Yo P&J, I'm really happy for you, Imma let you finish, but ILX had the greatest 2009 poll of all time! All time! (2009 ILX Trax Poll Results: TOP TEN TODAY)

That distinction is left up to taste, but even the most tonedeaf music fan could tell the difference between them.

(also, Rev is right.)

well i should clarify

certainly there are a large number of differences once you get into the girls album trax and other singles, but "lust for life" is pretty much a phoenix song if they were born in california instead of france

both are peppy guitar rock with mopey sentiments -- & the girls dude is a way better singer anyway

i mean, "1901" vs "lust for life" -- these don't appeal to the same listeners? and they don't appeal to the same preferences in those listeners? i think they do

Yeah, I guess the "G" in GAPDY could just as easily stand for Girls. :)

They might very well appeal to the same listeners, but I'd still argue that Phoenix has a very unique and identifiable sound in the context of the present "modern rock" landscape. Girls, on the other hand, distill the sound of a thousand lo-fi garage bands/labels down into something that just happens to have caught on because it came at the right moment with the right PR push. I understand that people might like the Girls album/singles on their own merits, but I also think people who like it probably aren't digging very deep.

well, in the context of modern rock, both are identifiable & unique. it's not like phoenix isn't distilling lessons taught by "12:51"

i love both bands -- i was just surprised that there was such a visceral negative reaction to them considering that, for instance, yyys + phx + dirty projectors are all loved to well liked on ilx, and pazz and jop 09 has taught us that those three bands certainly share a fanbase with girls. now, they do with grizzly bear as well, and that band is pretty much despised on ilm, so i'm not saying that GAPDY + girls are a total package deal, just that i expected reactions to "lust for life" to be more towards the phx end of the spectrum than the GB end of the spectrum

How much garage rock/drug jamz do you listen to, Jordan?

eh

Because it's kind of like someone saying they love rap, and saying that Tone Loc is their favorite artist.

"appeal to the same listeners" is a pretty poor justification for saying 2 songs sound the same (and arguable, too -- out of the 81 P&J votes for "1901" and 42 for "Lust For Life" there's only 4 people who voted for both). anyway i think modern rock is a broad enough tent that we don't have to equate super-glossy radio-ready rock and smudgy amateurish lo-fi with nails-on-chalkboard singing.

white music all sounds the same

girls are far from my favorite rock band xp

so, production is the major hang up here? it's hard for me to fathom that the girls singer is a markedly worse vocalist than the one from phx

For me, it's not the production. I listen to tons of lo-fi rock music. It's the weak songwriting and the willingness of people to praise it because they haven't heard anything better (of which there is plenty).

xp: the girls singer is a markedly worse vocalist than the one from phx

it's all the performance, particularly the voice, dude. i have zero problem w/ lo-fi as a production aesthetic in and of itself.

(also only 9 common albums voters, out of a slightly larger pool)

xpost

now, they do with grizzly bear as well, and that band is pretty much despised on ilm

would take the grizz over girls any day of the weaksauce

well, i'm not gonna belabor the point, i was just surprised by ppl acting as if some horrible crime had been committed upon the poll and that all voters be brought to the stake (not butthurto, promise)

damn really??

Does anyone agree, partly at least, with my Girls fame analysis thing?

In Grizzly Bear's favor: "Two Weeks" is a pretty great single. I tend to lose interest in the albums after just a short while, though, but yeah... would take them over Girls at any time.

Girls rips off Mote by SY, writes terribly bland lyrics (that you have to pay attention to because-), the music is really bland, and they're selling it because they have this perfect accessible-to-hipster-masses formula. The songs are derivative of obvious hip indie forefathers (one mentioned already), the songs are simple/basic pop which isn't hard to get over for many shallow trend followers (disclaimer: I'm not saying any specific fans of them here are that generalization, just trying to break down why they've blown up), and the guy is angsty and misunderstood (hipster: So am I!), has the heartbreaking indie-film-ready backstory (Bon Iver blew up with much help from his backstory), and the guy's voice is just alienating enough so hipsters can keep the band to themselves without worrying about the inviting pop songs attracting a casual crowd (Vampire Weekend's problem perhaps?).

