TS: Depeche Mode vs. New Order vs. Pet Shop Boys

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I kind of don't see why "Krafty" gets singled out for rapturous melodic praise when the verse doesn't move away from the first three notes of "Three Blind Mice"

I don't know about rapturous praise; I argued that you can't separate the lyrics from the wonderful melody.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

xpost - I dunno Dan. I've loved Tinderbox, Kaleidoscope, JuJu etc since they all came out. It's true though that The Scream is the best.

That's not to say that I didn't say that. I do talk bollocks as you know.

Dr.C, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

See also on ILM:

Taking Sides: Pet Shop Boys vs. New Order
Taking Sides: Pet Shop Boys vs. New Order

(circa 2004)

stephen, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 16:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

New Order, on the other hand, were as good in 05 as a band as they've ever been live.

The New Order live DVD from like 2001 is absolutely embarrassing. The performances from the early '80s are great. I don't want to see Hooky and Bernard "rocking out."

Curt1s Stephens, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 18:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

New Order's peaks are higher, PSBs more consistent. Both amongst the greats.

As for DM, until I got the internet I had no idea anyone actually liked them anymore. I'm guessing that none of the fans above are from the UK, too portentous to be taken seriously at home. ("Just can't get enough" was good though).

bidfurd, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 21:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

too portentous to be taken seriously at home

You people love Coldplay. Gimme a better excuse.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:00 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm guessing that none of the fans above are from the UK, too portentous to be taken seriously at home

i am an out-and-proud UK DM fan.

grimly fiendish, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:02 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm guessing that none of the fans above are from the UK, too portentous to be taken seriously at home.

Why won't people let the "portentous American" stereotype die?

John Justen, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm surprised so many people dislike Depeche Mode and/or think they're goth.

Curt1s Stephens, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

("Just can't get enough" was good though).

a friend of mine, a brit who has been a DM fan since back in the day, switched this song off in disgust when we were driving once. i was surprised by extreme dislike of that particular song.

Gukbe, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

but that's a great song :-(

stephen, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:40 (7 years ago) Permalink

i'm going to try to put something in Dan's head

omar little, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

ALL DAY ALL DAY
ALL DAY ALL DAY

omar little, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

(all day, all day) watch them all fall down
(all day, all day) domino dancing
(all day, all day) watch them all fall down
(all day, all day) domino dancing

omar little, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

omar little would like the pet shop boys. teh gay.

Gukbe, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

o indeed

omar little, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 22:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

"West End Girls" alone is better than anything DM or NO have ever done, so the Pets of course. New Order have a couple of tracks that are ALMOST as good though. So for me it's

PSB>NO>>>DM

daavid, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 23:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

ALL DAY ALL DAY
ALL DAY ALL DAY

-- omar little, Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:46 PM (36 minutes ago)

I thought you were going for the Ministry angle w/that one.

John Justen, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 23:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

Hahaha

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 23:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

"Domino Dancing" is great, fuck the haters

Curt1s Stephens, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 23:49 (7 years ago) Permalink

grimly aside DM, post-vince c anyway, does seem to be an american thing, bidfurd otm.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 1 November 2007 00:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

nonsense

ledge, Thursday, 1 November 2007 00:20 (6 years ago) Permalink

i'm just talking from experience. the only anglo DM fan i ever met was a goth.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 1 November 2007 00:22 (6 years ago) Permalink

DM, post-vince c anyway, does seem to be an american thing, bidfurd otm.

I would like to call your attention to this Wikipedia page on Depeche Mode's discography where among other things all the UK chart placements for albums and singles are noted.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 1 November 2007 00:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

hahahahahahahaha well thats pretty conclusive i think.

John Justen, Thursday, 1 November 2007 01:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

Regarding DM I think this it's Vince's exit that is the turning point regarding UK (or Europe in its entirety) vs. US.

Generally, the US started to pick up on Depeche Mode around the "Music For The Masses" album, which was about the time they became more "rock'n'roll" in their sound ("Music For The Masses" doesn't contain any guitars from my knowledge, but more live sounding sounds, like a lot of piano presets, for instance). Also, around this time they started working with Anton Corbijn, and he played an important part in helping them get a "darker" and more "serious" visual image, which means they were easier to take seriously from a "rockist" point of view. The fact that there wasn't really something called "synthpop" anymore may also have helped them, as that meant they weren't lumped with a bunch of bands they had little in common with anymore.

Musically, the Depeche Mode of "Violator" isn't too different from the Depeche Mode of "Some Great Reward" though. It's all about sampling, lots of metallic sounds, and the somewhat dark minor-key atmosphere that some goths consider goth enough to like. And apart from their U2/NIN-wannabe album SOFAD, this is roughly where they have been staying musically ever since "Construction Time Again" in 1983.

Geir Hongro, Thursday, 1 November 2007 02:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

DM is so good. better than NO who are next. i love me some NO but not like i love DM. DM had at least 7 great albums or so. PSB are okay, but nothing to write home about. give me the remix album and thats all i need. come to think of it, thats all i own by them!

pipecock, Thursday, 1 November 2007 02:29 (6 years ago) Permalink

really?? of any potential PSB album...a remix album?

damn.

stephen, Thursday, 1 November 2007 02:33 (6 years ago) Permalink

also, Geir surprisingly OTM above ^^^

stephen, Thursday, 1 November 2007 02:35 (6 years ago) Permalink

Generally, the US started to pick up on Depeche Mode around the "Music For The Masses" album

"People Are People" was a bigger hit than anything off MFTM, wasn't it?

