Metallica! Rick Rubin! Death Magnetic! September 16 (-ish)!

And John -- I would like nothing more than for this album to kick ass. The Black album was the first CD I ever bought.

electricsound - What, the coffin box?

yes!

for the demos and the flag

yeah I mean the chances are slim I'd guess, I don't think they'd put up with the kind of producer who'd be the only kind able to get a great record out of them. but there's nothing on anybody's top ten list this year that's even a quarter as good as master of puppets so I feel like I gotta defend metallica, even though they have sucked for some time.

Defending Metallica in 2008 is like getting back together with the ex-girlfriend who cheated on you and lied to you the last 4-5 times you were together.

Highest possible respect for their work in the 80s. But do not set yourself up for further disappointment. Not even Rubin can clean up this mess.

The coffin box is $929 Finnish. Not sure how much that is in real money.

http://data1.blog.de/blog/k/kalpeakatsastaja/img/i%20want%20to%20believe.jpg

you buncha haters need to recognize that this was once one of the three or four best bands on the planet OK so even if they're dicks now you gotta give them some propers before you piss on them

4 great albums. can we talk about how much this is gonna suck now?

yeah go for it, they're awful

New song samples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYO9hxTVskk

Finnish currency is in Euros now.

929 Euros = 1 474.6946 U.S. dollars

Really? This pricelist has just the CD for €149.50, which seems kind of excessive to me.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3011/2632512014_feaaaef164_o.jpg

I don't need this album to equal their 80s stuff, I just want a Metallica album with some semblance of dignity. A good, solid 7/10-style record would make me happy.

I am my own best friend.

It was really weird to watch "Some Kind of Monster" because it suddenly seemed like they were such amateurs at songwriting, which is totally not the impression you get when you listen to "Ride the Lightning", "Master of Puppets," or "...And Justice for All."

samples sound OK-to-good except for the vocals. I mean, Metallica was never about the vocals, but they had a tweaked dignity - the Rubin touch on that voice isn't what it needs, at all. But the sample from 1:00-end? I'll fucking take it, thanks. And if they wanted to release an instrumental disc of this, I wouldn't complain.

sounds vaguely black album-ish.

Agree with J0hn - from those clips the vocals really stand out as bad. Turn them down in the mix, Rick! The guitars are still so blues/southern rock-ish, too. When did Kirk start doing that shit? I never felt any kind of Blues Hammer vibe in any of their pre-'Black Album' stuff.

I almost wish they would take that further and just go for a total down-tuned Earthride type vibe.

"Silent Hedges" by Bauhaus came up on my iPod today and at first, I was all "Well this is a weird version of 'Call of Kthulu' here."

And then a few more tunes into shuffle, "When Hell Freezes Over", a demo version of "Call of Kthulu", comes on and now this thread. yikes.

I'll give them another chance. They were easily the best band of the 1980s and the fact that they're all dicks doesn't mean the music _has_ to suck.

I am actually kinda excited/anticipatory about this one. The song samples are already 1000x better than St. Anger, and I'm gonna try real hard to squeeze one of those coffin boxes out of label/management.

I mean, Metallica was never about the vocals, but they had a tweaked dignity

The vocals on Puppets and Justice are good. Earlier than that he's a bit screechy, later he's trying too hard and they sound affected.

That preview doesn't fill me with much hope, but I'm still going to check it out. I will probably steal it, just to rile Lars.

"It was really weird to watch "Some Kind of Monster" because it suddenly seemed like they were such amateurs at songwriting..."

I agree. It seemed like they were trying way too hard and/or thinking way too much. I can't imagine they were having those intense writing sessions during "Ride the Lightning", that album is just so fucking awesome

Rick Rubin hasn't produced a decent album in what, 20 years?

I guess his song on the Li'l Jon album was okay

From what I understand from the whole Velvet Revolver fiasco is that Rubin doesn't do a goddamn thing anyway. But anything has to be better than that bleach blond surfer dude who played bass on St. Anger. Who is a worse influence, him, Lars or their shrink>?

i'm cautiously optimistic.

um don't people love all those johnny cash albums he did?

my friend says the new Neil Diamond is pretty good.

um don't people love all those johnny cash albums he did?

hate 'em

99 problems was good

it suddenly seemed like they were such amateurs at songwriting, which is totally not the impression you get when you listen to "Ride the Lightning", "Master of Puppets," or "...And Justice for All."

