show etiquette

etiquette-wise, I agree that the behavior described is annoying & stupid. Personally, unless the show had designated seating, or I had camped out stage-side from the beginning of the gig to get a prime viewing spot, I would likely just shuffle my placement in the crowd a bit & let someone else deal with them.

That said, I do love the fact that manned up & got stared down at a Girls show.

sarge ilu for graemlin

they was wrong and a reasonable motherfucker would have moved

they was dicks

word-- really this thread was just so i could get on some andy rooney soapbox

since i'm a short dude i kind of get attached to any position where i have a good sightline -- i was kind of on some costanza shit tbh but there's never really the threat of physical harm on seinfeld

http://www.virtualsasha.com/images/Andy_Rooney.jpg
GET ON MY LEVEL

yo is it true dickhead got sonned by a j0rdan after a etiquette beef??????

http://www.soulstrut.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/son.gif

i don't think you were being a dick, but people shouting into each other's ears like that during songs at a regular club show is as common as people lifting up their cell phones to take pictures. It can be annoying, but it's something that so many people do, it might come across to the people you called out, if they go to shows more often, that you're being oversensitive and/or don't get out much.

Moving is generally the best course of action, though it sucks if you have a good spot and the place is packed enough so that it's hard to find another good spot.

j0rdan i don't want to live in a world where it is okay with talking loudly through a show: its so crazy rude, and shows such selfish disregard for anyone in the room who might want to hear the music, that it bums me out big time when it happens.

i also almost got in a fight, at a magnetic fields show, in such circumstances about a decade ago. this guy and two girls were singing through all the 69 Love Songs material, which was kind of annoying but i felt like a grouch for getting vexed, because hey they're just having a good time. but then they started talking loudly during the songs they didn't know, and my then-gf was getting visibly enraged, so i stood up (we were seated, they were stood behind us) and said, hey, do you mind not talking during the songs? i was real polite abt it, btw.

anyways, the guy, who seemed kind of an upper class ponce if his diction and accent were any clue, got all pouty and said, "why don't you fuck off home and listen to the record there?" which upped my vexation levels a thousandfold, and i said that since i'd bought tickets to see the show, why didn't he fuck off home and have his conversation there?

i sat down at this point, and they pretty much shut up, but between songs i could hear him lisping about how he was going to smack me at the end of the show. i don't think i've been in a real fight since i hit double figures, and thought i could probably 'take him' if it came down to it, but still didn't fancy a scrap. the show ended and i stood up, and the guy and his friends abruptly left w/out saying anything, and an old lady came up and thanked me for shutting them up, but it was a lame scene mostly.

i know, wite guy almost sonned at a mag fields show over a loud-talking beef...

^had a similar experience at one of the 69 love songs shows. seemed like a bunch of people were only there to hear the one about bunny rabbits (which they loudly sang along to) and talked incessantly through the rest

Talking during songs is inexcusable, as is bellowing tunelessly along (unless it's that kind of gig, y'know Pogues or suchlike). I don't know if this has got any better or worse in my many years of going to see live bands, but it certainly happens more if an artist is on an upward career curve, or is in some flavour-of-the-month phase just because the shows are full of people who aren't fans as such, or who've been dragged along etc. Bottom line though is that it's incredibly rude both to the performer(s) and other people who have paid to be there.

As noted, yr never going to meet with anything approaching a polite response if any attempt is made to shut them up. Disgusting savages, all of them.

Something else that pisses me off is when people who have been blessed with the genetic gift of tallness choose to stand directly in front of me and/or Mrs A even though we've staked a claim in a good spot early on. I'm only 5'10" so when some fucker who is well over 6 foot barges in my view is ruined. As is my mood.

