Talking in a non-dickish way about the AC Transit fight

fluxnyne (50 minutes ago) Show Hide 0 Marked as spam

Reply holy shit, I didn't know the A's even had fans.

talking in a non-dickish way about the oakland a's

Wait is that really the same dude from the A's taser youtube? Jeez that guy gets around.

Also fuck you fluxnyne.

I think what's particularly disheartening, but interesting, about the whole thing is the internet response - inasmuch as you can glean anything from youtube comments and bb posts.

So many white people seem to see this as "Thank god an innocent, harmless white person finally stood up to menacing crazy black people" - as though they perceive themselves as under constant siege from black people. (That in itself I would guess is largely a result of media rather than experience).

It's amazing how this skews perception of the video too. The big, crazy-eyed motherfucker-t-shirt-wearing guy yelling "chinaman" and "Spitshine my shoes" on a public bus is seen as a harmless elderly man. People I've talked to on other boards claim that the black guy actually punched the white guy in the face when that clearly never happened.

The black guy, who strikes me as frustrated but sort of reserved and not that aggressive is seen as some kind of dangerous thug.

When I was arguing with one person about the possibility that maybe the white guy had said something inflammatory or racist to the black guy before the tape started, he responded "Of course not. He would never do that on a bus full of [scary black people]" - when in fact all I can really make out on the tape are a couple of black women, a young white woman and a couple of white guys.

etc.

But regardless the sense of vindication people seem to feel at this video is very troubling.

The black guy does throw the first punch, dude.

That's, like, one of the main reasons people are saying the video is funny; dude took a swing at a crazy old man and got punched repeatedly.

Why can't more people on buses be like the guy who tried to convince me to join the Five Percent Nation? That guy made my day. "They need people like you!"

"The black guy, who strikes me as frustrated but sort of reserved and not that aggressive is seen as some kind of dangerous thug."

WTF video did you watch?!!?

Yeah, but he doesn't hit him in the face, despite what the white guy claims. And it's not even clear if it's a punch or a grab or a shove or what, although obviously it is the first hand-laying regardless.

Also not quite clear in the video -- I think the bloodiness comes mainly from the white guy smashing the black guy's face into the seat, which seems a little overboard.

I'm not saying that the white guy was in the wrong, I just think the video is getting turned into a much simpler narrative than it is.

it was a reserved punch

the thing i get immediately from watching the video is that the old guy is clearly a crazy vietnam vet, not the sort of guy you want to set off

Who sees the burly dude wearing this fall's I AM A MOTHERFUCKER collection as a harmless elderly man?

non-motherfucker throws the first punch, aiming and connecting with the motherfucker's chest. motherfucker then gets up and lands about 10 well-thrown punches on non-motherfucker, at his face, bloodying him, knocking him down.

Once someone takes a swing at you and you decide to fight back, that's no time to start pulling your punches or worrying about 'going overboard' - you fight until the other guy no longer poses a threat.

WTF video did you watch?!!?

I watched the video a lot of times. It's really not clear what's going on in the beginning and it seems a little like the white guy (who seems a bit batshit) might have been starting shit with the black guy first. Again, not clear. But the black guy doesn't come off as the type to just randomly harass some older man on a bus imo.

Once someone takes a swing at you and you decide to fight back, that's no time to start pulling your punches or worrying about 'going overboard' - you fight until the other guy no longer poses a threat.

Yeah I think that's fair.

"But the black guy doesn't come off as the type to just randomly harass some older man on a bus imo."

Except that he does threaten him repeatedly. And follow him to the front of the bus. And strike him. So yeah he is the type.

ah you were disputing punch location; sorry, I thought you were being totally crazypants "dude was attacked for no reason"

white guy = crazy
black guy = too aggro for his own good, didn't know when to stop

result = face bashed in

yeah i mean the motherfucker does at least move up to another area of the bus

is anyone disputing that both guys should have been arrested for assault? how does that work, anyway, if they were both found guilty? would both fines/sentences be the same regardless of who hit who first, who hit who the most, etc?

having witnessed a number of these kinds of altercations on public transit there's really nothing you can do besides shake your head at all the free-floating, misguided aggression out there. people are stupid, what can ya do.

