funky house sceptics, let me draw your attention to this

@ (its all about face)

Is inspiration always appropriative or only when the inspired person is white and middle class? Is it different for a white middle class producer to be inspired by something as opposed to a white middle class journalist? Both may make some money or at least cultural capital out of the inspiration/appropriation, but as this debate seems to be about an alleged lack of recognition for funky artists making 'better' music, then surely both are helping increase awareness of the sound. Can you imagine what harder task Tim would have flying the flag for the likes of Ill Blu etc. if FACT mag hadnt given some coverage to some of the funky producers and DJs that appeal to their taste like Roska. I mean, it is conceivable, that with good reason many people could find Roska and co. better than Ill Blu. Is there something wrong with that apart from not sharing that musical preference?

black once again with the ill behaviour/Dubmugga, if you're gonna troll, at least have the balls to log in with your real name.

i'm not trolling and what difference does posting under a real name make ? forget the bulshit and just expand on your 'parallel paths and differing backgrounds in a class barrier context as it relates to funky

oh and on a personal note, please stop making weak, deficient, near insipid versions of this stuff and getting all the attention and pass the message onto kode9 and grievous angel as well...ta:)

FWIW titchy...i too dont give a shit about the upperclasses making music as long as its good.

"Is it different for a white middle class producer to be inspired by something as opposed to a white middle class journalist? "

if it makes it harder for the real innovators to shine cos some privileged journo decides to become a producer and clone whatevers flavour of the month sound, then yeah. and by privileged i mean the position of being a music journo as opposed to not having an underclass background.

whats with the ugly trend of 'journos turn producer and pimp themselves and their mates in some closed loop' anyway ? journos making the news instead of just reporting it.

in his defence, grevious angel is an amazing dj (dubstep sufferah mixes are just sublime and better than a lot of the DSAS cds tbh). i like kode 9 best as a dj too.

@ its all about face

I'd be interested to hear which former journo has 'cloned' funky without adding something (for better or worse).

hes talking about martin clarke clearly. although he makes dubstep so its not really justified.
to the person calling me a cock, i might be a cock but it would be more appropriate to say so on the thread in question.
cheers
luka

http://vulive.co.uk/content/2009/12/03/weeksey-and-bandit-13-november-2009/

@Martinclark I think claims of using a 'real name' and trolling are a bit weak. Sure, I don't agree with the extremity of these posts by 'it's all about face', but clearly you're raising some issues here that aren't so easily dismissed now that they're put them on the table.

There seems to be this idea in your post that UK Funky be understood in a way that allows everyone to participate in some kind of broader collective project, but just as you recommend that Tim accept that not everyone enjoys Funky so wholeheartedly, maybe you need to also accept that not everyone feels the need to acknowledge an idea of UK Bass that allows for the greater health of some kind of free-for-all - in this case, a scene becomes more like a non-scene in your definition, defining it so inclusively as to completely efface whatever barriers you simultaneously acknowledge as making a difference (surely, the situation of defining Funky is more complicated than 'being from the ends' anyway?).

I guess one thing I can take away from Funky is that it does seem to be music that people actually have opinions about, which is really something exciting in itself.

I'm also with Tim that the majority of journalism on Funky is mediocre at best, and downright offensive at worse. Though it should be said that journalism in any form is never a non-innocent activity of simply celebrating great music.

"hes talking about martin clarke clearly. although he makes dubstep so its not really justified."

"Much of this 130 funky-inspired music of oneman, bok bok, ME n dusk, kode9, needs to be seen in this context," - martin clark

...somewhat justified and perhaps journo doesnt quite cover what kode9 and grievous do but their funky inspired music is to say the least, a bit lack lustre.

without getting into a dubstep vs funky argument. in all genres, you can look for the universally noisy/rigid (whatever that means) and find it, but to lump the rest in as representative of the wider genre is doing it a disservice. regarding the narrow breadth, if you take out the standard galloping bashy like funky beat there really isnt much left.

@ its all about face

>without getting into a dubstep vs funky argument. in all genres, you can look for the universally >noisy/rigid (whatever that means) and find it, but to lump the rest in as representative of the >wider genre is doing it a disservice. regarding the narrow breadth, if you take out the standard >galloping bashy like funky beat there really isnt much left.

yeah, whatever that means.

hes saying you can disregard the 'main' of the music but thats ultimately what makes it what it is. i think.

oh yeah jon b...youre a cock

funky house lovers let me draw your attention to this:

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc30/bobotronic/FLYERS/SAHOUSE_EP_front.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc30/bobotronic/FLYERS/SAHOUSE_EP_back.jpg

available on itunes now.