― Evan, Friday, January 29, 2010 9:39 PM (1 hour ago)

I agree with pretty much every single point you make.

Thank you! Satisfied now.

Theres a formula to Girls that seems comparable to what made Juno (the movie, not the band) so blatantly forced.

even if you hate the Girls' singer's voice, i think it at least objectively makes the band stand out in spite of the obviously derivative aesthetic. and also, i hope that saying "the girls singer is worse than the phoenix singer" doesn't imply that the phoenix singer isn't balls-out terrible, b/c really, that guy cannot sing

That's a pretty good comparison (tho I fell for Juno nonetheless). xp

that's a super-assumptive & pejorative characterization of them & why they are popular

damn really??

― Goon's Anatomy (J0rdan S.), Friday, January 29, 2010 7:57 PM Bookmark

tbf, I've only heard two g-bear songs "Knife", which I can't stand in the slightest, and "Two Weeks", which doesn't do anything for me, but is fine all the same. I was thinking of the latter and not of the former when I said that.

i miscounted, actually 15 common album voters between Girls and Phoenix according to Glenn: https://pub.needlebase.com/actions/visualizer/V2Visualizer.do?domain=Pazz-Jop-2009&query=Top-10+Voter+Overlap

that chart pretty well illustrates my point, tough, even Raekwon has more overlap w/ Phoenix than Girls

tough=though

I can't believe I'm engaging in a debate now about an album I haven't been troubled enough by to be vocal about in all of the last year. It's not that Girls are terrible, it's that they're just nothing.

evan: i'm disappointed that no one called out your mote ref as worse than my thermals guitar one :( also these days i tend to just read use of "hipster" as "myself distancing myself from myself to appear more authentic", which works pretty well most of the time, otherwise it's usually meaningless to me. i think the rest of the stuff could probably code as poignant if you actually like the music.

I can't believe I'm engaging in a debate now about a band I haven't been troubled enough to hear until a quick YouTube play for LOLs a couple hours ago. Nevermind, yes I can.

I guess I'm cynical now. Conan would be so disappointed in me. :(

What a disaster for Johnny Fever.

it was worth it for the initial run of reactions

really don't understand why Girls and Phoenix are being compared and contrasted.

anyway, glad Rockin' that Shit placed, but I hope the voter split doesn't mean that's the last of The-Dream here. I considered voting for Rockin tactically as it was the single (and I do prefer the idea of voting for only singles and not album tracks), but wound up going for Right Side of My Brain just because it's miles more mindblowingly amazing. Also want to distance myself from Grizzbear.

Voted Love Story in much the same way, but it was a total 2009 track for me so I didn't feel as conflicted.

people went WTF at Girls, Jordan said hey Phoenix will be all over the poll too what's the big diff, people went um there's a pretty huge diff

grouping together girls & phoenix is no different than grouping together every band that makes up GAPDY, which we even created a nice acronym for

GAPDY just means consensus praise, but there's not much stylistic homogeny among them.

out of the loop on GAPDY

girls are in that same conversation

GAPDY poll

i think it's funny there's so much objection to the girls guy's voice, because by the standards of white indie guy singing -- which is pretty much my least favorite current vocal genre -- i sort of don't mind his. but i guess it really comes down to, i like nasally voices. when dylan and petty are two of my favorite rock singers, i'm not gonna complain too much about a dude singing through his nose.

zvookster: You really don't think that one Girls track sounds like Mote?

I know, Jordan, I'm just saying that as homogenous as the fanbases for all these bands are, you picked the 2 that, based on the chart I linked, have virtually the least fan overlap possible (and are, imo, on opposite ends of that admittedly not terribly wide aesthetic spectrum).

Morning Light is the song.

I know, Jordan, I'm just saying that as homogenous as the fanbases for all these bands are, you picked the 2 that, based on the chart I linked, have virtually the least fan overlap possible (and are, imo, on opposite ends of that admittedly not terribly wide aesthetic spectrum).

― as genuine a white mainstream talent as you are going to get (some dude), Friday, January 29, 2010 10:35 PM (29 seconds ago) Bookmark

right, okay

which is to say that if you said Animal Collective instead of Phoenix way upthread there wouldn't be any of this quibbling (xpost)