"Born to Run" by Bruce Springsteen -- who really enjoys this overproduced crappy glop?

not P and not Q implies probably not R

which is not equivalent to
P and Q implies R

Yeah, I'd say the music on "Darkness" is definitely much simpler than Bruce's earlier stuff. That perhaps explains why all those '78 shows are the stuff of legend. When I last saw Sleater-Kinney cover "The Promised Land," they joked that there are always three or so guys in the crowd who just go nuts and sing along. That's the power of the Bruce-asaurus.

You know, so much of the Bruce hate (or what little there actually is on this thread) no doubt stems from his massive '80s popularity/overexposure. But this is a dude who released five albums before he had a top 40 hit, and even then he followed "The River" with "Nebraska!" That's something. A lot of that "Nebraska" stuff made it into those "Born in the USA" shows in one way or another. As did "Trapped" and "War." Bruce's speachifying about "blind faith will get you killed" before "War" on the "Live" album gives me chills.

Also, not that it's worth very much, but when Peter Buck and Mike Mills joined the E. Street Band to play "Born to Run" at one of those Vote for Change shows last year, they were going nuts, like a couple of excited teenagers.

Anyway, love the guy, and love the fact that even his unreleased stuff is good. Anyone ever heard "The Klansman?" That's some spooky shit.

point taken and agreed with, but just for the historical record, note that his bossness had top 40 hits on album #3 ("born to run," #23) and album #4 ("prove it all night," #33).

i'm also not entirely sure that whatever bruce hate there is stems from his '80s massiveness, inasmuch as the songs the bruce haters around here tend to admit liking are "hungry heart," "dancing in the dark," "i'm on fire" and "brilliant disguise," all from his '80s pop star phase. it's bruce the cult star, not bruce the pop star, that seems to piss them off.

for whatever that's worth.

Rolling Stones - Start Me Up, Jumpin' Jack Flash
Jimmy Buffet - Margaritaville
Sister Sledge - We Are family
Van Morrison - Brown-Eyed Girl
The Police - Roxanne
Steppenwolf - Born To Be Wild
Led Zeppelin - Stairway To Heaven, Rock-n-Roll
Kool & the Gang - Celebration
Dexy's Midnight Runners - Come On Eileen
Lynyrd Skynyrd - Free Bird & Sweet Home Alabama
Queen - We Will Rock You/We Are The Champions & Bohemian Rhapsody
Roy Orbison - Pretty Woman
George Thorogood - Bad To The Bone
Jimi Hendrix - Purple Haze, Hey Joe, Foxey Lady
Don Henley - Boys Of Summer
Sister Sledge - We Are Family
Derek & The Dominoes - Layla
Bachman Turner Overdrive - Takin' Care Of Business
The Clash - Should I Stay Or Should I Go
Dire Straits - Sultans Of Swing
All covers and remixes of the above songs

Wow Paul. This list is totally OTM, except I still like Roxanne.

I gotta be honest, that always sounded pretty lame to me whenever I saw the video.

-- Chuck's right about the Suicide influence on Nebraska, Springsteen's said that himself.

-- The Phil Spector mention is likewise OTM. That was the whole production inspiration for Born to Run in particular, 64 tracks (4 layered on each of 16), the Wall of Sound thing. Calling it overproduced is a little like calling a Hummer too big: It's true, but that's the whole point. (Not that that means anyone has to like it.)

-- When I was about 16, my parents decided to get rid of the wallpaper in the main bathroom and repaint the walls. First we had to strip the old paper, then for some reason there was some interim period before we painted. For that week or so, my parents told me and my sister we could write whatever we wanted on the exposed walls, because it would all be covered up anyway. We both spent a few hours amusing ourselves with magic markers, but the only thing I remember is that my sister (who was in the midst of a Springsteen craze) scrawled
In the day we sweat it out in the streets of a runaway American dream
At night we ride through mansions of glory in suicide machines
Sprung from cages out on highway 9,
Chrome wheeled, fuel injected
and steppin' out over the line.
My parents sold the house, but I like to think that's still under the paint somewhere. And it's what the song always makes me think of.

(Alex in NYC will be glad to know my sister soon moved on to The Psychedelic Furs and walked around our high school in a trench coat painted with the lyrics to "Imitation of Christ.")

*reassuringly*

I understand. It's kindof like a menstrual cycle thing, isn't it? And hey, I'm hungry anyway. Do you taste anything like salad?