"hes saying you can disregard the 'main' of the music but thats ultimately what makes it what it is. i think."

what i'm saying is martin clark is full of shit, makes shit tunes, argues shit points and is a cock who backtracks and wimps out when his card is pulled.

but as this debate seems to be about an alleged lack of recognition for funky artists making 'better' music, then surely both are helping increase awareness of the sound. Can you imagine what harder task Tim would have flying the flag for the likes of Ill Blu etc. if FACT mag hadnt given some coverage to some of the funky producers and DJs that appeal to their taste like Roska. I mean, it is conceivable, that with good reason many people could find Roska and co. better than Ill Blu. Is there something wrong with that apart from not sharing that musical preference?

Again Jon, my issue is not with Roska/Scratcha/Cooly getting coverage. I said this on Dissensus about the Urb article, which may assist you to get what i'm trying to say and not misconstrue me - this is the last thing I'll say on the topic (until the next bad article comes along):

...And of course (Scratcha's) own stuff deserves attention - I thought "Hard House" was one of the best funky tracks of last year (shame it's not on the mini-mix).

What bugged me was the writer feeling it was necessary to say this:

"Overall, it’s been tough to gauge a concrete grasp of what’s artistically and creatively fruitful in the genre of UK Funky. However, certain DJs and producers are giving the genre a backbone along with the pop cheese. Producers like Roska (or Mentor Roska, as he’s affectionally referred to), Cooly G, and Geeneus have all been pivotal in the shake-up of UK Funky, providing intrigue, depth, and necessary weight to a genre dominated by percussion and diva vocals."

Quite oddly, the writer half-admits that (s)he is finding it difficult to follow funky, but then blithely commits to the argument that these four producers must be the people offering "backbone", "intrigue", "depth" and "necessary weight" to balance out what (s)he describes as "pop cheese".

Why would a writer who is probably rather aware of the superficiality of their familiarity with a scene still feel compelled to big up the artists they like at the expense of the genre at large?

The short answer is probably that XLR8R said so.

The longer answer is: Because this is how rock criticism and dance criticism is structured for the most part. We love our iconoclasts. We like the idea that the artists we check for are bold, brave, questing individuals who rebel against and transcend the (insert phrase to describe the irredeemable unadventurousness and lightweightness of their host scene - hey, "pop cheese" will do!) of their parent genre.

And we proceed to apply these structures of judgment even when we half-know we really have no idea what we're talking about.

Well, "we" do this.

This is something I'm fairly aware of in writing, and for all my kvetching here, for all the times I've been told I'm miserly or curmudgeonly, I think I'm pretty careful to write about given artists in a way that talks positively about their relationship to their genre, both in terms of points-of-similarity and points-of-difference.

Really any producer who is worth their salt and who amasses a decent number of ace tracks will not be able to be reduced to being merely an expression of genre - not legitimately anyway. So of course there's a role in criticism highlighting this, saying "look what Scratcha or Roska or Mad.One or Scotty D or Royal P or whoever does which is novel and distinct and exciting."

But I wish this was done in the context of a spirit of listening that thought "isn't this great that funky has so many talented and unique producers like this" rather than "what a relief that this iconoclastic producer is here to save us from having to listen to other funky..."

Fair enough Tim, that clarification makes alot of sense. I was just concerned that producers on the periphery of the mainstream of funky were getting slagged off just because they seemed to be receiving most of the tiny bit of coverage funky is getting. In herd-like fashion, I can already see the forum sheep turning on them, e.g. Roska, here and on dissensus as if they are guilty of tricking the media and hogging all the limelight, which clearly isn't the case, whether you like his tunes or not.

@ Luka, sorry for that mistargeted 'cock', I clearly should have aimed it at 'its all about cock face'.

its all right... dont mind a bit of abuse

zoom, I can't find the Aoybaness! on iTunes. What should I be searching for?

clearly jon, you should just shut the fuck up and not throw insults around at all, unless thrown at you first...you cock

martin and i have been trading them for probably about 5 or 6 years now. it's how we do:)

the thing with funky is. if you take away its signifying back beat what are you left with ?

kinda like 2 step without the 2 step beat is not 2 step or house without the 4 on the floor kicks is not house.

unlike dubstep where there is more to it than just it's half step canon

i just see funky as a fad with no real long term potential

did that ill blu aaliyah remix ever get released officially/unofficially? only have it on an old marcus set. would love to have it on its own.