That totally is the impression you get - it's all charisma and kick-ass riffs that hold these albums together, the songwriting is easily the worst thing about all of them. Their idea of an epic song is to take three riffs and cycle between them every 16 bars for 9 minutes with no dynamics or development. Compare "To Live Is To Die" with, say, "Norvegr" (a song that does the exact same thing).

the overly reverent "he's a serious ARTIST DON'T YOU SEE" schtick Rubin laid on him was pretty obnoxious. Don't get me wrong, I love Johnny Cash, I own a ton of his records, but he was a very varied performer and songwriter and the overly dour, super-serious treatment Rubin gave him and the songs Rubin selected for him to cover were pretty predictable and uninspired. There's no fun, no joy in those records - they were all about propping up the mythologized image of Cash as a tragic, tortured figure and there was way more to him than that.

but what do I know

x-post

but what do I know

OTM

the songs Rubin selected for him to cover were pretty predictable and uninspired.

"Thirteen" (Glenn Danzig)
"Rusty Cage" (Chris Cornell) – 2:49
"Hurt" (Reznor) – 3:38
"Personal Jesus" (Gore) – 3:20

cash was a long time depeche mode fan though, he was doing a bob wills/western swing style version of "master and servant" in his live sets as early as 87

^^^all a bunch of dark, maudlin crap

x-post

The second Cash/Rubin record, Unchained, is the only real keeper. There was a band behind him, and he actually rocked out a few times - the aforementioned cover of "Rusty Cage" in particular. For that reason, it's kind of ignored now, because all the super-serious critics who fawned all over the most mournful of the acoustic stuff didn't want to hear a Cash with any life in him.

Rick Rubin hasn't produced a decent album in what, 20 years?

I like his work with System of a Down.

unperson I disagree. His first is the only keeper. Totally stripped down - it's just him.

Cash singing 'Master of Puppets' - that would be a keeper.

>Totally stripped down - it's just him.

Yeah, but can you explain to me why that's a good thing? Cash wasn't a folkie; his first band was a trio, and he always needed accompaniment, rhythm, support.

^^^ding ding ding

yeah God Forbid an artist does something unexpected, amirite guys?

first two cash records are great. if they'd stopped there i'd have no beef.

(first two cash/rubin obv.)

its not that it was unexpected, it was totally predictable! (not to mention boring). What more predictable way to deal with an aging icon than to give him a bunch of shitty "contemporary" songs to cover and act like absolutely nothing is required of the producer than to just record the man and his guitar.

anyway this should all be on some other thread

you predicted that Johnny Cash would sing a Misfits song? that's amazing.

i think your projecting a lot of stuff that happened AFTER the cash records were such a big success shakey...it's predictable now, only cuz those records MADE it predictable

the particular songs don't matter Mr. Que - its like whenever they pair any aging icon with young talent eager to work with their idols (see also: Willie Nelson, that stupid Sinatra duets record, etc.) In principle there's nothing wrong with a little cross-generational miscegenation (Nitty Gritty Dirt Band's "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" is amazing, for example) but the lame marketing angle and the overly reverential treatment given the performer rarely result in any good music.

anyway i still reckon you should start a separate thread and paste those posts on it.
xp

best major label rock albums of the decade

i just hope those who gushed over it on release will now admit it's shite

No such luck, bud. I was listening to it yesterday. I still like it a lot. And when I saw them in February, the new songs went over huge with the crowd. I expect the same thing to happen when I see them in a couple of weeks at MSG.

I still like this too, my only two complaints being the horrible compression and the "what don't kill you make you more strong" chorus lyric.

the horrible compression

Yeah, I will admit I don't actually play the physical CD; I downloaded the Guitar Hero version and that's what's in my iPod - that, and the audio of the Newark show I was at, purchased from their website.

'What, you expected it to get good all of the sudden? Is there some kind of "time release" music technology, like a vitamin?'

