Bruce Springsteen - Classic or Dud ?

i actually liked born_in_the_u.s.a when it came out at age 7, but later, i found it to be an obstacle in getting to love bruce, and i'm sure there are a ton of artists out there whose work at that time has kept people away from them.

as sterling said, it's funny what driving a car can do, especially when it's another dark and lonely night out on an empty anonymous new jersey highway and "born to run" comes on the highway. but i've been there, so i'll move on.

you can get by on the first five or so albums on the music and production alone -- unless of course you hate phil spector and are, therefore, destined to spend eternity in hell -- and the later stuff will stick if you find something in the lyrics that rings far too true. sure, he mines the same territory in a lot of his songs, but so do belle & sebastian and so did the smiths; except the kids in bruce's songs could kick the ass of their counterparts in the aforementioned.

ned, i think you have the same problem as tom: it's a cultural thing. ;)

It's not a cultural thing; I mean for god's sake Motorcycle Emptiness might as well be Bruce Springsteen on a literacy trip in terms of subject, and I know Tom likes the song, and I believe Ned does too. Whether that particular statement was tongue in cheek or not, it's a tired excuse and reasoning, one usually used by the saddest of Bruce Springsteen fans, the ones who "identify" with his sentiments, seemingly losing track of the fact that BRUCE'S CHARACTERS NEVER ACTUALLY MAKE IT OUT. Some positive role models to rock out to.

The thing is, I think it's the voice and the earnestness, which was already said. The stylistic values of it....the basic cultural and escape sentiments, lyrically, of Motorcycle Emptiness and Born to Run might be very similar in tone, but the style and vocalisings are entirely, 100% different. Bruce has a very sarcastic bent, a very dark bent, lyrically, but his style of music softens the blow and sometimes people just don't like it.

And those people are wrong, incidentally :P

Nebraska is half good but doesn't deserve the plaudits it gets as the Springsteen album it's cool to like.

The rest is pretty much DUD.

Nevermind that Born in the USA was my first record not meant to be played on the Fisher Price record player (with the STEEL NEEDLE)

Nevermind Tracks Nevermind the fact that Born to Run is one of the best driving albums ever when your top is down and it's summer and the road between Ventura and home stretches out and empty at night with no cops...

Nevermind he has out Dylan-ed Dylan

Nevermind that he can outrage The Man as he pushes the dark side of life. (41 Shots)

Nevermind the line "The record company Rosie, JUST GAVE ME A BIG ADVANCE!"

Nevermind the Live box set, reminding us just how powerful he was

Nevermind Time and Newsweek

Nevermind Thunder-Fucking-Road

Nevermind The cover of Jersey Girl

Nevermind Tracks

Nevermind the MTV Unplugged set where he scrapped the entire notion of an acoustic show and just plugged in and tore down the house

Nevermind everyone on this list who called him a dud.

well, Bruce isn't *that* bad! ;)

La Bruce just collectively calls to my mind a stunted bastard vision of music that presumes he was the sole carrier of the 'spirit of rock and roll truth' that the Beatles and Stones 'started' in the sixties. A CLAIM I HAVE ENCOUNTERED MORE THAN ONCE, though thankfully not here, and happily never from the man's own lips either, at least to my knowledge. Without that rhetoric I would just shrug and ignore him for somebody more interesting, but with it, frankly, he becomes a very very useful target to kick against. Perhaps only a straw man, but one I wouldn't mind seeing go up in flames.

The boy has fallen off of late, but... I'm reminded of the Bangs article where he describes how he dismissed this Maoist band as sounding like Bruce, and the band replied "oh, good, the working class like that stuff" or something of the sort, and I'm reading this thinking -- no. no. no. The correct answer is "oh, good. Bruce fucking rocks!"

What I appreciate about Bruce is how he can capture the majesty of a major chord. How so many of his songs have the same progression, but you don't realize it 'till you try to play 'em yourself. How he can take gospel music and write it to a girl instead. And yes, more of them damn anthems.

I mean.. I know that anthems aren't an alien concept to the UK -- after all, The Who were full of them. But maybe British anthems are a different type a "get off of my cloud" or "sod off" type, more cynical and pissy than dreamy and wide-eyed. Maybe this is, after all, because America is The Big Country, The Great Bitch, et cet. Maybe to get America you have to get just how there's always somewhere you might go, maybe.

Along these lines, "Not Fade Away" which is a novel by Jim Dodge is a great rock road story, sort of like the lighter side of Richard Hell's "Go Now" or the more earnest(?) side of Bruce McCullough's "Doors Fan" sketch (on his album, Shame-Based Man). Yes. Get that spirit of the open highway.

I will say, though, that I do lack a car and have never had one. That might serve as a better explanation. ;-)

I wish I wasn't misinterpreting.

