The New Cuba Thread

A friend wants to go on holiday to Cuba with me. My friend is a quasi-Marxist, and I wouldn't enjoy the arguments. I feel uncomfortable about going there as a tourist but I also feel hypocritical about feeling uncomfortable. There are lots of other countries whose governments I disapprove of but which I would visit as a tourist, bolstering state coffers. Why do I feel particularly queasy about Cuba?

don't strike any arms deals or appear in the state-run media denouncing capitalism. and depending on what kind of quasi-marxist dude is, i'm not sure he'll have much to harp on you about. it ain't exactly a marveling at the glories of socialism kind of place. just go. chill out, man.

i'm excited to take my girl there for the first time since the cuban government made it 100x easier for chinese citizens to go there.

Yeah, maybe this is the attitude. When are you going? Just to Havana, or beyond?

A visit to Cuba is just what a quasi-Marxist needs to recant his views.

I think there she may go through some entrenchment first, though, before the recanting.

The recent emigré who lives above me, in between bouts of moving to the balcony to scream at her boyfriend over the phone ("That's the last time you squeeze between my legs!" she yells in Spanish), talks to someone or other in Cuba about how much toilet paper she needs to pack and send.

Ahahahha, fabulous detail on both points.

my uncle is a marxist, no quasi about it and lived in Cuba for a few years in the 70s and fucking despised it.

Dr. Morbius went 5-10 years ago iirc.

I am aiming to go, you first jabalajamblunana... I want a full reconaissance. :-P

ho ho, I am going to Cuba over Easter. I will report back.

SS - only fair after your SF orientation... but we must defer to the Dirty Vicar since if I go, it won't be till October.

It would be great if when I come back from Cuba I say "guys, the place seems to be a paradise" and everyone goes "oh well, that's settled then".

Just on the general thing of visiting/not visiting countries because you don't approve of their governments... this is always very subjective. I have been avoiding visiting Italy because of the total cockfarmers they have in government. Maybe it is better to avoid democratic countries with repulsive governments - Italians voted for Berlusconi and Bossi, but no one voted for Los Bros Castro.

reasons to visit/not visit a country-

weather
natural beauty
history/architecture
expense
safety/security
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i agree with the people at the top about stuff

Yeah. I think I'm letting my disappointment at my friend's views get in the way of an interesting trip.

But, if I'm honest, I'm still more attracted by seeing as much of the US as possible than I am by flitting off to Cuba.

ho ho, I am going to Cuba over Easter. I will report back.

― The New Dirty Vicar, Monday, February 8, 2010 11:00 AM (4 months ago)

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/cuban_colada/2010/08/fidel-admits-responsibility-for-persecution-of-gays-in-1960s-calls-it-a-great-injustice.html#ixzz0yDqhDZH4

wau Fidel

too late, fuckwad

Castro said that the revolutionary government's actions represented "a great injustice – a great injustice! – whoever committed it. If we committed it, we committed it. I am trying to limit my responsibility in all that because, of course, personally I don't have that type of prejudice."

And he's still equivocating. Again, screw him.

"I don't have anything personal against gays, but they were counterrevolutionaries, so I had no choice to send them to the camps."

well yes, that is equivocation

Was the Communist Party to blame, the interviewer asks.
"No," Castro responds. "If anyone is responsible, I am. True, at that time I couldn't concern myself with the subject. I was deeply and mainly involved in the October Crisis, the war, the political issues. [...]
"But in the end, if responsibility must be assumed, I assume mine. I'm not going to blame others," Castro says.

this, otoh is not

well okay it kind of is, but it also isn't

I sense an irony lurking in my last post

lol

Shasta! Where's your report?

surely you mean Dirty Vicar?

oh yeah, sorry. Eh, great for a holiday, not sure I would want to live there.

That is true of most countries, though.

When I was there it was the anniversary of the Bay of Pigs thing... lots of stuff on the TV about los mercenarios de los Yanquis. There was also an election campaign on, with pictures and CVs of candidates up on civic buildings.

If you are really fascinated, I have blog stuff about Cuba: http://inuitbikini.blogspot.com/search/label/Cuba

But this is more tourism stuff rather than ill-informed comment about the nature of the Cuban sociopolitical setup.

Did we talk about Villar anywhere?

Is that the dead hunger striker? No, we seem not to have talked about that.

Romney mangled his name last night.

Amen:

Damn it, I'm tired of this. In 1962, I hid under my desk at school for 10 straight days in October while the United States and the Soviet Union decided whether or not to lob nuclear missiles at my young ass. And why? Because a year or so earlier, a bunch of expatriate Cubans and some CIA cowboys launched an invasion of the island. Which prompted Nikita Khrushchev to take the genuinely insane step of installing nuclear missiles in Cuba to forestall any future enterprises of that sort. Which led to my being under my desk, mumbling Hail Mary's at 78 r.p.m.

