funky house sceptics, let me draw your attention to this

Well, beyond the fact that you might need to accept that not everyone loves funky in its entirety and as wholeheartedly as you

I do! All I'm saying is, people should say "I'm not so into funky" rather than tying themselves into knots redefining it into something they can like, or pretending that they do like funky, really, just not the lightweight stuff that deserves to be dismissed.

If you're a writer who lives in Australia, then naturally what you want is to hear music that excites you more than pretty much all other genres. However if you're a producer or DJ in London, your needs aren't the same. Core pillars of the nuum are ownership and the power to change yet if you're Untold or Shortstuff, "owning" or properly participating in UK funky is less of an option than if you're Marcus Nasty or Supa D, because there are cultural barriers that inhibit or at least slow down this dialog, ie if you're not from the ends, you're not from the ends, and the ends invented and owns UK funky.

Yes, I get this. Again, I'm not complaining about Untold or Shortstuff - who both make pretty great music. I'm questioning the erasure of any stylistic distinction between them and Supa D by people talking about funky.

Much of this 130 funky-inspired music of oneman, bok bok, me n dusk, kode9, needs to be seen in this context, and I think its healthy that there's a musical dialog going on, primarily through Rinse, and yet also inevitable that it will be two parallel paths rather thanone big whole, due to the nature of the backgrounds of the two groups.

I agree with this. The only point I'm making is the one you make right here. In fact I challenge anyone to point to somewhere where I've even rubbished OneMan, Bok Bok etc. except saying that I thought the Bok Bok/L-Vis Night Slugs 2009 Dubs set was a bit drab.

Much of the discussion around funky-influenced ex-dubsteppers like oneman should be far more of a reflection of the state of dubstep now (narrow in breadth and universally noisy and rigid) than the state of UK funky.

Totally agree with this also.

Finally Tim, you need to let that XLR8R feature go. I was asked to do it, turned it down and sent them your name. I don’t know why you didn’t end up writing it but it’s clearly ignorant and over-reaches itself, rise above it fella!

I'm quoting from the Urb piece now Martin. It's more difficult to rise above when people keep making the same mistake over and over again. And as I've said before I appreciate you putting my name down, even if on paper it appears even more counter-intuitive!

Oh I see how you misread me now Martin - my comment about the toolbox perspective wasn't meant to refer to DJs and producers like Shortstuff - more other listeners who say "I'm not so into listening to funky on its own." Obv your point about producers and DJs having less freedom in that regard than listeners is totally correct.

Generally speaking, I think people here imagine I'm making much more controversial claims than I am in fact making.

And really, if people aren't prepared to make the investment of listening to radio sets and the like, then they're... not doing anything wrong obviously, but they're missing out on the most exciting music in the world. Keeping up with funky is a hell of a lot easier than keeping up with any of its 90s equivs would have been - as I think my example demonstrates to the point of excess.

Anyway, fabulous Ill Blu BBC set from last month here:

http://dunknowdablogspot.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/01-ill-blu-mix-bbc-1xtra-16th-dec-09.mp3

'truthful' is a great track. i wouldnt sign up for the uk funky branch davidians just yet though....

this post amused me:
http://www.dissensus.com//showthread.php?10353-New-Dancehall-mix-by-Unknown-Soulja&p=218091#post218091
i will say this... its much more worthwhile for you to download this mix than the 100000th amateur mashing together of the same old boring tunes that people keep doing. one token funky tune, some shit dubstep, some stupid 'wonky' and a token grime track.
those mixes are boring. that bollocks needs to stop now. this one is better. happy now U.S?

I don't see why it has to stop more than anything else. Yeah, that guy luka is a bit of cock.

i thought he was kina otm tbh. i was listening to that recent ish rankin set with seb chu where rankin was mcing over a load of diff stuff from old ukg to trudgestep and some other 'eclectic' bits and while it was cool to hear rankin on some other styles, it wasnt nearly as fun as when marcus is backing him. though that might be to do with seb chu rather than anything else. i wouldnt mind hearing oneman do some sets with more mcs just so see how the vibe flows.

Well, Luka never liked dubstep in any form whatsoever.

So if he thinks that dubstep is garbage, I could see where that would lead him to hate on eclecticism that revolves around dubstep with some token grime and funky thrown in.

I'm totally with Tim when he says that there is a very clear difference between mainstream Funky and between the whole Notts style, even if that difference is primarily in its audience and not necessarily in the music. But I live far far way from LDN, so how would I know for certain?

Notts style? what like spamfoot n littechop?

