Yo P&J, I'm really happy for you, Imma let you finish, but ILX had the greatest 2009 poll of all time! All time! (2009 ILX Trax Poll Results: TOP TEN TODAY)

your first point is correct but idk how you can listen to something like "coffee shop" and think -- well obviously there is something more going on here, I WONDER WHAT IT IS -- whether you actually investigate the metaphor (or go, well obviously this is likely about selling drugs) is up to you, but there is no way one could go "HMMM WOW A RAP SONG ABOUT AN INDEPENDENT COFFEE HOUSE. SUCK ON THIS STARBUCKS!" or "HMMM A RAP SONG ABOUT LUNCH MEAT!"

and not think**

I'm a t-r-a-p-s-t-ar
Got the shop on lock, big potatoes in the sale section
And she likes it (she likes it, she likes it)
And she likes it
I'm a t-r-a-p-s-t-ar
Keep meat in the chilled section, incl. goose from afar
And she likes it (she likes it, chyeah, ayy ayy)
And she likes it (She likes it, she likes it)

jesus christ, you guys seriously think you are obliged to appreciate trap music in the context of slinging dope and that it's unrealistic to enjoy them out of context? i hate to remind you but it's DAMAGED BEHAVIOR to sell (rightly or wrongly) illicit substances, profit on the back of the poor/addicted/hopeless and engage in casual violence. You want to sell me a song that discusses the underlying causes or puts your life or the life of people in your community in stark relief? That's cool. You want me to revel in the fucked up shit that you're engaging in and chant along as if it's part of my worldview or something that I feel is sensible or laudable? Not so much. So if I can appreciate the music/lyricism/skill involved in, say, a ten crack commandments, I think i can do that without feeling the need to be REAL and HARD about just how i'm appreciating it and not get guilty about it.

Yung Joc - Coffee Shop (Jake One's Seattle's Best Coffee remix)

no i'm just saying that you're being a willfully ignorant retard to go around pretending like yung joc is rapping about coffee

Umm I don't think any of us where trying to make you pro-crack rock industries.

OH MAN I LOVE HOW DISTRICT 9 DEALS ONLY WITH HOW THESE ALIENS ARE SEQUESTERED ON EARTH AND JUST LEAVES IT AT THAT. WHAT A FILM THAT YOU CAN TAKE AT FACE VALUE. NOW HOW WANTS A HAM SANDWICH?

also, bear in mind that the language, dialect and diction of a lot of popular (and unpopular rap) is such that a dilettante is going to have a hard time deciphering it without some hand holding. The reason she though coffee shop was about, well, a coffee shop was that Joc is mumbly and the chorus is easy to understand and that's where the high pitched voice is talking about taking orders, steaming it up, dealing with repeat customers, etc. If you're not part of that world (which i really do hope no one here is, except in the most glancing way) and you haven't got a clear idea of the context, what ELSE would you think it's about?

well, your girl is your girl, if she doesn't fuck with rap than it's just a fun novelty song, whatever -- but anyone who's been paying attention to rap since like... 2003 should not be able to take that at face value at all

sometimes you can admire the craft istead of being a moralizing, overthinking goof, too.

anyway i dont think that was anyone's point? the point was (and i'd probably agree) is that it's hard to believe someone is really immersed in rap if he or she just bothered to figure out what "trap" meant the other day

xp dorksclovetofu

I always got confused how people would need to write articles about the slang in The Wire. If the kids slinging are referred to some way, and they watched episodes seeing them referred to that way- how the fuck could they not work it out for themselves without some pompose cunt going "You may 'Yo' as a greeting, like 'Hello' but in Baltimore, a 'Yo' is actually..."

you may *know* 'yo' etc.

deciphering the phrase "trap goin ham" and what "pies" might mean is a bit more... advanced i guess

Jordan: i was being tongue in cheek, but sometimes it's necessary to find a thruline that people can walk to appreciate music and find ways around things that they would otherwise find repugnant and horrible. i'm kinda clear on what coffeeshop is about. but when trying to get friends into the song, i'm not leading with IT'S ABOUT DRUGS ISN'T IT AWESOME
also, if you like district 9 as an action movie alone without the political allegory i don't see why that's not a reasonable way to enjoy it. if you choose to come back to it for more depth/meaning and that bolsters your enjoyment/understanding, good for you, but I think it's okay to take things on face value and not have your own enjoyment belittled simply because you're dealing with things on the surface and that's enough.

ftr my initial statements about TGH were a goof, a riff on something Dr. C wrote about flying pies. I was never under the impression that it was actually about selling food (tho that would be awesome).

Forks OTM. When it comes to the kaleidoscopic world of rap slang, I often prefer to guess at the meaning of a thing, or otherwise allow for unintentional (& often absurd) connotations. If the lyrics of a particular song or artist are of especial interest, I will investigate further. Beyond that, not really caring about what "trap" means has not in any way hindered my enjoyment of the genre.

my girl DOES fuck with rap; she helped produce the Outkast 'driven'!
kevin: i only "overthink" when it feels appropriate. y'all think this stuff is simple but it's hella opaque unless you spend A LOT OF TIME listening to the music. goons (mainstream/backpack/niche/otherwise) get to being bullies about their music these days a lot faster than hipster indies or crusto rock nerds, seems to me.

