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OMG I WANT THIS AMAZING RONALDINHO BOTTLE OPENER

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maybe you shouldnt brag about your ignorance

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:33 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.vortrupp.de/humor/pics/bullshit.jpg

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:34 (seventeen years ago) link

oh wait AFFECTIONATE!! i know if i was a black 'footballer' i would cherish the paternalistic horse-racing style affection of white british 'football' fans

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:34 (seventeen years ago) link

It's not ignorance, Ethan, it's an entirely different mindset.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:34 (seventeen years ago) link

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE'S A RACIST "MOTIVE" THERE IS A GIGANTIC BODY OF RACIST ICONOGRAPHY THAT THAT BOTTLE OPENER FITS PERFECTLY INTO JESUS CHRIST I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS

horseshoe on Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:15 PM (18 minutes ago)

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE'S A RACIST "MOTIVE" THERE IS A GIGANTIC BODY OF RACIST ICONOGRAPHY THAT THAT BOTTLE OPENER FITS PERFECTLY INTO JESUS CHRIST I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS

horseshoe on Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:15 PM (18 minutes ago)
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE'S A RACIST "MOTIVE" THERE IS A GIGANTIC BODY OF RACIST ICONOGRAPHY THAT THAT BOTTLE OPENER FITS PERFECTLY INTO JESUS CHRIST I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS

horseshoe on Thursday, March 22, 2007 3:15 PM (18 minutes ago)

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:35 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.mythfolklore.net/3043mythfolklore/images/remus/watermelon.jpg

― jaymc, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:35 (seventeen years ago) link

http://tommcmahon.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/leniafrica2.jpg

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:36 (seventeen years ago) link

^^^ nazis be paying homage

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:36 (seventeen years ago) link

FITS PERFECTLY INTO = can be made to fit into if taken entirely out of context

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:37 (seventeen years ago) link

I think it's somewhat laudable to be at a stage where iconography like that is tied directly to one person and is not indicative of an entire culture.

Having said that, if you can recognize WHY someone would associate that bottle opener with largely racist iconography, don't foist this disingenuous "oh but I just don't UNDERSTAND why you'd think it was racist!" bullshit on us. So far, the most cogent argument has come from Johnny B, largely because he simply said, "It never occurred to me to look at it that way" and didn't spend time lambasting people who DID associate it with darkie-deco.

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:37 (seventeen years ago) link

dear britishers and americaners,

no one fucking cares

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:37 (seventeen years ago) link

2x

― dan m, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:37 (seventeen years ago) link

So should Ronaldinho never be caricatured because he happens to be a buck toothed black man? Isn't picking such features out the whole point of caricature? While I'm at it, since when was having big fucking gums a black stereotype?

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:38 (seventeen years ago) link

can someone point me to the non-racist history of stuff that looks like this bottle opener? like, anything else?

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:38 (seventeen years ago) link

you can't just go through the world all willfully blind to this stuff, though, guys! it's there whether you acknowledge it or not. I kind of hate race, too, and wish I could be free of ever thinking about it again, but this is the world we inherited.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Dan (that is who HI DERE is, right?) totally OTM x 1000.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:38 (seventeen years ago) link

While I'm at it, since when was having big fucking gums a black stereotype?

WAHT

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:39 (seventeen years ago) link

(ps, yeah, I'm Dan)

― HI DERE, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:39 (seventeen years ago) link

look, we here in Britain have a footballer called Peter Crouch. He is very tall (about 6'7") and very, very thin. SO MUCH is made of his awkward dimensions that he himself has accepted the joke, and indeed played up to his status with a memorable 'robot dance' goal celebration that necessitated the somewhat expansive movements of his not insubstantial limbs. There is no difference between poking good-natured fun at Peter Crouch for being lanky than there is poking good-natured fun at Ronaldinho, the best footballer on earth (Henry aside) for having big teeth. Except for you Yanks, who would presumably turn a blind eye to the Crouch baiting because he's white.

Fucking. Hell.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:39 (seventeen years ago) link

This thread makes me wonder how those who are fuming with indignancy would react to stories about the really really nasty racist shit that goes on in the Euro fubol world.

― dan m, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:40 (seventeen years ago) link

someone should make a goatse bottle opener.

and a tubgirl bottle.

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:40 (seventeen years ago) link

LJ get one clue pls.

― G00blar, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:41 (seventeen years ago) link

Louis, the difference is a whole history of slavery and marginalisation and iconography etc etc etc.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:41 (seventeen years ago) link

someone should image bomb this thread into the next world

― Mr. Que, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:41 (seventeen years ago) link

and "not taking race into consideration" is a luxury not available to everyone.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:42 (seventeen years ago) link

So should Ronaldinho never be caricatured because he happens to be a buck toothed black man? Isn't picking such features out the whole point of caricature? While I'm at it, since when was having big fucking gums a black stereotype?

onimo on Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:38 PM (3 minutes ago)

http://blog.turntablelab.com/images/ronaldinho.jpg

OMG LOOK A RECOGNIZABLE SCULPTURE OF RONALDINHO THAT ISNT A DARKIE STEREOTYPE HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:43 (seventeen years ago) link

I've been drawn into defending something I'd otherwise be totally ambivalent towards, because such a pointless fuss has already been made over it. I should never have opened my mouth. Fair enough if you want to look at it in terms of a racist artefact, now let's forget about it and move on. Curtis is the most OTM poster on this thread.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Dan M, I'm not filled with rage, but I am sort of frustratedly confused. acknowledging that an image can be racist does not automatically render one incapable of condemning instances where people get physically abused for racist reasons. you can actually acknowledge all of it.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:43 (seventeen years ago) link

and it all might also interrelate.