Its what Boomkat has been calling Shortstuff and Brackles.

Call it whatever you like, I don't care.

I'll think you'll find that out of the people who post on this thread I'm not one of the ones who has any financial interest in it. I don't write for any zines, work for any shops, or say own a successful label.

And that wasn't a dig at Luka, he doesn't like dubstep, its not a negative character trait its just his taste. Now I'm going to stay out of this thread, and Dissensus.

i dont have any financial interest in funky either. fwiw. but my mates dont write for fact, run night slugs or anything like that, i dont run fact, nor night slugs, or write for urb or whoever. id like to though. wouldnt mind a record label either. labels holler at a poster.

webzine owners too for that matter lol.

i thought he was kina otm tbh. i was listening to that recent ish rankin set with seb chu where rankin was mcing over a load of diff stuff from old ukg to trudgestep and some other 'eclectic' bits and while it was cool to hear rankin on some other styles, it wasnt nearly as fun as when marcus is backing him. though that might be to do with seb chu rather than anything else. i wouldnt mind hearing oneman do some sets with more mcs just so see how the vibe flows.

I think this was maybe Seb Chu more than anything else - a bit disappointing as I think he's an amazing producer ("You Got Me" 4 eva!).

Illmanna & Oziah ft. Doctor - Wind For Me

Banger.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/9706r8

Ach, if you're around:

You know that track you snipped back in July and asked if it was Devine Collective's "Gotta Have It"? Well, right group wrong track, it's actually called "Night Train".

<quote>"...because there are cultural barriers that inhibit or at least slow down this dialog, ie if you're not from the ends, you're not from the ends, and the ends invented and owns UK funky" - martin clark </quote>

not too sure where the ends is but whats some of these cultural barriers ?

TFL mainly.

huh ?

"not too sure where the ends is but whats some of these cultural barriers"

the barrier of class.

so shortstuff and untold are upper/middle class and marcus nasty and supa d are?...underclass who own funky cos they're from the ends where ever that is, but i'll assume it's some shithole in london ?

sorry, but i just dont get it.

"Much of this 130 funky-inspired music of oneman, bok bok, me n dusk, kode9, needs to be seen in this context, and I think its healthy that there's a musical dialog going on, and yet also inevitable that it will be two parallel paths rather than one big whole, due to the nature of the backgrounds of the two groups."

...or by class/culture/backgrounds and the parallel paths do you mean race and the dialogue is the reappproriation of the 'sounds of the street'(black) and gentrifying them for the middle class(white) hipsters ?

seems you're doing the same thing to funky as you did to dubstep. localising and claiming ownership over a sound as with the croydon mob, narrowly defining it within the 'nuum, then cloning an inferior/whiter version of it and claiming it as true to the ideal while dissing others who do exactly the same.

i dont really care about whos upper class or not. im more interested in whos making weak, deficient, near insipid versions of this stuff and getting all the attention.

but good points there its all about face.

@ (its all about face)

Is inspiration always appropriative or only when the inspired person is white and middle class? Is it different for a white middle class producer to be inspired by something as opposed to a white middle class journalist? Both may make some money or at least cultural capital out of the inspiration/appropriation, but as this debate seems to be about an alleged lack of recognition for funky artists making 'better' music, then surely both are helping increase awareness of the sound. Can you imagine what harder task Tim would have flying the flag for the likes of Ill Blu etc. if FACT mag hadnt given some coverage to some of the funky producers and DJs that appeal to their taste like Roska. I mean, it is conceivable, that with good reason many people could find Roska and co. better than Ill Blu. Is there something wrong with that apart from not sharing that musical preference?

black once again with the ill behaviour/Dubmugga, if you're gonna troll, at least have the balls to log in with your real name.

i'm not trolling and what difference does posting under a real name make ? forget the bulshit and just expand on your 'parallel paths and differing backgrounds in a class barrier context as it relates to funky

oh and on a personal note, please stop making weak, deficient, near insipid versions of this stuff and getting all the attention and pass the message onto kode9 and grievous angel as well...ta:)

FWIW titchy...i too dont give a shit about the upperclasses making music as long as its good.

"Is it different for a white middle class producer to be inspired by something as opposed to a white middle class journalist? "

if it makes it harder for the real innovators to shine cos some privileged journo decides to become a producer and clone whatevers flavour of the month sound, then yeah. and by privileged i mean the position of being a music journo as opposed to not having an underclass background.

whats with the ugly trend of 'journos turn producer and pimp themselves and their mates in some closed loop' anyway ? journos making the news instead of just reporting it.

in his defence, grevious angel is an amazing dj (dubstep sufferah mixes are just sublime and better than a lot of the DSAS cds tbh). i like kode 9 best as a dj too.

