Talking in a non-dickish way about the AC Transit fight

I'll dispute that both should have been arrested. I don't think either should, really, but if anything the first to punch goes to jail.

But I dunno, I've occasionally worked the door at a shady club for a couple of years now and there's a small tussle just about every weekend. I'm probably more at peace with fighting because of it - dudes of all ages and races are stupid and aggro and this kind of shit will always happen.

http://sfcitizen.com/blog/2010/02/17/how-should-the-sfpd-deal-with-somebody-like-epic-beard-man-thomas-bruso-tasers/

http://sfcitizen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/4364045941_acf02a6531_o.jpg

amazing this dude is famous for just being an asshole on the bus

I mean like with a track record and documented history and everything

“Back in 1996, I was working at the intersection of 2nd & Market. Each and every day the man pictured above would walk by my shop, wave a loaf of sourdough in my face, and scream obscenities about the San Francisco 49′ers.”

I'm 100% I've seen this guy btw

100% certain that is

milo, what's your point? that because it happens all the time, that nothing should be done about it?

Once someone takes a swing at you and you decide to fight back, that's no time to start pulling your punches or worrying about 'going overboard' - you fight until the other guy no longer poses a threat.

how can you watch the video and honestly say that motherfucker didn't fight past the point of non-motherfucker not being a threat? by my count i can see motherfucker land exactly 11 punches, those are the ones that we see before the camera starts jostling around anyway, and then when the camerawoman regains focus, motherfucker is kicking (and punching?) the guy while he's restrained on the ground.

Not shocked he's a Raiders fan, tbh.

I think the MF guy was probably more-or-less in the right at the end, I'm just not so quick to think he's a hero in this situation and I think it's pretty o_0 that so many people think of him as one. Calls to mind the end of Taxi Driver in a small way.

xp - I think they should be removed from the bus and treated for injuries, and if either wants to press charges then you can talk about arresting people. But yeah, it happens all the time, and it's not that big of a deal.

As to when you stop, that's a function of adrenaline and regaining your focus. It's much less likely for a drunk guy or a crazy old guy to regain their composure after a punch or two (this is, again, why you shouldn't pick fights with crazy old men. Or drunk guys.) - and I didn't see Motherfucker stop for a minute and then continue beating. He moves to get away when he appears to realize the fight is effectively over.

so I watched it through to the end this time and jesus christ

the girl who filmed this shouldn't have touched that dude's bag

Carles weighs in on most important aspect:
http://altreport.hipsterrunoff.com/2010/02/keut-hipster-girl-watches-white-guy-beat-up-black-guy-on-public-bus.html

xxpost light scuffles at shady clubs every other weekend might not be too big of a deal, but c'mon bloody fistfights on public transportation in the middle of the day? it's totally different.

can't wait for the hipsterpuppies take

Why is it different? Because members of the public saw it in broad daylight?

http://www.ktvu.com/news/22586811/detail.html

apparently the point is that riding the bus in Oakland is akin to going to a shady nightclub every other weekend, according to residents in Oakland

so I watched it through to the end this time and jesus christ

the girl who filmed this shouldn't have touched that dude's bag

― sheryl crow but with a very long butt (HI DERE), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:12 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

she also shouldn't have been encouraging non-mf to kick mf's ass

that wasn't her, that was one of her friends; she was the one saying "it's not worth it, blood"

Assaulting bystanders is obv never acceptable and gets the cops called on you even in shady nightclubs, fwiw

keut hipster girl is ultimately responsible for this whole thing btw, all clearly inciting alpha male violence in an attempt to win her affection

why are nightfights at bars and dayfights on a bus different? because there are about 1,000,000 movies that feature bar brawls and only one movie with a busbrawl - SPEED starring the lady from THE BLIND SIDE ('95)

oops i mean SPEED ('94)

apparently the point is that riding the bus in Oakland is akin to going to a shady nightclub every other weekend, according to residents in Oakland

yep. Oakland is fucked up.

