Yo P&J, I'm really happy for you, Imma let you finish, but ILX had the greatest 2009 poll of all time! All time! (2009 ILX Trax Poll Results: TOP TEN TODAY)

(shots of alicia keys singing at the piano with a big ol' grin interspersed with happy crowds at broadway shows, the statue of liberty, ice skating at rockefeller center, soho shoppers, the met, lincoln center, horse carriages in central park...)

(and then at the end zoom in on mike bloomberg on top of the empire state building with a crowd of tourists, as he says, "if you can make it here, we can take you anywhere." and ... cut.)

wow so sorry i missed the girls argument (i was waiting until i had a free 45 minutes to go through all the youtubes). but i do want to say a couple quick things. my main issue with the band is that he's going for a specific pre-1980 classicism and doing it in a v. deliberate and extremely affected way that i personally find results in an absolutely loathsome aesthetic. keep in mind, i am the guy who basically listens to no 1960s american music other than soul and "forever changes" and say what you want about gapdy but they pretty deftly avoid the reference points girls aims for (well maybe anco is onto some 60s psych shit but hey i don't really like them either).

i also think he's an awful and affected singer and found thomas mars' hyperactive broken english nonsense far more interesting and engaging than listening to the girls guy whine (in the most literal dictionary definition of the term) about chicks.

ESOM is a rap song for people with no interest in rap music, which goes for the whole album. i guess this way of thinking is just the flip of busting j0rdan for liking girls but no other roots rock (or whatever genre that is), but oh well.

speaking of 90s-ness, "So Good" totally sounds like CrazySexyCool-era TLC

eh it draws on it, but i don't think you could say it would fit right in

ESOM is a rap song for people with no interest in rap music, which goes for the whole album

This is OTM but dog latin has already provided a defense which is also OTM

xp I think you took that more literally than I intended

I'm ready for the next track now, musically, when you're ready! Listened to my download comp about three times now. I love nearly everything here (bit lost on Taylor Swift, and Lady Gaga just ain't for me, but everything else is at least interesting). Other than Animal Collective (please stop calling them "AnCo") I knew very little on this list up until now. I have the Fever Ray album, but didn't find it as immediate as The Knife and kept putting off listening to it properly. I'd heard the Kid Cudi track on the radio but didn't know what it was. It's a great list though.

think you might have to wait til Monday!

fyi musically'll resume the countdown tomorrow, probably sometime in the morning on the west coast
xp

musically, i'm kind of ready for a sandiwch too. when you're ready.

Yo P&J, I'm really hungry for you, Imma make u sammich

lol jordan

never been sure abt the x for ppl who don't like x as a line of argument

I'll rep for ESOM, but I am admittedly a sucker for big-budget, sorta Disnified rap spectacles (see also: Lose Yourself, Hypnotize, etc). And yeah, that chorus (Alicia owns this. All due respect to MJ Blige, but she could not have sold this in the same way).

that mag EOY list with one rap album to thread xp

ESOM is a rap song for people with no interest in rap music

I am also interested in rap music, btw.

xxp: not sure why "Hypnotize" falls into that category, other than the video maybe. It doesn't have the overblown, histrionic qualities that ESOM or "Lose Yourself" have. In any case, "Hypnotize" and "Lose Yourself" are much better songs.

i'm so incredibly bad at working out why certain songs cross over beyond their genre to other audiences like this, i'm always like...but this song and that song also had huge choruses and sympathetic narrators, why not them?! i don't even hate ESOM but it just feels so hokey and ho-hum that i have no idea how anyone could love it.

xps - yeah pillbox i get that argument but alicia has another song with a big-budget gargantuan chorus out now which is AMAZING and yet has failed to get similar traction to ESOM!

pillbox no offence but weren't you the dude who thought "trap goin' ham" was about dinner

I thought the Electrick Red track was okay (disclaimer, as mentioned before I'm not a true R'n'B stan, so may not be sure what I'm looking out for here), but it did kind of wash over me. I liked the record-slowing-down effect that takes place at the end of the first verse, but other than that it feels very much by the numbers. What I particularly like about R'n'b girl groups are the harmonies and interplay, but there doesn't seem to be a great deal happening here vocally, other than the surprisingly sweary lyrics. Compared to the vocal gymnastics of (and I know this is an ancient example) En Vogue's "Never Gonna Get It", this is pretty one note. There's neither the exuberance of most Destiny's Child tracks. So I'm not sold yet. I will try the rest of the album when I have a mo though.

pillbox no offence but weren't you the dude who thought "trap goin' ham" was about dinner

― zvookster, Sunday, 31 January 2010 19:36 (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol pusha t isn't actually baking carrotcake or shortbread in grindin fyi pillbox

pillbox no offence but weren't you the dude who thought "trap goin' ham" was about dinner - lol! I fantasized for a second that the song could be taken literally as a celebration of running a popular neighborhood grocery, but obv. I knew there were seedier elements at play. I'm no stranger to dirty south coke rap, but I don't really keep up on vernacular trends, so only recently learned the *real* meaning of "trap", "ham," "pie" & "yam." I love this track by the way. It certainly would have made the upper end of my list, had it been on my radar earlier.

I'd recommend reading the rolling fruity ring goon occasionally then.

Alicia Keys appeals to a slightly different bunch than Jay-Z etc. But combined they hit the hip-hop bros and the soul-singer girls together.

not sure why "Hypnotize" falls into that category, other than the video maybe. - yeah I might be conflating production values b/w song & video in this case. Either way, it was a case of rap song as "event," even if its status as such blurs my memory of the actual song a bit.

just saying being interested in rap in the oh nine and not knowing what the trap is are kinda incompatible

wouldn't say it's 100% coincidence that these are food terms btw, and if you are looking for social comment beyond reportage in the track that might be where to find it. dude came up with killer mike and is a clever motherfucker.