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:44 (seventeen years ago) link

LJ if you agreed with me then you'd stop defending yourself and just be like "oh sorry guys I didn't realize it was racist at first, my bad, ok I'm off this thread!"

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:44 (seventeen years ago) link

oh, and that sculpture is completely unrecognizable as Ronaldinho. :-P

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Right, I posted the bottle opener because I saw it while Googling something else entirely, and thought "wtf?!" on about two levels instantly and then about another two levels within about 30 seconds. I thought it'd be interesting to see what happened if I posted it here. It has been interesting! The bottle-opener in and of itself is amusing and weird; in a wider cultural context it's either fucking vile or naive beyond comprehension. Ronaldinho is, I would wager, not purely descended from the indiginous tribes of Brazil (unlike Garrincha was, for instance [lost his virginity to a goat, wow]) - he's black, which means the only reason he's Brazillian is because his ancestors were slaves at some point and taken there.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:45 (seventeen years ago) link

which you are now doing I guess

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:45 (seventeen years ago) link

and what, that looks fuck all like Ronaldinho. you see, he has these big ol' teeth and jums...

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:45 (seventeen years ago) link

and now i shall retire to spectate from the stands, as Curtis has commanded.

― unfished business, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:45 (seventeen years ago) link

good god am I your fucking mother?

― Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:46 (seventeen years ago) link

http://www.casafree.com/modules/xcgal/albums/userpics/21493/pele%20domina%20maradona.jpg

it's Pele doing keepy ups with Maradona! nothing to do with the thread, but a great image, nonetheless.

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:46 (seventeen years ago) link

someone should image bomb this thread into the next world

any image requests?

― kenan, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:46 (seventeen years ago) link

THAT READ SO WRONG CURTIS

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:46 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm perfectly willing to accept that this item was not made with any racist motivation, that what is being caricatured is R's teeth, which is his most notable physical idiosyncracy. I don't think that the makers of it are targeting R's race any more than those who make fun of Crouch are making fun of his. BUT, because it so closely resembles hateful iconography, I wouldn't go anywhere near it--I choose not to buy this particular product, not merely because novelty bottle-openers aren't really my style, but mostly because of the racist connotations. That's understandable, right?

― G00blar, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:46 (seventeen years ago) link

oh, and that sculpture is completely unrecognizable as Ronaldinho. :-P

unfished business on Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:44 PM (6 seconds ago)

http://blog.turntablelab.com/images/ronaldinho.jpghttp://www.oceleb.com/img/ronaldinho/ronaldinho.jpghttp://i9.tinypic.com/2vwa89h.jpg

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:46 (seventeen years ago) link

OMG Pele & Maradona.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:47 (seventeen years ago) link

While I'm at it, since when was having big fucking gums a black stereotype?

WAHT

If I was to list traditional 'darkie-deco' features I'd never think of saying 'big gums' - what I've seen has emphasised big lips, fat nostrils, shiney white eyes, shiny white teeth, afro hair, etc.

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:47 (seventeen years ago) link

can someone point me to the non-racist history of stuff that looks like this bottle opener? like, anything else?

Oh, look, it's a caricature of a big-toothed person with exaggeratedly big teeth.

http://www.caricaturist.co.uk/images/Tony%20Blair%201%20web.jpg

― ailsa, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:48 (seventeen years ago) link

The mouth and eyebrows in yours are rubbish, Ethan. The eyes and nose are good.

― Scik Mouthy, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:48 (seventeen years ago) link

what G00blar said

― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:48 (seventeen years ago) link

onimo did you ever see 'forrest gump'

― and what, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:48 (seventeen years ago) link

come on, Ailsa. not the same thing!

― horseshoe, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:49 (seventeen years ago) link

OMG LOOK A RECOGNIZABLE SCULPTURE OF RONALDINHO THAT ISNT A DARKIE STEREOTYPE HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE

and what

Sculpture != caricature.

― onimo, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:49 (seventeen years ago) link

I think it's somewhat laudable to be at a stage where iconography like that is tied directly to one person and is not indicative of an entire culture.

Having said that, if you can recognize WHY someone would associate that bottle opener with largely racist iconography, don't foist this disingenuous "oh but I just don't UNDERSTAND why you'd think it was racist!" bullshit on us. So far, the most cogent argument has come from Johnny B, largely because he simply said, "It never occurred to me to look at it that way" and didn't spend time lambasting people who DID associate it with darkie-deco.

HI DERE on Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:37 PM

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THERE'S A RACIST "MOTIVE" THERE IS A GIGANTIC BODY OF RACIST ICONOGRAPHY THAT THAT BOTTLE OPENER FITS PERFECTLY

ghost rider on Thursday, March 22, 2007 2:22 PM

― Fluffy Bear Hearts Rainbows, Thursday, 22 March 2007 19:49 (seventeen years ago) link

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