@ its all about face

I'd be interested to hear which former journo has 'cloned' funky without adding something (for better or worse).

hes talking about martin clarke clearly. although he makes dubstep so its not really justified.
to the person calling me a cock, i might be a cock but it would be more appropriate to say so on the thread in question.
cheers
luka

http://vulive.co.uk/content/2009/12/03/weeksey-and-bandit-13-november-2009/

@Martinclark I think claims of using a 'real name' and trolling are a bit weak. Sure, I don't agree with the extremity of these posts by 'it's all about face', but clearly you're raising some issues here that aren't so easily dismissed now that they're put them on the table.

There seems to be this idea in your post that UK Funky be understood in a way that allows everyone to participate in some kind of broader collective project, but just as you recommend that Tim accept that not everyone enjoys Funky so wholeheartedly, maybe you need to also accept that not everyone feels the need to acknowledge an idea of UK Bass that allows for the greater health of some kind of free-for-all - in this case, a scene becomes more like a non-scene in your definition, defining it so inclusively as to completely efface whatever barriers you simultaneously acknowledge as making a difference (surely, the situation of defining Funky is more complicated than 'being from the ends' anyway?).

I guess one thing I can take away from Funky is that it does seem to be music that people actually have opinions about, which is really something exciting in itself.

I'm also with Tim that the majority of journalism on Funky is mediocre at best, and downright offensive at worse. Though it should be said that journalism in any form is never a non-innocent activity of simply celebrating great music.

"hes talking about martin clarke clearly. although he makes dubstep so its not really justified."

"Much of this 130 funky-inspired music of oneman, bok bok, ME n dusk, kode9, needs to be seen in this context," - martin clark

...somewhat justified and perhaps journo doesnt quite cover what kode9 and grievous do but their funky inspired music is to say the least, a bit lack lustre.

without getting into a dubstep vs funky argument. in all genres, you can look for the universally noisy/rigid (whatever that means) and find it, but to lump the rest in as representative of the wider genre is doing it a disservice. regarding the narrow breadth, if you take out the standard galloping bashy like funky beat there really isnt much left.

@ its all about face

>without getting into a dubstep vs funky argument. in all genres, you can look for the universally >noisy/rigid (whatever that means) and find it, but to lump the rest in as representative of the >wider genre is doing it a disservice. regarding the narrow breadth, if you take out the standard >galloping bashy like funky beat there really isnt much left.

yeah, whatever that means.

hes saying you can disregard the 'main' of the music but thats ultimately what makes it what it is. i think.

oh yeah jon b...youre a cock

funky house lovers let me draw your attention to this:

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc30/bobotronic/FLYERS/SAHOUSE_EP_front.jpg
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc30/bobotronic/FLYERS/SAHOUSE_EP_back.jpg

available on itunes now.

"hes saying you can disregard the 'main' of the music but thats ultimately what makes it what it is. i think."

what i'm saying is martin clark is full of shit, makes shit tunes, argues shit points and is a cock who backtracks and wimps out when his card is pulled.

but as this debate seems to be about an alleged lack of recognition for funky artists making 'better' music, then surely both are helping increase awareness of the sound. Can you imagine what harder task Tim would have flying the flag for the likes of Ill Blu etc. if FACT mag hadnt given some coverage to some of the funky producers and DJs that appeal to their taste like Roska. I mean, it is conceivable, that with good reason many people could find Roska and co. better than Ill Blu. Is there something wrong with that apart from not sharing that musical preference?

Again Jon, my issue is not with Roska/Scratcha/Cooly getting coverage. I said this on Dissensus about the Urb article, which may assist you to get what i'm trying to say and not misconstrue me - this is the last thing I'll say on the topic (until the next bad article comes along):

...And of course (Scratcha's) own stuff deserves attention - I thought "Hard House" was one of the best funky tracks of last year (shame it's not on the mini-mix).

What bugged me was the writer feeling it was necessary to say this:

"Overall, it’s been tough to gauge a concrete grasp of what’s artistically and creatively fruitful in the genre of UK Funky. However, certain DJs and producers are giving the genre a backbone along with the pop cheese. Producers like Roska (or Mentor Roska, as he’s affectionally referred to), Cooly G, and Geeneus have all been pivotal in the shake-up of UK Funky, providing intrigue, depth, and necessary weight to a genre dominated by percussion and diva vocals."