"if you take away its signifying back beat what are you left with ?"

same with dubstep and bass. i mean, ok, its proven you can do that. but why would you want to? most of these scenes are best when there is some uniform element to them with a degree of elasticity to it. obv that means you just have to love that one uniform element a LOT, but once those things go, they lose identity. dubstep included.

rennavate, sorry i guess it's not exactly available just yet... i'm getting it sorted right now will get back to you.

and now we have a problem with the cover for the official album (small on the back of the EP): peeps and artists in SA hate it. they say it's a photo of a ghetto street with garbage n shit, while what they like is the bling... but no wetern electronic music lover is going to buy something with cheesy people in haute couture looking slick on the cover with gothic type... oh boy.

did that ill blu aaliyah remix ever get released officially/unofficially? only have it on an old marcus set. would love to have it on its own.

it's in the You, Tim, 2009 thread.

Does anyone want to mention how cheap and awful these songs sound when the producer has his name repeated over and over? Roska, Ill Blu, take your lashings!

Ha, I think that's precisely backwards actually. I love the producer signatures.

I find it to be really cheap and tacky. If your music is good enough, you don't need to chat your name all over it for people to know who did it. Let's hope Burial does some shout-outs on his next album then eh?

Yes the most important issue here is whether Burial gets inspired i guess. ;-)

Anyway the whole point of these signature tags is the way in which they're positioned, usually at the beginning of the first drop (particularly Ill Blu and Funkystepz, less so Roska but usually him as well) to let you know big things are about to happen.

It's the pleasure of its combination of expectation and shock, like unwrapping a birthday present.

Hmm, i see it more as an ego driven attempt to promote through name recognition, but we disagree. I still like the tunes, but i'd never use them in a mix. You definitely can't play 2 Roska tracks in the same mix without it sounding stupid. Do you need those name drops to let you know big things are about to happen? How did dancefloors ever survive without the name of the producer being shouted over the first big breakdown?

No but no tune "needs" anything. It's a fun trick - and given these guys receive almost zero hype/publicity elsewhere I hardly think you can begrudge the "ego" this displays.

You definitely can't play 2 Roska tracks in the same mix without it sounding stupid.

Funky DJs do this all the time and it doesn't sound stupid; if you're worried that people will think that you only play Roska tunes the answer is you should invest in more funky tunes obv!

"Shabba!"

how are people still surprised/discomfited by producer signatures after so many years of THE-AMERICAN-DREAM or FRIKKI-FRIKKI timbalandisms or WAITAMINUTEMUHFUCKA polowisms &c &c &c - i wish we had even more of them in funky tbh, everyone should have one. it is one's imprimatur

Also the Ill Blu and Funkystepz signatures tell you everything you need to know about their sounds in microcosm (ominous robot warning and chipmunk goblin chortle respectively).

I love producer signatures. Agreed with Lex, they should be embraced not dismissed.

been loving this ravey number recently;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmM63wpzdXI

my fav producer stamp is still cooly g's - which like ill blu et al's is a perfect summation of her vibe. "mwah mwah mwah, yeah it's cooly g!"

producer stamps are so hooky too! it's kind of part & parcel to tons of great songs i think. i mean... the best part of "i luv your girl" is "mmhmmm... the american dream/ mmmhmmm... do you know what i mean? mmhmmm". whenever i think "ew" now i hear it in the way that robot voice shouts "ill!" in ill blu songs

i dont mind producer sigs but some producers could come up with slightly better ones. the roska ones ok, though i always think its kano saying roskas name for some reason. i prefer sigs that are a bit weirder though and dont just shout out the producers name, like terror danjahs cackle, or.... i dunno, im drawing a blank. anythings better than producers talking on their own records though.

i do like the ill blu one though.

ms dynamite looking gorgeous in her new video...great track

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKB3hJBvAZY

donae'o's "riot music" has a video too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QA7YesI5Ws

nothing to do with funky per se but yeah Wile Out is hot. finally a big crossover tune i can get behind (after the decent but rather embarrassing attempts of wearing my rolex, etc). top of both dance and pop charts soon? IMO it should be...

and Ayobaness! EP will be available after tuesday of next week... my bad.

dont really like the chorus of the wile out tune. ms dynamite is great but she isnt quite as good as she used to be. why wile out has a video but get low doesnt though is odd. are they waiting for a big label deal for that one or something?