Inspirational in some ways. I have often felt that England needed a Springsteen, albeit not just a a copycat 'rocker'; I mean, someone who would write about all the lost and found small-town lives. But to be fair, I suppose there is already a UK tradition here: the probably Jarvis Cocker is a case in point.

1. they don't understand that he's actually not as "pro-america" as they might think he is

2. they don't have as close a connection to "old school" code (which includes "old school" rock)

3. they are mostly college kids on their way up to some office job or whatever that is removed (if not far removed) from the "underworld" (the "blue collar" or "real" world) to get the lyrical sentiments

4. well, and...sometimes people just don't like something 'cause they just don't like it

I, however, do not apply to any of those 4. For I actually do "get" some of the appeal of Bruce (albeit, it took my until my mid or late twenties to get there). Sure, his overly sentimental (downright broadway or maudlin) look at the working class can be a bit (or a bunch) too much. And sure, his music can be too simple and/or too derivitive. But, that's a part of the whole. Familiarity in both music and lyrics, is a large part of the appeal of his stuff (and those like him, ala Mellencamp, etc). He just had the concept to put nearly a whole career on the working class/blue collar life like no other has (not in such a wide reaching broad sense, at least - other than Mellencamp, but Bruce did it a bit better and first).

Classics:

Having said all that, 'Nebraska' and 'Ghost of Tom Joad' are the only two full albums that I would declare anywhere near a "classic" state of existence (with 'Nebraska' being the one clear-cut vote). Many of the rest of his 70's and 80's albums have some good solid worthy singles on them, but. I can't go so far as to get 'The River' (for example) anywhere near a "classic" nod. That one, in particular, I find to be overrated (though still having the wonderful track "Stolen Car" and the title track deserving of 'Nebraska'-like attention).

Anyways, I forgot to mention to huge (to the point of shadowing) element as to one of the why's (or why not's) of enjoy/appreciating Bruce. Which is: DRIVING. Cars and driving is such a central and/or reoccuring figure/subject in his work that...I can't believe I forgot to touch upon that (only after reading some of the others posts, darn it). But yea, I do LOVE to drive. Which also helps to explain the appeal of Springsteen (to me, at least).

*By the way, I do own that McCulloch album 'Shame Based Man' and...love it (some really funny stuff and one of the very rare comedy albums worthy of many plays - if not it's own discussion here on "I Love Music"...anyone?). Every single one of my girlfriends (one present, others past) hated it. "And if (after torching the stolen car) you can still hear the Doors playing...then you have become...a DOORS...FAN!" I'm not a Doors fan, however.

I hadn't listened to this record in a couple of years, but god, it still sounded great. Actually, I kept getting shivers down my spine when it was playing and it had me close to tears a few times (mostly on "Thunder Road" and "Backstreets.") Listening to this today finally settled an ILM debate for me: Music can never affect me quite as much now as it did when I was a teenager. No record I've heard in the last few years, including Loveless, has had as much affect on me as Born to Run did this morning, and I know it's not just because Born to Run is such a great album. This is a record that got to me when I was young and emotionally vulnerable in a way that I'm not anymore, at the age of 32. I still feel music very deeply and appreciate and enjoy a wider range of music than ever, but music doesn’t completely overpower me the way it did when I was 15. Oh well.

Springsteen is still a big classic, by the way, despite all the incredibly corny lines on Born to Run.

"candy's room" is the grebtest song ever written about being in love w. a prostitute when you sound a bit like david bowie

Is this a new genre? Cos that'd be fucking incredible.

I still love Bruce Springsteen. Put on Rosalita and you will see me go insane.

Yeah, new album is weak. Basically just an excuse for the live shows, though, which according to what I've heard remain wonderful.

Found this at the near start of the thread, dunno if Ned can be bothered to talk about it now:

La Bruce just collectively calls to my mind a stunted bastard vision of music that presumes he was the sole carrier of the 'spirit of rock and roll truth' that the Beatles and Stones 'started' in the sixties.

Odd, because Springsteen's own views are the exact opposite- he was always far less interested in The Beatles and The Rolling Stones than he was in Phil Spector and James Brown.

Though he always does look really tense and "real rock" when he performs.

It used to be such that every time I got drunk, the evening would end with me and a gentleman companion in the group deciding to put on Dancing in the Dark and imitating the Boss & Courteney Cox dance. This has thankfully not occured in a long time now.

Ah, to explain my sense further -- there I wasn't referring to exact sound (I hope) so much as the role he seems to be in. I don't like universal idolatry, but personal, and so much around Bruce is "my god, the genius is among us all again! DO YOU SEE!" insistence that just makes me hate him even more. Like I said above in that quote, I don't get the sense that he believes that garbage (if he takes Dave Marsh at all seriously, though, that's a pisser).