My enjoyment of a Tindersticks show a couple of years ago was pretty much ruined by one girl who talked loudly throughout the entire show, including the quiet songs. Stuart Staples doesn't normally say much to the audience but on this occasion he was moved at the end to say "it’s been great playing for you… except for that woman down there." But she didn't hear him. She just kept on talking.

genetic gift of tallness

I am five foot nothing and while I don't think this gives me an instant right to be at the front or anything (nor do I particularly want to any more, for most gigs I am at) I am amazed every gig at how people over a foot taller than me will arrive, note my presence, and then stand exactly in front of me. Happens even if the room is almost empty, though at least then they can be sidestepped (until the next lot). If they seem into the band that's one thing, but if they then get bored and chat and twitter all evening, fuck those guys

(sometimes I think indie women are shorter and less assertive than average and indie guys are taller and more oblivious than average, and curse the cruel fate that throws 10 of us and 200 of them into every gig together. this and other women-be-shopping observations are all I have to think about when I keenly arrive at a gig at the advertised door time to find that it doesn't start for 1.5 hours and it's too dark to reread the free month-old listings rag, etc)

Back to the thread topic, those guys were jerks, don't be intimidated by them maybe going to more shows than you, most regular gig-goers I've known wd agree. Though I've never seen anything good come of a confrontation at the time, but I'd like to think they go home and think "I guess we were a bit annoying" and don't do it again. Past experience suggests not though.

(Once the hippest local band included a guy who was somehow able to get guestlisted for everything and would bellow the same injoke repeatedly at every band who came to town. So glad that guy left town.)

you should never be made to feel like you're in the wrong by asking for a little courtesy and consideration.

xpost: I remember an old acquaintance telling us about the time that she and her friends were shushed at a Tindersticks gig.

"It was SO RUDE! How DARE they tell us what to do? We were at the back, so they could have just moved forwards!"

The worst ones are when the chatter reaches critical mass, and everyone gives up and starts doing it themselves. As someone said upthread, this happens most often when the act is at the "flavour of the month" stage. I've witnessed it at Goldfrapp (around the time of "Ooh La La"), at Rodrigo Y Gabriela, and - perhaps more deservedly, because it was a ditchwater-dull show anyway - at Seasick Steve.

a guy who was somehow able to get guestlisted for everything and would bellow the same injoke repeatedly at every band who came to town

"FREEBIRD!"?

Have confronted people about this more times than I care to remember. A bit of chat is fine - it's a night out, after all; and chatting at the bar is fine - it's the bar. But talking all the way through a show when you're standing mid-crowd is unacceptable. I rarely get threatened, though, by virtue of being very tall and not at all skinny. And because by the time I tip over into telling them to be quiet, my rage is beyond containment. As a tall person, agree with those shorter than me who complain about the behaviour of tall latecomers fighting their way into the middle of the crowd regardless of who's behind me. When accompanied by someone short, I have been known to poor beer down the backs of those who come in very late and stand in front without paying any attention. Which makes me as much of an asshole as them.

The situation was best handled at a Kathryn Williams show in a small stand-up venue, circa 2001, where the chatter had reached critical mass by the third song. (The same crowd had already talked right over the support slot from Turin Brakes.) The venue was jam-packed, and KW's self-admitted fear of crowds in enclosed spaces was kicking in. Between songs, a young guy in front of me motioned to KW that he wanted a word, so she asked him up on stage.

"I've got a request. Can everyone who's here to catch up with their mates over a drink please FUCK OFF DOWNSTAIRS so the rest of us can watch the show?"

Sustained applause. Total silence for the rest of the gig.

I am v tall and try to be aware of getting in the way of shorter people, but it's often quite difficult to find anywhere to stand that isn't in someone's way. If I'm at somewhere like the Forum or Shepherd's Bush Empire I'll just stand in front of the mixing desk so there's no-one behind me.

Or I find some other tall bastard and stand behind him cos there's usually space there cos no-one else can see. But that can lead to a huge clump of lanky gits which probably just makes it worse.

But if I am there it is because I am watching the show not talking to people so pls don't hate me.

Lanky gits do tend to clump, 'tis true...

Sorry Colonel, I don't really hate the tall people. 99% of you are fine, just the ones who stand in front - I mean exactly in front like they deliberately lined up elbows, this is what makes it really odd how often it happens - of the smallest person for several metres even when there's plenty of other space, and then don't even seem interested.