Looks to me like Motherfucker knew he was about to lose it and tried to de-escalate before he started the physical confrontation.

I'll dispute that both should have been arrested. I don't think either should, really, but if anything the first to punch goes to jail.

But I dunno, I've occasionally worked the door at a shady club for a couple of years now and there's a small tussle just about every weekend. I'm probably more at peace with fighting because of it - dudes of all ages and races are stupid and aggro and this kind of shit will always happen.

http://sfcitizen.com/blog/2010/02/17/how-should-the-sfpd-deal-with-somebody-like-epic-beard-man-thomas-bruso-tasers/

http://sfcitizen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/4364045941_acf02a6531_o.jpg

amazing this dude is famous for just being an asshole on the bus

I mean like with a track record and documented history and everything

“Back in 1996, I was working at the intersection of 2nd & Market. Each and every day the man pictured above would walk by my shop, wave a loaf of sourdough in my face, and scream obscenities about the San Francisco 49′ers.”

I'm 100% I've seen this guy btw

100% certain that is

milo, what's your point? that because it happens all the time, that nothing should be done about it?

Once someone takes a swing at you and you decide to fight back, that's no time to start pulling your punches or worrying about 'going overboard' - you fight until the other guy no longer poses a threat.

how can you watch the video and honestly say that motherfucker didn't fight past the point of non-motherfucker not being a threat? by my count i can see motherfucker land exactly 11 punches, those are the ones that we see before the camera starts jostling around anyway, and then when the camerawoman regains focus, motherfucker is kicking (and punching?) the guy while he's restrained on the ground.

Not shocked he's a Raiders fan, tbh.

I think the MF guy was probably more-or-less in the right at the end, I'm just not so quick to think he's a hero in this situation and I think it's pretty o_0 that so many people think of him as one. Calls to mind the end of Taxi Driver in a small way.

xp - I think they should be removed from the bus and treated for injuries, and if either wants to press charges then you can talk about arresting people. But yeah, it happens all the time, and it's not that big of a deal.

As to when you stop, that's a function of adrenaline and regaining your focus. It's much less likely for a drunk guy or a crazy old guy to regain their composure after a punch or two (this is, again, why you shouldn't pick fights with crazy old men. Or drunk guys.) - and I didn't see Motherfucker stop for a minute and then continue beating. He moves to get away when he appears to realize the fight is effectively over.

so I watched it through to the end this time and jesus christ

the girl who filmed this shouldn't have touched that dude's bag

Carles weighs in on most important aspect:
http://altreport.hipsterrunoff.com/2010/02/keut-hipster-girl-watches-white-guy-beat-up-black-guy-on-public-bus.html

xxpost light scuffles at shady clubs every other weekend might not be too big of a deal, but c'mon bloody fistfights on public transportation in the middle of the day? it's totally different.

can't wait for the hipsterpuppies take

Why is it different? Because members of the public saw it in broad daylight?

http://www.ktvu.com/news/22586811/detail.html

apparently the point is that riding the bus in Oakland is akin to going to a shady nightclub every other weekend, according to residents in Oakland

so I watched it through to the end this time and jesus christ

the girl who filmed this shouldn't have touched that dude's bag

― sheryl crow but with a very long butt (HI DERE), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 1:12 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark

she also shouldn't have been encouraging non-mf to kick mf's ass

that wasn't her, that was one of her friends; she was the one saying "it's not worth it, blood"

Assaulting bystanders is obv never acceptable and gets the cops called on you even in shady nightclubs, fwiw

keut hipster girl is ultimately responsible for this whole thing btw, all clearly inciting alpha male violence in an attempt to win her affection

why are nightfights at bars and dayfights on a bus different? because there are about 1,000,000 movies that feature bar brawls and only one movie with a busbrawl - SPEED starring the lady from THE BLIND SIDE ('95)

oops i mean SPEED ('94)

apparently the point is that riding the bus in Oakland is akin to going to a shady nightclub every other weekend, according to residents in Oakland

yep. Oakland is fucked up.