And as for the music itself, a lot of people love Phil Spector and James Brown. In my mind, that doesn't give them a free pass for their own efforts. ;-)

My only realization about Bruce recently has been when I finally heard Bat Out of Hell and realized I loved that a hell of a lot more than any Springsteen I've heard.

that's a great story, the kids that approached him must have been terrified it would become a "don't meet your heroes" moment

TIny bit of Rashomon to this but still a great story

The third Passaic night (sept 21st) of the legendary 1978 Darkness tour has now been released officially too (aka Coup De Grace) - and even though it may not one of The Big Five (the 5 shows that were broadcast on the radio & became the most bootlegged & wellknown), you can't go wrong with any of these shows, really.

Been digging a live version of “Because the Night” by Patti…Lupone. She makes it sound like an outtake from The Rocky Horror Picture Show.

From this:
https://playbill.com/article/patti-lupone-at-les-mouches-vintage-lupone-club-act-arrives-in-stores-nov-11-com-155028

Which was a midnight Saturday cabaret show she was doing in 1980 while she was in the midst of doing Evita.

From old cassette tapes! Pretty appropriate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMRF7PiJBAs

Anyway, sorry for the seeming derail. It’s just the only version I’ve heard that seems to take the Patti version and put a tiny bit of spin on it rather than just being…okay and similar but not quite as good like every other version.

The performance clips from the video are on the verge of being an SCTV parody, and I mean that in the best possible way.

Even redeems a crummy Kinks song.

If one can redeem something terrible by making it terrible in a brand new way. You weren't kidding about SCTV!

Listening to that album now. Almost laughed out loud at the veiled Tina Turner reference in “Heaven Is a Disco”

This thing is from the same universe as that Lou Reed live with The Toys albums.

The Tots, not The Toys. American Poet.

Springsteen joined Mellencamp onstage last night at NJ PAC for "Pink Houses":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qo_-W4lBe4

Bruce looking lithe, limber and ready to get back on the road.

Wait, hold up, is that Lisa Germano?! She's back!!

Yes it is! I saw Mellencamp at the Beacon and he was awesome. At one point, he let a kid get on stage and let HIM sing one of his hits while he walked off for what seemed like a smoke.

Tour resumes tonight, Bruce lookin' good!
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/432766426_949567229858904_5539654209860653751_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=VIQrTwEDuDIAX-pUF_u&_nc_ht=scontent-ord5-2.xx&oh=00_AfAb_AU3DFryU1mnOECcjxasUkZHb2Bs1-l5gM3TKWfI8A&oe=65FE75E5

hottest silver fox in town

Some nerd livestreamed the whole show, if you want to watch it:

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1083363189561218&id=1182636260&mibextid=qi2Omg

More or less the same set, slight tweaks.

Had no idea he was even on tour!

Interesting:

https://pitchfork.com/news/bruce-springsteen-movie-starring-jeremy-allen-white-in-the-works/

The Bruce

The movie is just gonna be him floating down a river in a canoe listening to the songs on a boom box. Would watch!

Love that Bruce is getting back in the habit of popping up on stage with other musicians. Somebody leaked the news yesterday, and I think he flies home between shows anyway, but Bruce flew east from Cali to play with Zach Bryan in Brooklyn yesterday.

I'm not familiar with the song they played together "Sandpaper."

I think it's new.

Just found out about this guy flying home between shows. That's wild. (Not to mention, environmentally questionable.)

Carbon footprints of the rich and famous. But he's 74, it's probably nice to go home for a few days.

Speaking of flying, some friends and I are talking about flying up to one of the Philly shows. I don't know if it'll come together, but I really would like to see him (at least) one more time.

going to see him for the first time in sf on Sunday. excited!

you are in for a treat my friend

Looks like he is loosening up the setlists, maybe 5%, throwing in some songs he hasn't played yet, taking the occasional request. Still mostly the usual, but I think he knew people were getting a little tired of that.

I think I'm going to try to see him again in Philly this August, depending on prices.

Some nice additions in Los Angeles last night, reportedly. And 32 songs, 3 1/2 hours! He's done this before, recently, one tour leg exciting but still relatively conservative, and then the next one loosening up, with more requests and surprises.

Bob Seger used to do the same thing. Play two or three shows, fly home for a few days, go back out. Metallica, too.

Zeppelin kind of invented the home-base method of regional rock band touring, as I understand it. Set up in Chicago, head out for a bunch of shows within a certain radius. This is not what Bruce is doing, though I think Bruce does fly home after almost every show. I meant that Bruce toured for much of 2023, took time off to get healthy, and now has returned to the road (for many months) reportedly reinvigorated.

The sound at the show last week was almost unbearably loud (forgot to bring ear protection which i basically always tote to a show). The horn section was just blaring and after 2 hours I was semi covering the ear most exposed to a speaker stack when they came in. But I am really happy that I went and jeez feel like we really got our money's worth. Band sounded great and was awesome to see those legends.

it's quite remarkable to see him in 2024 and consider that he is more or less 40 years past his live peak.

I love, for the boss' sake, that he has a "Little Big Man" in the band