I (used to) go to a lot of gigs more or less out of curiosity, so if I'm there just to see what's what and someone who likes the band wants to stand in front of me, no problem there. Though I tend to lurk near the back unless I like what I'm hearing or am really excited to see them. Actually there's often a spot at the very back where the shallower angle lets you see one or two band members between the heads, which is more than we shortarses get from most of the crowd.

I go to tons of shows and it drives me nuts when everyone seems to be talking during the bands, but refreshingly I don't seem to see it super often -- maybe it's the shows I go to (either so small that there's not enough of the audience to out-chatter the band, or so big that the band drowns out anyone who is talking). I'd say what Jordan did was avoidable but I kinda applaud him for doing it, I totally fantasize about doing that kind of thing but never do. closest I got was at a movie once when a guy would not stop talking next to me, and I turned to him like I was going to say something important or friendly and just went 'SHUT THE FUCK UP' and amazingly he did for the rest of the movie, which was such a great moment.

If you are in an assigned seat and can not move, then yeah, tell them to stfu.

If you can move, then move. always easiest first best choice.

I turned to him like I was going to say something important or friendly and just went 'SHUT THE FUCK UP'

heh. I did this too, at a seated GYBE gig. the exact same words, the exact same effect.

I genuinely intended to be polite to the endlessly chattering gimps next to me, but all my pent-up rage just fell out of my face.

The first time Brian Wilson did Pet Sounds in London - the OPENING FUCKING NIGHT, his first involved gig here since before the old queen died and all - there were two fellas a couple of rows bag talking at normal conversational volume throughout. Finally leapt out of my seat and pleaded with them to let the music talk. One of them told me he'd been waiting 40 years for this night and I was not going to ruin it for him by making him be quiet. That he had paid for his ticket and he intended to savour every minute however he chose.
WTF do you say to people like that, who know they're ruining it for others but completely don't give any sort of a fuck?

killing's too good for 'em...

Typical Londoners. You wouldn't get that anywhere else in the UK.

Hard to know how much of an asshole one will be. I loathe bullying, so the staring-down bs just makes me want to goad them into action. The key is for them to swing, and you not be embarrassed to dodge or back off, so that it's obvious to security that those people need to be kicked out, and you get to stay. I've only accomplished that twice in 25 yrs of shows. Usually they'll back off. Another tactic is to push past them and say you figured they wouldn't mind since they don't seem into the show, ha ha. My best experiences are showing up early and staying right up front. If I come late, I hang in the back, since I'm 6'1"+. Also, it's helped that bands I've seen lately are way too loud to even attempt to talk over.

I have heard people complain that they went to a gig where the band was so loud that they couldn't even have a decent conversation...

i prefer talking to people over going to concerts but its pretty lame that these people are paying $15 to talk in a loud bar

Stevie ... they were Glaswegians who'd come down to London for the opening night.

last gig I went to (and I don't get to many these days) featured someone shouting I LOVE THIS SONG! repeatedly throughout about three quarters of the songs. AAAAAAAH.

Ah, right. Good job you didn't try and fight them, then. Although, my name's not Stevie. xp

Sorry anagram. Misread which post I was replying to.

I was not going to ruin it for him by making him be quiet. That he had paid for his ticket and he intended to savour every minute however he chose.

This level of selfish asshattery just boggles my brain. What a frightful human being.

At most other events (theatre, cinema, etc), you'd be able to get an attendant to give them them "you're spoiling it for other patrons" warning, but when faced with that kind of gibbering selfishness I doubt even that would work.

The biggest problem for me is that the talking itself is super distracting, then yr own irritation adds to this, THEN one's indignance and rage takes over with a final result that you're completely removed from the moment of enjoying the music, and it can take an age to get back into that mindset EVEN IF the yapping fuckwit does shut up when asked to. Which they rarely do, ime.

Last year I went to see Neko Case at a seated show, and one girl in the audience was yelling shit loudly at the stage after every song -- nonsense stuff like "Neko, I want to have your baby!" to which Neko rightly responded with, "Uh, I think you're a little confused" -- until Neko finally asked her to please not ruin it for everyone else. Audience girl then called her a bitch, so Neko stopped the show and asked security to remove her, to thunderous applause.