For going on 60 years now, the foreign policy of my country — and a good bit of its domestic politics as well — has been held hostage by a band of noisy irreconcilables in South Florida. The embargo is a joke to the rest of the world, the Helms-Burton Act a modern farce, ignored by such radical Marxist nations as Canada, Mexico, and Germany. The success of the exile community in Florida is a remarkable story, but, Lord knows, it's not without its darker side. With the inexcusable aid of several U.S. presidents, and according to documents gathered by the National Security Archive at George Washington University, that community has harbored outright terrorists, including the men allegedly behind the 1976 bombing of a Cuban airliner that killed 78 passengers (including the Cuban national fencing team). By way of comparison, many Irish-Americans who conspired to arm the IRA during the Troubles wound up in prison. Here, though, President George H.W. Bush went out of his way to pardon one of the men alleged to have helped arrange the bombing of the airliner. The rules always have been different, because of the investment — covert and otherwise — that the U.S. has made in destabilizing Castro, and the centrality of Florida to just about every presidential election of the past 40 years.

Remember when Donald Rumsfeld dismissed resistance in Iraq a couple years after the invasion as "a bunch of bitter-enders". Cubans in South Florida are the bitter-enders to end all.

51st anniv of the Bay of Pigs, which always makes me think of the JFK-autographed photo on Peter Falk's wall in The In-Laws: "We tried."

No need to remind me: Cuban radio was like a wake this morning.

Best book I've read on the subject.

From the summary on Amazon: "In its wake, the United States appeared inept, reckless, and corrupt."

The tact involved in that choice of verb stands out a mile.

Tariq Ali:

Of course there is one thing Obama could do without fear or favor. Lift the embargo on Cuba and recognize the country. It is in the interests of the US itself to do so, but will he? Will the Clintons who are dreaming of a return to the White House let him? Nixon in Beijing. Obama in Havana. Might make a good opera and help posterity forget the drones and assassinations. Just a thought.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11/07/the-triumph-of-conservatism/

my Cuban relatives already think he's a Commie, so why not? Besides, they're dying.

so the NYT has run 3 pro-embargo-ending editorials the last 3 Sundays. And nothing's going to happen til Fidel kicks, is it?

1994 refugees today (photos)

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2014/11/20-years-after-the-1994-cuban-raft-exodus/100852/

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/12/17/371398638/cuba-frees-american-contractor-alan-gross?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=news

I know nothing of Cuba besides the Bay of Pigs/Missile Crisis. What's some good reading on Cuban history and the Cuban exile community in America.

Second sentence should end with a "?".

My mom just got back from a week in Cuba yesterday, and was telling me all about the Gross/Cuban 5 stuff. I'd like to credit her personally with this dramatic turn of events.

Didion's Miami is a good and undated overview. So is Marvin Dunn's history of black South Florida. One of the heartbreaking ironies of history is how white Cubans snatched the middle class jobs from blacks just as the Civil Rights Act passed.

from Guardian story:

But the ongoing imprisonment of Alan Gross was the very least of the many domestic political impediments in the way of any wider deal over trade, travel and diplomatic restrictions that have kept relations between the two countries in a Cold War deep freeze for decades.

It is is telling that the carefully orchestrated exchange of prisoners – something that must have taken months to negotiate – took place hours after US senators left Washington to go home for Christmas. It is also unthinkable that the Democratic White House would have risked such a move before November’s midterm elections, when hawks in both parties were already criticising him for similar concessions in Iran.

But the decision to attempt a complete Cuban “re-set” - to use the administration’s favoured phrase – is very much in keeping with Obama’s post-election radicalism.

It is a gamble that could backfire if relaxing the embargo does not create the desired internal pressure for reform inside Cuba, but Obama is not the only one who suspects that the existing, and very tired, US posture toward its near neighbour has long since proved past its sell-by date.

Obama’s post-election radicalism

man that word is just completely trashed in the UK eh

For American travelers to Cuba, this is an important detail buried in the Obama announcement: $100 worth of cigars and rum will be allowed.

With reference to the previous "sonic attacks" (quotes for my personal scepticism)... some scientific research with a sense of humour: https://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/devices/finally-a-likely-explanation-for-the-sonic-weapon-used-at-the-us-embassy-in-cuba

have there been any other strange historical examples of sonic interference injuring or damaging dozens of people?

I know several high schoolers in the eighties who attended a Bon Jovi concert.

I've been to a few Sunn O))) gigs that could easily qualify as well.

"The Cuban national assembly meets this Wednesday to elect the next president, and Raúl Castro is widely expected to be replaced by the current vice-president Miguel Díaz-Canel."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/18/raul-castro-cuba-step-down-leader-miguel-diaz-canel

― brain (krakow), Wednesday, April 18, 2018 3:32 AM

"Finding the path to modernizing Cuba's economy will now fall squarely on the shoulders of Miguel Diaz-Canel, Castro's successor as president who is expected to take over as head of the communist party."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/15/americas/cuba-raul-castro-communist-leader-intl-latam/index.html

Fidel was right though x pic.twitter.com/k5PPWnLycv

— marcus 🇧🇧 (@marcusjdl) May 15, 2022

A thread on the Families Code and referendum in Cuba. This is a comprehensive piece of legislation, widely described as being one of the most progressive in the world.

— 🇯🇲 Co-operative Textile Mill ☭ (@SiggonKristov) September 26, 2022

In Cuba during hurricanes, neighborhood committees go door-to-door and make sure that everyone is safely evacuated with their belongings.

In St. Pete, the police drive around warning poor people on loud speakers that there will be no help for them. #HurricanIan https://t.co/jlL0hMh1qu

— Karla Correa (@comradekarla) September 28, 2022

This absolute queen gets freed in a month pic.twitter.com/FP6Y0Z9USS

— cabral (@comradeaux) December 5, 2022