Do we have a PAZZ AND JOB 2009 thread yet?

the thing is I don't think fans of fey wimpy indie or ugly nasty noisy indie are underserved, but there's not a lot of middle ground, bands that play loud aggressive music but still write solid pop songs (or maybe there are and I haven't heard them, but I'm thinking in the tradition of the Replacements or, like, Superchunk). or there are, but they're just not considered part of the indie clubhouse anymore, which is why I find myself listening to a lot of super uncool stuff like Paramore and Fall Out Boy.

there's always Kanye

woooo!

bands that play loud aggressive music but still write solid pop songs

this is why i <3 torche

people don't look for a way in to the hardcore nether regions past the age of 20 in most cases. but older nerds have definitely been looking for ways to crack metal codes and learn about the stuff and listen to things they never would have been listening to a couple years ago.

x-post

the thing is I don't think fans of fey wimpy indie or ugly nasty noisy indie are underserved, but there's not a lot of middle ground, bands that play loud aggressive music but still write solid pop songs (or maybe there are and I haven't heard them, but I'm thinking in the tradition of the Replacements or, like, Superchunk). or there are, but they're just not considered part of the indie clubhouse anymore, which is why I find myself listening to a lot of super uncool stuff like Paramore and Fall Out Boy.

I sort of feel like the commercial success of Green Day ushered all of those bands out of indie and directly into the mainstream.

xpost

yeah skot but there's plenty of bands in those threads that, in the 90s, would have just been called indie rock before indie was strictly made for VW ads and pussies

also, i've been a fly on the wall on like everyone of these pazz and jop polls and every single one has been non stop bitching about how bad it was iirc

except that one year when matos organized a rebel alliance and did that other one and like three rap records placed higher than on pazz and jop and it was a paradigm shift or some shit

also xpost

man superchunk i fuckin' loved that band.

loud aggressive pop music that's critically allowed is just a subset of rap now, tbh

(Totally, Que, "music!" But my point is that when we talk about taste categories like genres, or "what critics tend to like," or "what indie fans listen to," it's REALLY slippery -- it's easy to come up with perfectly coherent clusters of taste that confuse all those distinctions and divisions. Like I'm sure there are some people who'd describe those acts as "critic's darlings" and others who'd describe them as "indie favorites" and others who'd say that's, like, some pop acts, some dance acts, some r&b acts, etc. So you have to be a little wary of claims like "critics always love X" if your definition of X is "things critics like," you know?)

scott s otm, btw, totally -- I mean lots of indie fans have very clearly skewed toward metal or noise or danceability as nice-guy indie-rock has gotten more mainstream and calcified, absolutely. this polarizing effect has opened up a middle ground, yes, and the good thing about it is that the center is wide open for something new, I think.

bands that play loud aggressive music but still write solid pop songs

No Age!

i mean even stuff that seemed kinda twee back in the day like beat happening and unrest seems like serious real talk compared to all these fleet foxes etc

bands that play loud aggressive music but still write solid pop songs AND HAD GOOD DRUMMERS

No Age!

― I'm bored, I think I'll become a beatnik (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:33 PM (31 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

glad pining for macho attitiude arrived on this thread--didn't even need a chuck post!

But my point is that when we talk about taste categories like genres, or "what critics tend to like," or "what indie fans listen to," it's REALLY slippery --

yah totally, i getchoo. and that's why i try to avoid any discussion about genres and stuff, i mean, who cares, really, except critics? i mean, isn't liking music enough sometimes?

all the nu lo fi shit is too damn rickety little engine that could and less jet plane takeoff

call all destroyer,

i don't consider superchunk or archers of loaf or jawbox super "macho"...shellac and JL and big black and amp rep yeah, but not what some dude was talking about (whiney was on some other shit)

how does the fader stay afloat? i mean i know they're funded by a promo company or w/e it is but... they still put out issues with lil boosie or busy signal or miles benjamin anthony on the cover

yeah, superchunk! great band. and now the drummer from Superchunk is playing in a band that started out with a dude & his acoustic guitar & a boombox.