Caveat: I haven't and can't see this at work

As a square-looking middle-aged white guy, I am as sensitive as anybody to the threat of black-on-white aggression in public transport as any white guy out there; I don't even bother taking the bus home from work anymore (preferring the MUNI train) 'cause of all the (mostly) black kids smoking pot at PM, rowdily, noisily (and, frankly, just like me at their age, except for the weed-smoking and threats of violence, many of which are attention-seeking and mere provocation). However, it IS public transport and I'm not so omphaloskeptic nor so 'relativist' as to think that, when it comes down to real danger or real social harm, I wouldn't help a driver, a fellow passenger, or my normative view of behavior in public to intervene; I've helped 'escort' racist or homophobic passangers off the bus, when necessary. There is nothing funny about people (as Kant would put it) treating others as mean, about them making facile judgements about someone else based on the accident of their race as opposed to their behavior.

What particularly saddens me is that, in this bad economy where people are in bad straights, it is increasingly frequent to see class, and racial and gender and orientation conflicts rise to the fore AND to see an increased tendency to resort to violence. People thrying to frighten other people based on their race or people responding thereto in a way that implicates uninvolved people are ignoble swine. I'm mostly fine with a dick getting his come-uppance but I don't find it particularly funny; if you're comforted by righteous violence, okay I get it, but I wish there was more social solidarity and far more violence altogether.

from previous thred:

"I've been beaten up enough times in my life"

I'm not shocked by this revelation, but not sure it's true either.

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 2:27 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

In fairness, one can be beaten up once and that would be "enough times"

In an instance like this where both participants are dicks, really the only way for them both to get their comeuppance is if both of them are arrested.

inappropriate chuckle at "people are in bad straights" typo

Dan, what a depressing link.

I wish there was more social solidarity and far more violence altogether.

hardman Michael White

What really depresses me, though you're probably right about them both getting arrested, is that that means that the bus will be held up, commuters peaceably making their way home will be inconvienced, and worse, and I don't want to sound too vigilante here, but the peaceability of public areas policed by decent locals will have been shown to have failed, which is both sad and intimidating.

Shakey, I don't know where you live, but I CAN find you and I will rain down upon you a torrent of, fuck it, French abuse, the likes of which you will not have heard since that one time, oops, anyway, you know which time.

ideally what would've happened here is that some of the other passengers in the back of the bus dissuaded black dude from following crazy white dude to the front - cuz that's really where the line was crossed. but people aren't always amenable to persuasion.

lolz x-posts

Actually, this basically makes me go back to my lazy Commie tendencies and wonder why there's so many people off their meds, so many bad, anti-social, unemployed drunks, so many hopeless kids, so many people whose first impulse is to just strike out. </libtard>

also that link brings up this:

http://sfcitizen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/img_9386-copy-450x675.jpg

and I'm not 100% sure that's how I want ppl organizing/carrying their similarly shaped weaponry

yeah that's how handcuffed guys on the ground get shot in the head amirite

xxp Because they're unhappy, and they're not going to take it anymore. Whatever "it" is.

Isn't the NYE BART killing case kind of hedging on where his Taser was holstered?

"In fairness, one can be beaten up once and that would be "enough times""

This is Tuomas we're talking about here.

Whatever "it" is.

That always turns out so well, though, no?

hedging

do you mean "hinging"? what is it with you today!

I'm not 100% sure that's how I want ppl organizing/carrying their similarly shaped weaponry

this is OTM time a bazillion

is public transportation in oakland that much worse than in nyc in terms of public safety? genuine question

do you mean "hinging"? what is it with you today!

Drinks at lunch I had a bit of an 'altercation' on MUNI at lunch.

So many white people seem to see this as "Thank god an innocent, harmless white person finally stood up to menacing crazy black people" - as though they perceive themselves as under constant siege from black people. (That in itself I would guess is largely a result of media rather than experience).

^^^ The thing giving me the most pause out of the whole several threads re this incident.

is public transportation in oakland that much worse than in nyc in terms of public safety? genuine question

do cops bring assault rifles onto buses in NY? cuz I have seen this happen on AC Transit

Laurel's got a good point. Once it ceases to be white/black, and let's put ourselves in the shoes of a middle-aged black lady, it's just about whatever out-of-control asshole is going to ruin your commute today.

is public transportation in oakland that much worse than in nyc in terms of public safety? genuine question

I haven't really spent too much time in the in the bronx or east brooklyn, but I tend to feel safer on nyc transit than east bay (or sf) transit - even in nice parts of the bay area the transit is surprisingly sketch

I feel plenty safe on SF transit now that I don't ride the 9 anymore - but even on that nothing really bad happened to me, per se. I did witness some sketchy shit.

I don't even know what my point is! But that point is making me think baot some things.