"I wanted to make a record that would sound like Phil Spector. I wanted to write words like Dylan. I wanted my guitar to sound like Duane Eddy"

jim, doesn't he also mention singing like Roy Orbison in this series?

I always though that hearing him talk like this helped me get a handle on the BTR album and the rock-and-roll as opposed to rock (and I might argue their was something rock-and-roll about mid-sixties Dylan) elements in it. Also, compare his unironic (in the good sense) and at the same time unnaive use of these elements to the 50s pastiches of his opposite number on Long Island, Billy Joel.

see: Gerry Rafferty, Quaterflash, Men at Work, Supertramp

Huh, the sax breaks on Breakfast in America strike me as the biggest obstacle to the generally excellent songs (also some of the keyboard sounds). I prefer the sound of "School" and "Hide In Your Shell" (Do I hear Theremins in the background of the chorus?).

My point was actually the opposite. Someone who genuinely can't find anything of value in the entire Motown catalog really shouldn't be worrying about Bruce Springsteen as his has much bigger problems to conquer.

and this will sound like a backhanded compliment, but it sort of makes me think of his dislike for bruce (who i also adore as you all know) and others in a new light, makes me respect it more, for i feel more certain that it's totally sincere and not knee-jerk.

anyway i hope he doesn't react negatively to this because--perhaps it's somewhat mysterious why--my respect for alex just jumped up several notches.

Now occurs to me that most of the hard saxophone references were in slightly outside or arty contexts, so still don't have too many examples. Sonics good example though. I should probably drop this.

I'm curious how many people who don't like Bruce have been converted by seeing him live? Or perhaps the opposite scenario?

rolling stones, "happy"
rolling stones, "tumbling dice"
little willie john, "i'm shakin"

Is there a sax on "Rocks Off"?

But I harbor a nostalgic fondness for "Who Can it Be Now?" and thus we may have a winner in Men at Work.

(The corollary, however, is that I expect that Alex in NYC would Springsteen's British equivalent, if such a freak-of-nature existed.)

Just wanted to see that phrase again.

Rigorous scientific studies have determined that the right amount of glockenspiel is 23.7 milliglockens. Any less or more is, well, wrong.

Or "I've got a fever and the only prescription is... more glockenspiel!"

And if we're still talking saxophones, a special mention to Gil Bernal, whose slapstick-funny solos enlivened the early Coasters (and Robins) records. My favourite rock and roll sax playing on any non-Fun House record.

Love those Glockenspiel wisecracks! Now try "flugelhorn" or "BigMuff".

xpost.. (Ken L is one of my favorite ILM posters these days...)

Thanks, Dave. I hope you didn't read the rest of my posts to this thread. I think we first crossed paths with
this post

Elvis Costello, maybe, if you really want to stretch things ("British" possibly encompassing different ideas of fashion, pop romanticism, mixed-up-kid sentiment and bitterness). Or, for one album, the Clash ("The Card Cheat", anyone?)

- Yeah, i've heard that there's a huge amount of mutual love between Suicide and Springsteen...somewhat inexplicably. On an entirely unrelated note, I've read that the intro to "With Or Without You" by U2 is modelled after the intro to "Cheree" by Suicide.

- Why do I dislike Motown (I'd prefer not to waste the word "hate" on Motown. I don't think Berry Gordy et al. should be viciously maimed or anything, I just don't like the music). I don't know. Perhaps it's because it's so "steadfastly cannonical" (though, admittedly, I do have a great amount of love for certain other music that is equally cannonized, so go know). It just doesn't speak to me. Maybe it's "The Big Chill"'s fault. Whatever. Smokey Robinson's never done anything for me. I loathe everything about Dianna Ross. I suppose the Temptations were alright, but nothing I'd ever get excited about. Marvin Gaye is probably the only artist on the roster I'd ever actively choose to listen to (or, more likely, the one Motown artist I wouldn't actively turn off.) It's just not my music, that's all.

- This morning, the Springsteen tune in question -- as Q104 apparently must play at least one Bruce track every morning -- was "Thunder Road," the opening piano & harmonica intro of which made me sigh balefully.

The corollary, however, is that I expect that Alex in NYC would Springsteen's British equivalent, if such a freak-of-nature existed

Billy Bragg maybe? Yeah, he's alright....a bit more restrained in the studio than Bruce.

Sax solos I don't mind:
- "Urgent" by Foreigner
- "A Night Like This" by the Cure
- various bits of Wish You Were Here and Dark Side.. by the `Floyd
- Anything/everything by James Chance

WA-UH-EH-OH-EH-OO-OH!