2008 Primaries Thread

she was crying because she's never gonna be prez solving all of our problems/the future of America's gonna die with the quixotic, doomed candidacy of the great liberal hope barack obama

presenter 100% OTM

they didn't even have to change the textbook they used on gore in 2000, just dusted it off a little

haha gabbneb you have so much faith in our national institutions no matter how dishonest they are, it's kind of amazing

which ones?

the primary process, the general election process, the press, the national parties

NRO: Margaret Thatcher wouldn't have made fun of Hils.

yeah, I don't pretend that there's some alternative to them that will magically appear like a pony

oh and i so do, gabbneb!

"constantly reinventing herself, the most ambitious politician alive, willing to say and do anything.." yadayada i can't believe you buy all that again

again with the pony

tracer you're being petty and you're smarter than that

In lieu of an eight-paragraph post about Obama race editorial, can I just ask how I was the last person on the planet to notice that Chuck Norris was campaigning for Huckabee? I'm sitting there watching news about the Iowa results and I'm like wait, WTF: was that CHUCK NORRIS in the background there???

smarter than what? the repetition of ancient scripts meant to turn democratic leaders into robotic aliens, propogated by a press corps which is universally acknowledged to viscerally loathe hillary clinton? i should fricking hope so!

of course it is always possible that hillary engaged in some playacting, and squeezed a few tears out in order to have that clip replayed endlessly and mocked by the national media -- what a devious player she is

"constantly reinventing herself, the most ambitious politician alive, willing to say and do anything.." yadayada i can't believe you buy all that again

no, i don't think hrc is driven by ambition. i think she's absolutely driven by the right things (tho i think she's also driven at least in minor part by a desire for revenge at the way she's been attacked and vilified that causes her to want to win for personal reasons). i do think that she constantly reinvents how she goes about it because she just doesn't have especially great political/personal skills the way her husband and obama do, and that she is totally willing to try on different personas/demeanors to try to compensate. i think even people who agree with and admire her dislike and are sick of it and are very happy to find a natural, someone who has the confidence she doesn't, who is unafraid of being open in a way she isn't.

oh, nabisco.

TS: David Bowie vs Prince

nabisco i noticed that. he has a huge head.

I think it will be a while still before a woman is able to exist in national politics in the charismatic natural-charmer way that people like Bill and Barack are

i honestly don't know what the 'motivation' for her 'outburst' is. i can't bring myself to watch the video of it. i'm predisposed to a fair amount of dislike for HRC, so i'm tempted to think it's largely frustration. but, i have no idea what it's really about. shit, i tear up at the right commercial at the wrong time sometimes.

now, as an event, 'stumbles' and/or 'emotional moments' like these are fresh bloody chum to the dim and simplistic end of the media -- local television, crucially -- so sadly enough, this will be an important moment. if i were running a rival campaign, i'd keep my collective trap shut and not give it much air. the temptation to swat at the (deceptively) easy pitch is right there (edwards!!) but if you want to play your own tune for the time being you can't get sucked into this kinda thing.

xps, obv

maybe for "able" in that last post of mine you should substitute "allowed" or "allowed successfully"

probably the definitive chuck-as-pundit moment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IpCuucaZBI

(tracer i wasn't referring to your arguments but your tone. but i'm sorry, i wasn't adding to anything by saying it.)

possible, but there are lots of women who if not quite stars are perfectly capable political performers - condi, sebelius, whitman, napolitano, hutchison, etc.

BOXER

I haven't watched it either but judging from the transcript, yeh I kinda think bbc presenter IS otm. what, she cries when someone asks her who does her hair?? wtf

gabbneb otm re: women. hillary /= all women in politics.

BOXER is a perfectly capable political performer in the way DEAN is

or, er, Thatcher.

Have you seen Hillary's hair lately? She should cry when someone asks her about it!

(cue rage at making hair joke about someone with bad hair who also happens to have a vagina)

dude, she has great helmet hair

why is there ennio morricone-style music in that chuck norris/mike huckabee ad? i don't recall chuck being in any westerns. are they hoping people will confuse him with clint eastwood?

i suppose it's some generalized movie/machismo/lone wolf/stand up for what's right sort of thing.

http://www.ladyofthecake.com/mel/space/images/shothair.jpg

Feinstein WAY more Thatcheresque than Boxer. I pretty much hate her tho (and Thatcher too! quel surprise)

would Thatcher fly here? I'm not so sure.

oh probably not - she struck some particularly British chords in her ascendancy.

I think my favorite nat'l level woman-in-politics is probably Mikulski, actually.

we want our prez to be 'likeable'. even HW was sort of amiable in his country club wimpy thing.

http://www.micklebring.com/bml/images/victoria66brithday.jpg

no, i don't think hrc is driven by ambition. i think she's absolutely driven by the right things

every politician is driven by ambition, kucinich or paul no less than hillary or obama or huckabee. it doesn't necessarily cancel out also being "driven by the right thing," though.

wtf Mikulski's a lesbian??! I had no idea

really hillary is more blatantly ambitious than any candidate running now except maybe giuliani, it's hard to imagine how anyone could miss it

i'm merely explaining to tracer that attacking hillary on style is not the same as the standard rightwing fear-based attack on her as craven harpy

meanwhile Thompson's doin' it so that the Mainstream Media can admire what fine pussy he gets every night.

but if you want to play just to play, i'd suggest that the guy who was a state senator a few years ago might have her beat there

thx for that image Alfred

xpost

That list would be 100% more convincing to me if it didn't contain, like, Condi, who is perceived as even more screened-back / robotic / inhuman than Hillary is: are you seriously imagining Rice making warm forthright connections with people at pancake breakfasts here? The reasons I say that kind of thing isn't yet a wide-open option for women all go kind of double for someone like Rice.

I'd also note that I say that not solely in terms of some kind of suspicion of women or anti-woman bias, but because the current models we have of Likable Politician are all male/masculine models, and there's no reason they SHOULD map neatly onto women, who are still in the process of creating models of whatever kind of persona is the best one for a woman to communicate with an electorate.

Even the Thatcher model here is ... again, it involves not having the warm-human-connection thing someone like Bill Clinton had; one of the selling points of her persona was STERNNESS, for god's sake

Thompson, once again, is just helping out his good buddy Johnny Mac

Condi has her own challenges, sure. Maybe she doesn't belong on the list. But I can totally see her talking football with the folks.

or about pussy with Thompson.

oh DEAR

She talks about pussy with everyone so that's not a stretch.