Caveat: I haven't and can't see this at work

As a square-looking middle-aged white guy, I am as sensitive as anybody to the threat of black-on-white aggression in public transport as any white guy out there; I don't even bother taking the bus home from work anymore (preferring the MUNI train) 'cause of all the (mostly) black kids smoking pot at PM, rowdily, noisily (and, frankly, just like me at their age, except for the weed-smoking and threats of violence, many of which are attention-seeking and mere provocation). However, it IS public transport and I'm not so omphaloskeptic nor so 'relativist' as to think that, when it comes down to real danger or real social harm, I wouldn't help a driver, a fellow passenger, or my normative view of behavior in public to intervene; I've helped 'escort' racist or homophobic passangers off the bus, when necessary. There is nothing funny about people (as Kant would put it) treating others as mean, about them making facile judgements about someone else based on the accident of their race as opposed to their behavior.

What particularly saddens me is that, in this bad economy where people are in bad straights, it is increasingly frequent to see class, and racial and gender and orientation conflicts rise to the fore AND to see an increased tendency to resort to violence. People thrying to frighten other people based on their race or people responding thereto in a way that implicates uninvolved people are ignoble swine. I'm mostly fine with a dick getting his come-uppance but I don't find it particularly funny; if you're comforted by righteous violence, okay I get it, but I wish there was more social solidarity and far more violence altogether.

from previous thred:

"I've been beaten up enough times in my life"

I'm not shocked by this revelation, but not sure it's true either.

― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, February 17, 2010 2:27 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

In fairness, one can be beaten up once and that would be "enough times"

I should know better than to look at youtube comments here but I do and it's so depressing and I'm like...seriously. long-term strategies because obviously nothing as ingrained as American racism is gonna get an ABC Afterschool Special-type cure, but is there anything to be done? is the answer just "lots and lots of people are assholes and that's always going to be true" & there's no way to, like, fix it so fewer people grow up racist?

serious q., dumb one too I know, not news that as far as practical shit goes I am a child but this shit has been buggin me since I was very young and I get all despairing abt it.

integrated schools, positive images of people of color in the media, strong social welfare programs

waiting for a fresh start on the moon myself

aren't most youtube commenters 15 year-olds looking to get a rise out of people on the internet? admittedly yeah there are still loads of racist shits out there but it strikes me that youtube is a format that panders towards anonymous show-off idiocy

integrated schools, positive images of people of color in the media, strong social welfare programs

― max, Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:41 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

also a time machine to use to prevent slavery

also a time machine to use to prevent slavery

I can't tell if your other comment is just making fun of classic liberal strategies for this but I mean...the way people are saluting this fuckin beardo dude on the street does make me think "we are fucked" which I guess I already know but sometimes I just can't stand it

is the answer just "lots and lots of people are assholes and that's always going to be true

to an extent, yeah- i think desensitising yrself (and others if possible) to the behaviour of assholes is a big step.

someone tell the democrats this, btw, it would ba a BIG help towards channeling their energies in the right way

See, I don't know if that is the answer. Because desensitizing yourself to assholes means not standing up to them and letting them run rampant with their negative bullshit opinions, which can be pretty dangerous too.

virus with shoes etc. etc.

yeah jon, but it also means not paying attention or letting it change your behaviour, which is more positive and more productive in the long run.

I think I see what you mean, and I do agree. I think I was coming more from a place of being around people who don't even bother to respond to someone that spouts racist bullshit. I don't think shutting up and ignoring them is always the best approach.

I can't tell if your other comment is just making fun of classic liberal strategies for this but I mean...the way people are saluting this fuckin beardo dude on the street does make me think "we are fucked" which I guess I already know but sometimes I just can't stand it

― Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:50 AM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

no i was being 100% serious. i think those three things should be the cornerstone of any attempt to deal with racism in this country.

not shutting up and ignoring them in a passive way, just not concentrating on them full stop. there's times and places to challenge people like that (as individuals and groups) but not constantly, because that's when 'asshole as a spoiler tactic' becomes a success.

Oh exactly, I was referring to people who just kind of shut down and ALWAYS prefer to ignore it and let it go. There are appropriate times where racists assholes should and need to be challenged. But you are correct, there are times where that does more harm than good.

http://www.indiemerchstore.com/drxmclothing/item/7759/

"Be an American hero just like the EPIC BEARD MAN!"

*vomits in mouth a little*

i do like how the racist asshole army has chosen powder blue though

prussian blue