NO ONE SAID IT WAS BAD TO TAKE ART AT FACE VALUE

the point, again, is that if that's the way you listen to rap music, you shoould have heard hundreds of songs that reference "trap" and maybe once you've stopped to think why these people are rapping about trapping their food like fucking hunters and gatherers or whatever

xxp

i just don't see how one could watch something like "trap goin ham" or "district 9" and not consider what the song/movie is trying to get across and trying to think about/investigate what those things are. it just seems like an intellectual dishonesty of sorts to me.

& not that you can't enjoy something at face value -- or that understanding all the coke references in "trap goin ham" will make you like it more -- but i think it's willful ignorance to take some of these things at face value. that doesn't mean that you have to get into some undergraduate film study style analysis of it, but c'mon.

fwiw, obviously i _do_ think it's worth taking the time to engage with hip hop; but everybody gotta start somewhere
and the "moralizing" stuff is there solely to suggest why an open minded person of taste might knowingly shy away from working hard to get too acquainted with the underlying meaning of the music; who wants to find out that some griot is actually singing about pro-genocidal tendencies or that the musette is seriously racist

Before I officially looked it up, I had assumed "trap" was a reference to one's domicile, or perhaps neighborhood, esp. as those things pertain to a certain subset of illicit activity. It turns out it basically means "crackhouse." Mind = blown.

to your points on repetition and exposure, I seriously think it's a case of people finding the words difficult to decipher! I know lots of people (white, btw) who would describe themselves as rap fans who can't determine wtf even a relatively clearly articulate rapper like TI is saying. I think for a lot of people the exact lyrics are vastly secondary to beat and flow and, while that's not how I enjoy listening to music, I think it's overly protective to act like that's not a "real" way to appreciate a song.

for better or worse, pillbox's response of "mind=blown" has been the majority one I get with non-hardcore fans. Even (maybe even especially!) among people who work music industry. you goons have a unique and great way of appreciating the genre, but it is absolutely not the way most people do.

This is like that episode of beauty and the geek when the girl asked one of them about how much booty they had got and they were all like 'wtf i've never found pirate treasure, what are you on about crazy girl'

btw thx for the pill linx, forks.

"booty" = slang that originated in the 1920's, long since culturally ubiquitous
"going ham" = slang that originated in the 2000's, not generally well known

i'm just looking to make converts. i know i'm corny. but i like the music!

^one for posts v. much in character btw

the thing about food metaphors in rap songs is that they're mostly pretty boneheaded and suface-level anyway, so people treating them like a secret handshake to some profound inner meaning to the song need to chill the fuck out

i mean it's not really the same thing as knowing how apartheid informed District 9 tbh

so people treating them like a secret handshake to some profound inner meaning to the song need to chill the fuck out

― alf shumway (some dude), Sunday, January 31, 2010 4:16 PM (2 minutes ago)

tbf this was more a mischaracterization of what we (or at least i) were saying than the actual argument

"HMMM WOW A RAP SONG ABOUT AN INDEPENDENT COFFEE HOUSE. SUCK ON THIS STARBUCKS!" or "HMMM A RAP SONG ABOUT LUNCH MEAT!"

how is that new paul barman album anyway?

i mean part of the charm of "coffee shop" is obviously how everyone including yung joc can pretend it's about a coffee shop, right, though granted the humour here is dependent on knowing that it's not

i guess, it's kinda hard to tell what's going on after the ridiculous dogpile

yeah it's just...that's why good slang is good slang!

there is charm in "coffee shop"?

it sounds like a nursery rhyme, you'd think charm is at least part of what they're going for

i think it is a nursery rhyme

right but i mean they fail obv

terius wrote that hook i'm pretty sure

would explain a lot!

i.e. catchiness

http://charm.urbanup.com/4137706
http://slang.urbanup.com/962557

trying to imagine how a neophyte would make any sense out of the food oriented imagery in hip hop
http://tbohiphop.net/upload/files/18/pics/GucciMane.jpg
To say nothing of the arm and hammer pendant.

ah, here it is
http://www.radricdavis.com/images/gucci-mane-chains.jpg

the better drug reference chain is his egg beater one

sorry for joining this stupid dogpile, but can I just draw a distinction between a casual rap fan like pillbox not getting it (perfectly ok) and a rap thread regular like forks not getting it (kinda willful)

Suprisingly, cooking up stovetop crack looks a lot like cooking stovetop oatmeal to my eyes (at least judging from the Trap Goin' Ham vid). Never cooked up crack myself so I can't say how closely the vid hews to the reality of actually cooking up some crack.

ha, ok, i never got the egg beater chain link! i just thought it was a lol gucci is awesome chain idea.