There was a pretty classic discussion about this here several years ago, btw, but no phrases I'm putting into the search engine ("Talking At Live Shows," etc.) are turning anything up. Maybe it was just part of a bigger thread, I'm not sure, but somebody else can find it. Definitely also delved into the phenomenon of tall people standing in front of short people at shows, fwiw.

Tall people look over the heads in a crowd and go "Oh look there's a hole in the crowd, nobody there!"

So they go into the spot, and see it's populated by shorter people.

And then go "oh. Oh well, it's better than over there" and STAY!

The guy in front of you who insists on taking camera phone photos the whole time is just as annoying. I once had to watch an Animal Collective show through the camera of the jerk in front of me because it was packed and I couldn't move.

Also annoying to stand near: the freaky dancer.

Damn hippies.

Dealt with to some extent on this thread (but apparently there was an earlier one that talked about it more, because I mention it here too):

people who doesnt like to go to shows , although they love music, and live in a place where it's available - c/d?

Last year I went to see Neko Case at a seated show, and one girl in the audience was yelling shit loudly at the stage after every song -- nonsense stuff like "Neko, I want to have your baby!" to which Neko rightly responded with, "Uh, I think you're a little confused" -- until Neko finally asked her to please not ruin it for everyone else. Audience girl then called her a bitch, so Neko stopped the show and asked security to remove her, to thunderous applause.

I actually really enjoy between song heckling, especially if it's at all witty. Though maybe this girl was just more obnoxious than anything. But if I could be disappointed in Neko case and her fans, if that were at all possible, I might be after reading this.

I hope I never attend a show with you Master Jim. Between song heckling is almost never "witty".

And even if it is, you have to choose your marks. For one thing, you don't do it after every song. For another, Neko Case?

kinda disagree

"you don't rock" and "play the hit" were two of my favorites

when i go to a lot of shows i start to see a lot of the same people, 'specially if it's a trendy act in a small venue. i have sympathy for the idea of concerts as just an extension of your social life. but you should be nowhere near the front and respectful of listeners and if you're a ligger talking loudly i'm not sure i'd step in to save you if it led to your being beaten viciously.

I'm not saying it can't be witty, but nine times out of ten the heckler thinks he or she is 1,000,000 times more witty than they actually are.

Pretty glad I didn't go to the Girls show at teh Blue Note last night tbh

Though I would have liked to see Smith Westerns

What are you doing?! What are you supposed to be doing?!!!

My old stoner rock group would do a few bars of sweet home Alabama if it was yelled to us a few times on stage.

I would think that if your band was known for playing "Freebird" in full every time it was requested, your shows would be nothing but endless versions of the song, and you'd wind up being the musical equivalent of that Tim Robinson mime performer whose promise to give money to the audience every time he breaks silence guarantees non-stop frat-boy chaos.

― henry s, Saturday, April 13, 2024 2:14 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

you would essentially be Big Mouth Billy Bass: the band

Opposite concept I thought would be funny: saw Tim Kinsella play solo in Chicago when I was there and he started to play his ear-worm "whose afraid of Elizabeth taylor", just the opening guitar line. The audience "wooo"'ed, myself included at which point he said "nah, I don't feel like playing that one any more, you can't get everything you want people".

It was kinda funny, but also, I just wanted the guy to play the hits, nor his boring ass new material!

N-e-ways, I thought it'd be a great bit for aging, pissed off rocked groups to try, ideally multiple times a night

lol feist did that with a broken social scene tune when i saw her.

Ray Davies would do that with "Lola" and maybe some other tunes. He would end up playing them eventually though.

ha I am betting Jonathan Richman has never, ever done this

Freebird is great, by the way. Ironically requesting it at shows is lame.

otm on both counts, also it is fun to play

Each band must gaze deep into the audience's soul to find out if their desire for "Freebird" is ironic or sincere/

Mark Eitzel and Vudi were once booted from a Bark Psychosis show for loudly requesting "Tequila", per an AMC feature in the early 90's, I wanna say Melody Maker or maybe Lime Lizard?