There's a natural tendency to embrace vilified crap years later. I can't think of a counterexample (initially thought of as crap, remains crap). Is there one?

There's a lot of crap that starts out crap and remains crap.

I mean remains thought of as crap. I'm sure a lot of crap was initially correctly identified, but the years tend to make people second guess that correct assumption. People are just too forgiving!

How about most, if not all, of Mick Jagger's solo work? I think that's the epitome of crap.

I bet there's at least one person on ILM who will make a spirited defence of Mick Jagger's solo work.

I can't think of a counterexample (initially thought of as crap, remains crap). Is there one?

St. Anger?

I still think this album's pretty good.

"love is a four-letter word"

"splatter some color on this gray"

i typed that into google and the only hit it is What's going on with High on Fire?

ah, it's "i'll splatter color on this gray"

good to know

It never ceases to amaze me how while Hetfield's lyrics weren't exactly intellectual back in the day, everything 1991-present makes old Jaymz' lyrics look reminiscent of Plato in comparison.

hell even the Black album, which had its share of cringe-inducing moments is more tolerable than the 'lol wtf' stuff James writes now. I'd prefer it if all James did was grunt the word "bonzai" over thrash riffs.

I'd prefer it if all James did was grunt the word "bonzai" over thrash riffs.

<3 this so much

"Can't you help me be uncrazy?"

yeah, it's weird-- Jaymz's lyrics from Ride the Lightning through Black Album are pretty good. The stuff shown in Some Kind of Monster are downright embarrassing-- although Kirk's contributions are jaw-droppingly embarrassing.

dude's life rattle determined his death rattle

i rage i glaze i hurt i hate iirc

Ha ha, you listen to Metallica lyrics. (Sounds like an Anal Cunt song title: "You Listen To Metallica For The Words.")

Yeah, I'd actually say that from Ride through the black album that James' lyrics at least approached the intellectual. He seemed very informed and literate and capable of describing his insights and opinions in a poetic way.

For me, as a Metallica-listening preteen, the first intimations of trouble were definitely the nursery rhymes in Enter Sandman. I felt that was such a cheap move.

Especially since Megadeth had just used that same exact prayer on "Go to Hell".

Yeah, but for some reason I liked it when Megadeth did it, maybe because I didn't expect as much from Megadeth at the time. I mean, that was on the Bill & Ted soundtrack.

I mean: Slaughter! Steve Vai! Faith No More! Kiss! Megadeth! Winger! Primus!

Battle Stations is a jam though.

My point was when "Enter Sandman" came out, not only was it a little lame, but I was also like "wait, didn't I just hear someone do this over the summer? And wasn't it Metallica's EX-GUITARIST?"

My first truly raised lyrical eyebrow was the "... And Justice ..." nugget: "See your mother, put to death. See your mother ... die!"

Well, yeah. You just said it, James. Whether it works or not, the redundancy's always bugged me.

What's the grammatical term for reversing the order of words, the way they so often do in metal? Like, not "puppet master," but "master of puppets?"

There used to be a children's furniture store here called Cradles of Distinction.

maybe they should give Lars a go at singing. might be humorous

I maintain there are four cracking tracks on this album (That Was Just your Life, End of the Line, All Nightmare Long, Cyanide)

I like this record but I consider it more of a Rick Rubin success than a Metallica one.

lol

sorry if i'm coming off as just a hater, but i worry that any appraisal of this record in any way favorably comparing it to MOP or any of the other older metallica albums is so missing the point of what made those albums great, which was GREAT songs and GREAT guitar sound/creative playing. these things are missing 100% from this record. there is not a trace of that here. and those qualities, while they exist in the past, are what made metallica monstrous and to be feared and huge and awesome, and they are worth standing up for, IMO.

I got overexcited about "wow, a not terrible new metallica album" back then but let's be honest this roxy post was ridiculously OTM. plus I got a long tattoo once when this album was playing in the shop and fuckn' A you do not wanna have to sit through this record during a tattoo sitting.

eternal smdh @ critics racing to out-"surprisingly not that bad!!" each other about a weak album

I stand by my review.