Quite oddly, the writer half-admits that (s)he is finding it difficult to follow funky, but then blithely commits to the argument that these four producers must be the people offering "backbone", "intrigue", "depth" and "necessary weight" to balance out what (s)he describes as "pop cheese".

Why would a writer who is probably rather aware of the superficiality of their familiarity with a scene still feel compelled to big up the artists they like at the expense of the genre at large?

The short answer is probably that XLR8R said so.

The longer answer is: Because this is how rock criticism and dance criticism is structured for the most part. We love our iconoclasts. We like the idea that the artists we check for are bold, brave, questing individuals who rebel against and transcend the (insert phrase to describe the irredeemable unadventurousness and lightweightness of their host scene - hey, "pop cheese" will do!) of their parent genre.

And we proceed to apply these structures of judgment even when we half-know we really have no idea what we're talking about.

Well, "we" do this.

This is something I'm fairly aware of in writing, and for all my kvetching here, for all the times I've been told I'm miserly or curmudgeonly, I think I'm pretty careful to write about given artists in a way that talks positively about their relationship to their genre, both in terms of points-of-similarity and points-of-difference.

Really any producer who is worth their salt and who amasses a decent number of ace tracks will not be able to be reduced to being merely an expression of genre - not legitimately anyway. So of course there's a role in criticism highlighting this, saying "look what Scratcha or Roska or Mad.One or Scotty D or Royal P or whoever does which is novel and distinct and exciting."

But I wish this was done in the context of a spirit of listening that thought "isn't this great that funky has so many talented and unique producers like this" rather than "what a relief that this iconoclastic producer is here to save us from having to listen to other funky..."

Fair enough Tim, that clarification makes alot of sense. I was just concerned that producers on the periphery of the mainstream of funky were getting slagged off just because they seemed to be receiving most of the tiny bit of coverage funky is getting. In herd-like fashion, I can already see the forum sheep turning on them, e.g. Roska, here and on dissensus as if they are guilty of tricking the media and hogging all the limelight, which clearly isn't the case, whether you like his tunes or not.

@ Luka, sorry for that mistargeted 'cock', I clearly should have aimed it at 'its all about cock face'.

its all right... dont mind a bit of abuse

zoom, I can't find the Aoybaness! on iTunes. What should I be searching for?

clearly jon, you should just shut the fuck up and not throw insults around at all, unless thrown at you first...you cock

martin and i have been trading them for probably about 5 or 6 years now. it's how we do:)

the thing with funky is. if you take away its signifying back beat what are you left with ?

kinda like 2 step without the 2 step beat is not 2 step or house without the 4 on the floor kicks is not house.

unlike dubstep where there is more to it than just it's half step canon

i just see funky as a fad with no real long term potential

did that ill blu aaliyah remix ever get released officially/unofficially? only have it on an old marcus set. would love to have it on its own.

"if you take away its signifying back beat what are you left with ?"

same with dubstep and bass. i mean, ok, its proven you can do that. but why would you want to? most of these scenes are best when there is some uniform element to them with a degree of elasticity to it. obv that means you just have to love that one uniform element a LOT, but once those things go, they lose identity. dubstep included.

rennavate, sorry i guess it's not exactly available just yet... i'm getting it sorted right now will get back to you.

and now we have a problem with the cover for the official album (small on the back of the EP): peeps and artists in SA hate it. they say it's a photo of a ghetto street with garbage n shit, while what they like is the bling... but no wetern electronic music lover is going to buy something with cheesy people in haute couture looking slick on the cover with gothic type... oh boy.

did that ill blu aaliyah remix ever get released officially/unofficially? only have it on an old marcus set. would love to have it on its own.

it's in the You, Tim, 2009 thread.

Does anyone want to mention how cheap and awful these songs sound when the producer has his name repeated over and over? Roska, Ill Blu, take your lashings!

Ha, I think that's precisely backwards actually. I love the producer signatures.

I find it to be really cheap and tacky. If your music is good enough, you don't need to chat your name all over it for people to know who did it. Let's hope Burial does some shout-outs on his next album then eh?

Yes the most important issue here is whether Burial gets inspired i guess. ;-)

Anyway the whole point of these signature tags is the way in which they're positioned, usually at the beginning of the first drop (particularly Ill Blu and Funkystepz, less so Roska but usually him as well) to let you know big things are about to happen.

It's the pleasure of its combination of expectation and shock, like unwrapping a birthday present.