Actually, the best version of this trope would take place at a Lynyrd Skynyrd show. When they come out for their final encore, asking "y'all know what we're gonna play now, dontcha?", the whole audience stares back at them in silent bewilderment.

Each band must gaze deep into the audience's soul to find out if their desire for "Freebird" is ironic or sincere/

― Halfway there but for you, Saturday, April 13, 2024 5:08 PM

i like this. treat it like challenges to review the replay in sports: you only get a few, so use 'em wisely!

Am I imagining it or did Skynyrd preface Freebird in concert by asking “what song is it you wanna hear?”

My parents had a Lynyrd Skynyrd greatest hits CD when I was younger and on the live version of Freebird that closed out the album, they did in fact preface it by asking the crowd "what song is it you wanna hear?"

Freebird rules.

I have always wished there had been a song called “Slow Bird” in the 70’s to complete the cycle:

“Free Bird”…”Free Ride”…”Slow Ride”…

It's kind of dangerous for a bird to fly slow? You could just change the metadata of Neil's track and it'd fit

My parents had a Lynyrd Skynyrd greatest hits CD when I was younger and on the live version of Freebird that closed out the album, they did in fact preface it by asking the crowd "what song is it you wanna hear?"

That's were the tradition started!

Xp there’s always “Danger Bird”

My parents had a Lynyrd Skynyrd greatest hits CD when I was younger and on the live version of Freebird that closed out the album, they did in fact preface it by asking the crowd "what song is it you wanna hear?"

Xp that's what I was saying!

every time someone yells out free bird a band should just immediately do a 20 minute version of marquee moon. the nerd free bird!

but wait back up on this thread what do classical audiences do that makes them the worst? i must know.

every time someone yells out free bird a band should just immediately do a 20 minute version of marquee moon. the nerd free bird!

xpost Security told me that for the outdoor shows, half the audience claims to know somebody high up - the mayor, the head of the orchestra, whatever - and they are all relentless and demanding and obnoxious trying to jockey for better seats. Imagine hundreds of entitled tipsy people saying "do you know who I am?" and then trying to sneak or push past you to get to the front.

The point isn't whether the song Free Bird is a good song, it's that shouting it at shows to be funny is stupid and way beyond expiry

How did this start? Does it go back to the call-and-response on the live album?

yes

Pretty sure Yes has never covered "Freebird," but I bet they would *not* do a good version. Well, actually, I think they could do OK with the first part, in the mode of the first part of "I've Seen All Good People," but not the soloing section (oddly enough).

I dunno. The "jamming" section of "Yours Is No Disgrace" leads me to believe they'd have at least a puncher's chance.

yeah but the accents would be all wrong

If oy stye here tomahrah

looool

at first I thought it was your parents posing the question, and after further thought, I will stick to this interpretation.
― assert (matttkkkk)

for what it's worth my dad would often jump the gun and ask me and my brothers "what song is it you wanna hear?" before the band got around to it

bands should get into it.

someone shouts Freebird.

The band announces "This next song is called Freebird"

Then they play whatever song was next on their set list

rinse and repeat etc

"play it pretty for Atlanta"

Steve Howe could totally do the gnarliest version of the Freebird solo you've ever heard, it's Jon who I don't think could pull it off

I don't think Steve is loose enough for the solo. Not that the "Freebird" solo is not tight as hell, but it's as much about feel as it is about precision.

that's why they don't do it, it would take him 2 months to compose the solo note for note but when it was done I bet it would rule

Starship Trooper is Yes's answer to Freebird, or maybe the other way around.

https://www.concertarchives.org/image_uploads/photo/image/672277/large_Chicago_Tribune_Sun__Aug_8__1976_.jpg

Same planet, different worlds

1976?? 77?

Starship Trooper is Yes's answer to Freebird, or maybe the other way around.

Very similar. The codas of both are guitar solos over three chord patterns: Yes is I - ♭VI - IV and Lynyrd Skynyrd is I - ♭III - IV.

Ooh someone knows some theory!

1976?? 77?

1976! Someone taped the Yes set:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kquodhaWXqQ

They're both in G as well.