Curt1s Stephens, Thursday, 1 November 2007 02:47 (6 years ago) Permalink

bidfurd and That One Guy are right in as much as DM have far less indie cred than either NO or PSB in the UK, probably because of their offputting 'big rock band' image & myths etc. also Gahan is a tit and a rockstar, unlike Sumner or Tennant who are both all-time archetypal english heros.

jabba hands, Thursday, 1 November 2007 02:55 (6 years ago) Permalink

heroes, even. anyway i'm voting PSB.

jabba hands, Thursday, 1 November 2007 02:56 (6 years ago) Permalink

"really?? of any potential PSB album...a remix album?

damn.

-- stephen"

shep pettibone doing west end girls? arthur baker on in the night? gold!

http://www.discogs.com/release/333023

pipecock, Thursday, 1 November 2007 04:33 (6 years ago) Permalink

rock vs. postpunk vs. disco.

i pick pet shop boys, but not because i necessarily pick disco over rock and postpunk. more because their synthesis (which enlists rock and postpunk in the service of disco) is smarter and funnier and has a better beat.

alternately, high school vs. college vs. adulthood. i'll still take the grown-ups.

tipsy mothra, Thursday, 1 November 2007 04:58 (6 years ago) Permalink

As far as these bands are all great and fun and everything, I'm having a really hard time figuring out why anyone wouldn't pick New Order over the other two. It's bewildering.

Lostandfound, Thursday, 1 November 2007 06:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

ned's chart stats don't prove shit -- goths can get a band into the low teens but that doesn't make them okay. their reputation had pretty much vanished by the 90s, whereas i don't think NO or PSBs have ever gone out of fashion.

DM's stock does seem to have risen in the UK in the last five years or so, but even still.

i can't really get my head round the idea of new order as 'post-punk'; it just seems to limit them to the grey early 80s. anything after 'blue monday' is not post-punk.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 1 November 2007 09:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

<i>1. New Order
2. PSB
3. Every other band ever
4. Depeche Mode*</i>

OTM if a wee bit harsh on Depeche, they are crap tho unless you're American or Argentinian or Polish or something

Tom D., Thursday, 1 November 2007 09:57 (6 years ago) Permalink

Oops old skool tags!

Tom D., Thursday, 1 November 2007 09:57 (6 years ago) Permalink

yeah depeche are better than, like, the killers.

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Thursday, 1 November 2007 10:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

With the exception of last year's return to form album from PSB, I would say Depeche Mode is the one out of those three that has been most consistently great also recently.

Geir Hongro, Thursday, 1 November 2007 10:01 (6 years ago) Permalink

for me, New Order miserably fails the "good record in last 15 years" assessment. and that's enough to not vote 'em into first.

stephen, Thursday, 1 November 2007 15:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

so, who does everyone *think* is gonna win this thing?

I'm thinking based on thread feedback, it'll be 1. NO, 2. PSB, 3. DM

but i'm prepared to be shocked - PSB in first, maybe??

for DM to pull into first, there'd have to be an awful lot of lurkers voting for em - then again, DM are arguably the best-known commercially of the three. maybe they have the biggest lurking fanbase here?

????????

stephen, Thursday, 1 November 2007 15:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

ned's chart stats don't prove shit -- goths can get a band into the low teens but that doesn't make them okay.

The question is not whether you find them okay, ya dipstick. It's trying to pretend a fanbase doesn't exist and hasn't existed in the UK, for both albums and singles for that matter. If you just want to think that a goth or two down the road consists of the sole fans you know of, that's your call.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 1 November 2007 15:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

New Order miserably fails the "good record in last 15 years" assessment.

But that's a bogus assessment to begin with. Sly Stone hasn't made a great record since 1973 and he'd get my vote for practically anything.

Kevin John Bozelka, Thursday, 1 November 2007 15:33 (6 years ago) Permalink

Sly Stone hasn't made a great record since 1973

Also a bogus assessment

Tom D., Thursday, 1 November 2007 15:34 (6 years ago) Permalink

Anyway, I don't know that Depeche Mode have never made a great record so New Order still win

Tom D., Thursday, 1 November 2007 15:36 (6 years ago) Permalink

With the exception of last year's return to form album from PSB

Ok now I'm convinced that Geir Hongro is a computer program designed to annoy the shit out of 99% of the globe.

Fwiw, that was their WORST album, even worse than Behaviour which latter I'm praying is not Sot's fave PSB.

This is not counting those hideous remix albums which some psycho above was actually pumping.

Kevin John Bozelka, Thursday, 1 November 2007 15:36 (6 years ago) Permalink

Sly Stone hasn't made a great record since 1973

Also a bogus assessment

Ok, 1982 then. What's the dif?

Kevin John Bozelka, Thursday, 1 November 2007 15:37 (6 years ago) Permalink

Sot's = Soto's

Kevin John Bozelka, Thursday, 1 November 2007 15:42 (6 years ago) Permalink

Fwiw, that was their WORST album, even worse than Behaviour which latter I'm praying is not Sot's fave PSB.

This is not counting those hideous remix albums which some psycho above was actually pumping.

there is so much wrong here.

Gukbe, Thursday, 1 November 2007 15:47 (6 years ago) Permalink


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