(and yeah he plays with other bands, too, but still.)

yeah, and there's 2 covers, and there's usually an indie rock band on the other cover xpost

serious question: how did brokencyde/crabcore fare in the pazz and jopp poll?

xpost

his true calling now is philly boy roy

also is crabcore = indie?

fader makes all their money doing a billion othr things, mag is just branding, doy

yeah matt obv those first three you mentioned don't really fit that rubric and I don't see THAT much difference between them and a lot of stuff that is decried today. as for shellac, af

oops! as for shellac and amrep, I guess I just don't see a pressing need for that to come back

yeah matt obv those first three you mentioned don't really fit that rubric and I don't see THAT much difference between them and a lot of stuff that is decried today. as for shellac, af

― call all destroyer, Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:42 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

the difference is rocking IMO and drummers that hit hard, which means a lot to me

am rep had some good shit but lots of bad (god knows i lived in mpls in the 90s)

shellac never left! and i just saw arcwelder like 2 weeks ago

i miss some of it

the nu-pigfuck

^there ya go

Man, I've erased about three or four different posts about how I had no use for aggressive indie rawk in the '90s -- be it the Jesus Lizard or Archers of Loaf -- but I fear I'm just being dismissive.

except that one year when matos organized a rebel alliance and did that other one and like three rap records placed higher than on pazz and jop and it was a paradigm shift or some shit

hahahaha I fucking wish

c'mon DUDE

*blasts "smallpox champion"*

*rocks out*

FYI, from the Awl: "People on the Internet Like to Argue About Music More Than They Like to Enjoy Music": Maura Johnston and Seth Colter Walls on Genre, 2009 and Pazz + Jop"

http://www.theawl.com/2010/01/people-on-the-internet-like-to-argue-about-music-more-than-they-like-to-enjoy-music-maura-johnston-and-seth-colter-walls-on-genre-2009-and-pazz-jop

(smallpox champion to jaymc)

(also matos just goofing come back to city pages they need u like a mutha, k thx!)

pining for macho attitiude arrived on this thread--didn't even need a chuck post!

Ha ha I thought Superchunk sounded pretty wussy back in the early '90s (and Torche are way too Foo Fighters for me), so I'll stay out of this.

but wait i'm enjoying music while i argue about music! i can do two and even sometimes three things at once.

xp But anyway, people should really check out Meercaz and Okie Dokie, who I namedropped in a Pazz & Jop essay once. (And I still think Red Swan and Drunk Horse might've made my favorite indie rock albums of the '00s, but I'm weird.)

Not that I'm unproud of the polls I did (not that you can fucking FIND them anymore, thanks a lot Gawker Media/Buzznet), but the differences weren't especially big between them and P&J, results-wise. Though they did exist, as I've talked about on other threads. Nevertheless, my dreams of an alternative poll with a big list of voters + a rather different p.o.v. didn't exactly come to pass. Harvilla and Baron do good work, esp. this year, under the drastically reduced circumstances (meaning manpower) at the Voice compared to when I'd come in and count ballots in '02-'03. (The biggest reason I stopped after two was that I had almost literally no help.) Which is why I just shake my head and chuckle sadly about all the "Let's change the whole thing!" posts I see here. Good luck. (mega xposts)

xp Not counting the Gore Gore Girls obv

(Stopped after two Idolator polls, not counting-ballots-at-the-Voice, just in case that was unclear.)

i did see drink horse play once; they kicked ass. superchunk never seemed to really rock hard to me, tho i never investigated them thoroughly

(smallpox champion to jaymc)

Haha. Actually, I've never minded Fugazi too much. Liked their last two albums quite a bit, in fact -- although that's mostly because they felt more expansive and moody and musically varied than the earlier stuff.

smallpox champion is a jam and a half btw

superchunk never seemed to really rock hard to me, tho i never investigated them thoroughly

their records from foolish on are more restrained than the first few, but live they always stepped on the gas real hard

Also, fwiw, my favorite album of 2009 was probably Dananananaykroyd's Hey Everybody!, and that sounds an awful lot like Fugazi in places. Sometimes it surprises me how much I like it, actually, considering there's actual screaming on the album -- but there's also big melodies and infectious jazzy guitar riffs.

i've been on a bit of chavez kick lately

xp And who knows, maybe I also like it in part because I'm not listening to a whole lot else like it. Maybe I'd like the Future of the Left album, too, if I weren't scared by it.

Harvilla and Baron do good work, esp. this year, under the drastically reduced circumstances (meaning manpower)

I agree, but damn do I wish I had Glenn McDonald to help me out when I was there. As far as I can tell, he does the work of 20 interns in a tenth of the time!

Ha, I bought a Chavez album in 1996 or '97 and sold it like a week later.

Glenn rules
xp

wait you're scared of music jaymc?

i would probably check out Dananananaykroyd based on jaymc's description if i wasn't scared of indie bands with stupid names that riff on the names of celebrities