either.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 2:27 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
In fairness, one can be beaten up once and that would be "enough times"
― Astronaut Mike Dexter (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:37 (fourteen years ago) link
In an instance like this where both participants are dicks, really the only way for them both to get their comeuppance is if both of them are arrested.
inappropriate chuckle at "people are in bad straights" typo
― sheryl crow but with a very long butt (HI DERE), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:41 (fourteen years ago) link
Dan, what a depressing link.
― L'obamalâtrie obligatoire (Michael White), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:42 (fourteen years ago) link
I wish there was more social solidarity and far more violence altogether.
hardman Michael White
― Wrinkles, I'll see you on the other side (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:43 (fourteen years ago) link
What really depresses me, though you're probably right about them both getting arrested, is that that means that the bus will be held up, commuters peaceably making their way home will be inconvienced, and worse, and I don't want to sound too vigilante here, but the peaceability of public areas policed by decent locals will have been shown to have failed, which is both sad and intimidating.
― L'obamalâtrie obligatoire (Michael White), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:45 (fourteen years ago) link
Shakey, I don't know where you live, but I CAN find you and I will rain down upon you a torrent of, fuck it, French abuse, the likes of which you will not have heard since that one time, oops, anyway, you know which time.
― L'obamalâtrie obligatoire (Michael White), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:47 (fourteen years ago) link
ideally what would've happened here is that some of the other passengers in the back of the bus dissuaded black dude from following crazy white dude to the front - cuz that's really where the line was crossed. but people aren't always amenable to persuasion.
― Wrinkles, I'll see you on the other side (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:48 (fourteen years ago) link
lolz x-posts
Actually, this basically makes me go back to my lazy Commie tendencies and wonder why there's so many people off their meds, so many bad, anti-social, unemployed drunks, so many hopeless kids, so many people whose first impulse is to just strike out. </libtard>
― L'obamalâtrie obligatoire (Michael White), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:49 (fourteen years ago) link
also that link brings up this:
http://sfcitizen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/img_9386-copy-450x675.jpg
and I'm not 100% sure that's how I want ppl organizing/carrying their similarly shaped weaponry
― Astronaut Mike Dexter (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:50 (fourteen years ago) link
yeah that's how handcuffed guys on the ground get shot in the head amirite
― Wrinkles, I'll see you on the other side (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:50 (fourteen years ago) link
xxp Because they're unhappy, and they're not going to take it anymore. Whatever "it" is.
― Let's see how tough Aquaman is once we get him in the water. (Laurel), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:51 (fourteen years ago) link
Isn't the NYE BART killing case kind of hedging on where his Taser was holstered?
― L'obamalâtrie obligatoire (Michael White), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:51 (fourteen years ago) link
"In fairness, one can be beaten up once and that would be "enough times""
This is Tuomas we're talking about here.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:51 (fourteen years ago) link
Whatever "it" is.
That always turns out so well, though, no?
― L'obamalâtrie obligatoire (Michael White), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:52 (fourteen years ago) link
hedging
do you mean "hinging"? what is it with you today!
― Wrinkles, I'll see you on the other side (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:52 (fourteen years ago) link
I'm not 100% sure that's how I want ppl organizing/carrying their similarly shaped weaponry
this is OTM time a bazillion
― sheryl crow but with a very long butt (HI DERE), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:53 (fourteen years ago) link
is public transportation in oakland that much worse than in nyc in terms of public safety? genuine question
― max, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:54 (fourteen years ago) link
Drinks at lunch I had a bit of an 'altercation' on MUNI at lunch.
― L'obamalâtrie obligatoire (Michael White), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:54 (fourteen years ago) link
So many white people seem to see this as "Thank god an innocent, harmless white person finally stood up to menacing crazy black people" - as though they perceive themselves as under constant siege from black people. (That in itself I would guess is largely a result of media rather than experience).
^^^ The thing giving me the most pause out of the whole several threads re this incident.
― Let's see how tough Aquaman is once we get him in the water. (Laurel), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:55 (fourteen years ago) link
do cops bring assault rifles onto buses in NY? cuz I have seen this happen on AC Transit
― Wrinkles, I'll see you on the other side (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:57 (fourteen years ago) link
Laurel's got a good point. Once it ceases to be white/black, and let's put ourselves in the shoes of a middle-aged black lady, it's just about whatever out-of-control asshole is going to ruin your commute today.