OK then I guess I'm not interested in rap. you win.

I think the different appeal of Jay-Z and Alicia does bring more people to ESoM. at this point I feel immune to Jay-Z's shtick and prefer the version on Alicia's album that cuts him out completely... great anthemic sound, with more personality than she usually reveals

i honestly don't see why you can't enjoy rap and not be familiar with the vernacular or the slang; do you need to know Italian to enjoy Tosca? Hell, in some cases it might be easier to like a song if you approach it with naivete; my girl misunderstood 'Coffee Shop' as a young entrepreneur opening a cafe and i've willfully heard it that way since.

get the fuck out of here w/ that one forks

from otm to smh in record time

any case pillbox, pill is worth more than a cursory listen; I like 'glass' a lot as well. His first two mix albums (no "official" release as of yet) is available for free download online.
http://pill4180.com/?cat=9

your first point is correct but idk how you can listen to something like "coffee shop" and think -- well obviously there is something more going on here, I WONDER WHAT IT IS -- whether you actually investigate the metaphor (or go, well obviously this is likely about selling drugs) is up to you, but there is no way one could go "HMMM WOW A RAP SONG ABOUT AN INDEPENDENT COFFEE HOUSE. SUCK ON THIS STARBUCKS!" or "HMMM A RAP SONG ABOUT LUNCH MEAT!"

and not think**

I'm a t-r-a-p-s-t-ar
Got the shop on lock, big potatoes in the sale section
And she likes it (she likes it, she likes it)
And she likes it
I'm a t-r-a-p-s-t-ar
Keep meat in the chilled section, incl. goose from afar
And she likes it (she likes it, chyeah, ayy ayy)
And she likes it (She likes it, she likes it)

jesus christ, you guys seriously think you are obliged to appreciate trap music in the context of slinging dope and that it's unrealistic to enjoy them out of context? i hate to remind you but it's DAMAGED BEHAVIOR to sell (rightly or wrongly) illicit substances, profit on the back of the poor/addicted/hopeless and engage in casual violence. You want to sell me a song that discusses the underlying causes or puts your life or the life of people in your community in stark relief? That's cool. You want me to revel in the fucked up shit that you're engaging in and chant along as if it's part of my worldview or something that I feel is sensible or laudable? Not so much. So if I can appreciate the music/lyricism/skill involved in, say, a ten crack commandments, I think i can do that without feeling the need to be REAL and HARD about just how i'm appreciating it and not get guilty about it.

Yung Joc - Coffee Shop (Jake One's Seattle's Best Coffee remix)

no i'm just saying that you're being a willfully ignorant retard to go around pretending like yung joc is rapping about coffee

Umm I don't think any of us where trying to make you pro-crack rock industries.

OH MAN I LOVE HOW DISTRICT 9 DEALS ONLY WITH HOW THESE ALIENS ARE SEQUESTERED ON EARTH AND JUST LEAVES IT AT THAT. WHAT A FILM THAT YOU CAN TAKE AT FACE VALUE. NOW HOW WANTS A HAM SANDWICH?

also, bear in mind that the language, dialect and diction of a lot of popular (and unpopular rap) is such that a dilettante is going to have a hard time deciphering it without some hand holding. The reason she though coffee shop was about, well, a coffee shop was that Joc is mumbly and the chorus is easy to understand and that's where the high pitched voice is talking about taking orders, steaming it up, dealing with repeat customers, etc. If you're not part of that world (which i really do hope no one here is, except in the most glancing way) and you haven't got a clear idea of the context, what ELSE would you think it's about?

well, your girl is your girl, if she doesn't fuck with rap than it's just a fun novelty song, whatever -- but anyone who's been paying attention to rap since like... 2003 should not be able to take that at face value at all

sometimes you can admire the craft istead of being a moralizing, overthinking goof, too.

anyway i dont think that was anyone's point? the point was (and i'd probably agree) is that it's hard to believe someone is really immersed in rap if he or she just bothered to figure out what "trap" meant the other day

xp dorksclovetofu

I always got confused how people would need to write articles about the slang in The Wire. If the kids slinging are referred to some way, and they watched episodes seeing them referred to that way- how the fuck could they not work it out for themselves without some pompose cunt going "You may 'Yo' as a greeting, like 'Hello' but in Baltimore, a 'Yo' is actually..."

you may *know* 'yo' etc.

deciphering the phrase "trap goin ham" and what "pies" might mean is a bit more... advanced i guess

Jordan: i was being tongue in cheek, but sometimes it's necessary to find a thruline that people can walk to appreciate music and find ways around things that they would otherwise find repugnant and horrible. i'm kinda clear on what coffeeshop is about. but when trying to get friends into the song, i'm not leading with IT'S ABOUT DRUGS ISN'T IT AWESOME
also, if you like district 9 as an action movie alone without the political allegory i don't see why that's not a reasonable way to enjoy it. if you choose to come back to it for more depth/meaning and that bolsters your enjoyment/understanding, good for you, but I think it's okay to take things on face value and not have your own enjoyment belittled simply because you're dealing with things on the surface and that's enough.

ftr my initial statements about TGH were a goof, a riff on something Dr. C wrote about flying pies. I was never under the impression that it was actually about selling food (tho that would be awesome).

Forks OTM. When it comes to the kaleidoscopic world of rap slang, I often prefer to guess at the meaning of a thing, or otherwise allow for unintentional (& often absurd) connotations. If the lyrics of a particular song or artist are of especial interest, I will investigate further. Beyond that, not really caring about what "trap" means has not in any way hindered my enjoyment of the genre.