Thoughts on Devine Collective:

http://getphysical.blogspot.com/2010/01/im-not-trying-to-be-legislative-when-i.html

the worst tag ever is that grime mc who shouted ITS THE MERKLE MAN

no. and that wasnt a tag. that was a verse.

one of the best in fact.

tim, how do you go back on your blog? i wanted to read some of the earlier entries but cant seem to find the link.

ever tried googling tim finney?

http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/2009/08/tim-finney-on-analysis-of-textual.html

That guy is weirdly like me transposed to Biblical rather than funky obsession, he's even in Australia I think (though on the west coast not east).

New Larizzle mix is good, nice to finally get some names to some of those ace Lil' Silva dubs. Also evidently "Kodi Starr" is the Crazy Cousinz' new non de plume for street productions. "Hooligans" is totally awesome btw, another canonical Ill Blu production (but people should also download the Ill Blu radio set I posted upthread which kicks off with it).

http://www.4shared.com/file/205708101/65fe5c7/DJ_Larizzle__StormParties__Str.html

1. Princess Nyah Hooligans
2. Crazy Cousinz Sonar
3. Crazy Cousinz ft. MC Versatile Searching For You
4. Deep Teknologi Anthem
5. MC Ramzee (StormParties) Hand In Da Air {{DJ Larizzle Special}}
6. Geeneus ft. Ms Dynamite Get Low
7. DJ Sdoko World On Fire
8. Addictive Domino Effect (O.B Funky Remix)
9. Perempay & Dee Kick Start
10. Dennis Ferrer Hey Hey
11. Mista Bee (PiknMix) Amazons Soul
12. Major Lazer ft. Vybz Kartel Pon De Floor
13. Funky Twinz ft. Angel J Smile
14. Storm ft. Ishan Round and Round (Bobby Digital production) {{DJ Larizzle Special}}
15. Miss Fire Fallin (Dj Naughty Remix)
16. Lil Silva Heartbeat
17. Princess Nyah Crazy
18. LR Groove Key
19. Crazy Cousinz Bongo Jam (L-Vis and Bok Bok Refix)
20. Kodi Starr (Crazy Cousinz) ft. Mc Sickman - Money Routine
21. SMI ft. Quicy (choice fm) Hear Wot I Say {{DJ Larizzle Special}}
22. Mad One Girls House
23. Jan Driver Rat Alert
24. Lil Silva ft. MC Versatile Im The Man
25. Undisputed Sunglasses (DJ Champion Remix)
26. Slick Don Freestyle {{DJ Larizzle Exclusive}}
27. Kodi Starr (Crazy Cousinz) Extortion
28. MC Ramzee (StormParties) Whos Dat Lighty
29. Illmana ft. Tamzin Kiss You
30. Champion ft. Sharky, Trilla, Zest, Riskgo & Ash Monee - Swagger Affair
31. Greyman Blackberry Music {{DJ Larizzle Special}}
32. Dums Amari Pees 4 Dat {{DJ Larizzle Special}}
33. Undisputed ft. Mr M Dash Down {{DJ Larizzle Special}}
34. Funkystepz ft. Lily McKenzie - For U
35. DJ Champion Motherboard {{DJ Larizzle Special}}
36. NIKX Ft. Sharky - Come on over
37. Greyman ft. Charlean Dance & Major Ace - Not In Love
38. JP Styla Gabryelle Storm
39. L3 ft. Tribal Man & Ramzee I Love Funky {{DJ Larizzle Special}}
40. Undisputed ft. Riskgo Be My Baby
41. Lil Silva Drift

Titchy, the general link http://getphysical.blogspot.com goes back to about 2004 which is as far back as I've been using blogspot. One day I'll sort out the archives for the previous stuff but anything in my "one day" box usually means "never".

re: producer stamps, the roska ones definitely add to them. the one on 'our father' is just an incredible release.

wile out is alright, it's not even half as good as 'get low' tho. i was going to make some comment about how geeneus vol 2 needs to hurry up and come out, but yeah, they're probably waiting for a data/ministry deal or something. which means we'll have to wait another year for a proper release.