― L'obamalâtrie obligatoire (Michael White), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:58 (fourteen years ago) link
I haven't really spent too much time in the in the bronx or east brooklyn, but I tend to feel safer on nyc transit than east bay (or sf) transit - even in nice parts of the bay area the transit is surprisingly sketch
― iatee, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 21:59 (fourteen years ago) link
I feel plenty safe on SF transit now that I don't ride the 9 anymore - but even on that nothing really bad happened to me, per se. I did witness some sketchy shit.
― Wrinkles, I'll see you on the other side (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:00 (fourteen years ago) link
I don't even know what my point is! But that point is making me think baot some things.
― Let's see how tough Aquaman is once we get him in the water. (Laurel), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:00 (fourteen years ago) link
primarily involving people off their meds + teenagers
x-post
this is partly due to way more middle-class people owning cars in the bay area xp to myself
― iatee, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:01 (fourteen years ago) link
My buses/trains are mostly fine, 6, 71, MUNI to Church but I feel safer in NYC, even late at night.
― L'obamalâtrie obligatoire (Michael White), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:01 (fourteen years ago) link
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 4:51 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
That's a little not-non-dickish
― Astronaut Mike Dexter (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:02 (fourteen years ago) link
Did NYC pass a watershed moment when it became "sometimes sketch, mostly adequate" sometime during the Giuliani administration? I have heard stories about sitting next to someone who was knifed silently on the train and the attacker walked off at the next stop and no one noticed until the train lurched and the victim fell over. That was one generation ago (happened to my aunt) and seems like a movie about New York, to me.
Then again, someone in my social cohort was shot at on the G train in mid-Brooklyn back in the mid-'90s.
― Let's see how tough Aquaman is once we get him in the water. (Laurel), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:05 (fourteen years ago) link
http://newcentrist.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/goetz-cover.jpg
― velko, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:08 (fourteen years ago) link
My aunt lived in NYC in the 70's and it sounded genuinely terrifying. Post Giuliani NYC does have a rep for being safer but also for being duller. Take your pick, I guess. I thought most crime stats boiled down to demographics in the end.
― L'obamalâtrie obligatoire (Michael White), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:10 (fourteen years ago) link
I guess that was a dumb question, huh.
― Let's see how tough Aquaman is once we get him in the water. (Laurel), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:12 (fourteen years ago) link
ive never felt threatened on buses or trains in nyc, knock wood
― max, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:12 (fourteen years ago) link
I have actually been threatened by someone on a train in NYC but it was at rush hour so it wasn't all that dangerous but was purely for intimidation/point-scoring.
― Let's see how tough Aquaman is once we get him in the water. (Laurel), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:13 (fourteen years ago) link
but as MTA starts getting shittier and shittier and more and more ppl abandon it i imagine it will get sketchier and sketchier. right now even at weird hours im rarely the only person in the subway station or on the train.
― max, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:14 (fourteen years ago) link
I see WAY more cops in nyc than I do in sf/east bay
― iatee, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:14 (fourteen years ago) link
http://chasness.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/death_wish.jpg
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:15 (fourteen years ago) link
You're commute sounds heroic, iatee
― L'obamalâtrie obligatoire (Michael White), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:15 (fourteen years ago) link
luckily nypd is stopping and searching more and more black people every year, for your safety
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/stop_frisk_record_voNoD2KGtU2a2otqGTPgDO
― max, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:15 (fourteen years ago) link
ya I wish they would just merge bart and mta :(
― iatee, Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:17 (fourteen years ago) link
Once someone takes a swing at you and you decide to fight back, that's no time to start pulling your punches or worrying about 'going overboard' - you fight until the other guy no longer poses a threat.
― FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT! FIST FIGHT IN THE PARKING LOT! (milo z), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 3:55 PM (1 hour ago)
is this what you really believe?
― vag gangsta (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:17 (fourteen years ago) link
given the remarkably assholish track record of both SF and Oakland's PDs I'm not sure I really wanna see any more cops on Muni tbh. Like Mike White, I kinda wish the general populace was a little more assertive about (non-violently) policing themselves...
― Wrinkles, I'll see you on the other side (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:17 (fourteen years ago) link
Bra MattBar MattBrat TamBrat MatBat MartBat TramTab MartTab Tram
Not so promising
― L'obamalâtrie obligatoire (Michael White), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:18 (fourteen years ago) link
sorry i know it's been an hour and a half or whatever but damn
― vag gangsta (k3vin k.), Wednesday, 17 February 2010 22:18 (fourteen years ago) link