Stanley Kubrick: Classic or Dud?

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His concerns are systems, not individuals

I think that he is more concerned than most with systems, but that this does not render him unconcerned with individuals. I think he is particularly concerned with the interplay between the individual and the system. It is probably accurate to say that he is far less concerned than most with 'character.' But perhaps he thinks that 'character' is a nice story for people who don't want to think too much about their relationship to a system, and that he doesn't want his movies to be so encumbered.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

you're right, "character" is what I meant. Not that "characters" don't inhabit his films, they usually don't go through the standard h-wood "character arc" bullshit.

― The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

re: "hermeticist" is don't mean "someone who is reclusive" but more of "someone who locks volitile elements inside airtight containers and observes the transformations". Mystical, yeah.

― The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

is = I, oops

― The Argunaut (sexyDancer), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

His Theme is often called dehumanization, ie basic training in Full Metal Jacket is the Ludovico Treatment reversed.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

10 months pass...

this site has some great stuff

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 01:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

Just compare the book with the film and it's obvious that we're supposed to empathize with "poor" Alec – even as he rapes that woman.

Is the contrast here supposed to be that we're not supposed to empathize with Alec in the book? Because I don't think Burgess would agree with that.

― phil d. (Phil D.), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 02:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

Indeed he won't.

― Masked Gazza, Tuesday, 17 January 2006 02:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

EWS is a heartless whore of a movie and its viewer a hapless john who pays his money, heaps praise, looks past the wear and tear and for all his trouble, is greeted with contempt at at two hours' end left with a sour taste or worse and little else.

― Ian in Brooklyn, Tuesday, 17 January 2006 04:07 (7 years ago) Permalink

"But perhaps he thinks that 'character' is a nice story for people who don't want to think too much about their relationship to a system, and that he doesn't want his movies to be so encumbered."

otm, 'character' is so overrated in movies, the same as how lyrics are overrated in songs.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 04:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

>>EWS is a heartless whore of a movie and its viewer a hapless john who pays his money, heaps praise, looks past the wear and tear and for all his trouble, is greeted with contempt at at two hours' end left with a sour taste or worse and little else.

― Brad Laner (Brad Laner), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 04:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

and this is a bad thing ?

― Brad Laner (Brad Laner), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 04:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

i like it

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 06:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

EWS is about NOT cheating.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 14:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

In EWS, there are masters and there are servants.

― senseiDancer (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 22:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

it's actually about the Peruvian healthcare system.

― latebloomer: virtuous, pure and masculine like only an American male can be (lat, Tuesday, 17 January 2006 22:36 (7 years ago) Permalink

it's more about how doctors are not members of the ruling class, but hey

― senseiDancer (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 22:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

yes, it's more about that, but it is about both

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 17 January 2006 22:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

Anyone see Carpenter's Dark Star... pretty good.

― A BOLD QUAHOG (ex machina), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 01:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

sociological reading of ews:

http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/0096.html

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 18 January 2006 11:25 (7 years ago) Permalink

The chanting is a backwards sample of priests giving a Latin mass. Pook felt that by reversing the order of their speech, she would lend the preists a "diabolical" (her word) flavor. Kubrick emphasized this by having the red-robed guy walk around in a counter-clockwise path.

WHOOAAAAA

― TOMBOT, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

Films having possible subtexts, that's just crazy talk!

― latebloomer: virtuous, pure and masculine like only an American male can be (lat, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

(btw that was a comment on the decadence of wife-swapping film critics)

― latebloomer: virtuous, pure and masculine like only an American male can be (lat, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 13:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

holy shit david raposa. so classic its not even funny. full metal jacket, clockwork orange, 2001: space odyssey, dr. stranglove, spartacus.

― cheshire05, Wednesday, 18 January 2006 16:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

Major NYC retro in Astoria; if you've never seen 2001 (70mm) or Lyndon in a theater (or feel the completist's need to see the boxing doc short or Killer's Kiss) you should go:

http://movingimage.us/site/screenings/mainpage/stanley_kubrick.html

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 June 2006 13:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

i was planning on my faves FMJ (w/ Modine!) and EWS

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 2 June 2006 13:52 (6 years ago) Permalink

What is it going to take to get a European print of EWS screened here, without the digital orgy cockblockers?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 2 June 2006 14:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

Good Day, Mr. Kubrick...

i swear to god, part of me just died.

― jed_ (jed), Friday, 27 October 2006 14:17 (6 years ago) Permalink

Finally saw Barry Lyndon last week. I haven't read the Trollope novel, so I can't judge Kubrick's fidelity to its tone and voice. Very amusing minor film: the ideal Merchant Ivory film. Ryan O'Neal's most charming performance.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 27 October 2006 14:23 (6 years ago) Permalink

thackeray

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 27 October 2006 14:28 (6 years ago) Permalink

hardly minor

― RJG (RJG), Friday, 27 October 2006 14:29 (6 years ago) Permalink

Minor, no. "Charming"??? Kubrick's best casting prank before Tom Cruise; a lummox as a lummox.

I read the first 50 Thackeray pages once; it's more overtly jokey, somewhat a la Fielding (tho the early part of the film's pretty funny too).

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 October 2006 14:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

taken on its technological advancements alone "Barry Lyndon" is far from minor. i think it's easily his best film.

― jed_ (jed), Friday, 27 October 2006 14:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

well no, not "easily".

― jed_ (jed), Friday, 27 October 2006 14:59 (6 years ago) Permalink

seconded, Barry Lyndon is one of the top 10 films of the 70s (a decade with an embarassment of riches)

― timmy tannin (pompous), Friday, 27 October 2006 15:30 (6 years ago) Permalink

The film has no momentum. Is the novel's last third as bad as the film's?

Kubrick's best casting prank before Tom Cruise; a lummox as a lummox.

Nah. Again, haven't read the Thackeray novel, but O'Neal didn't mangle the brogue, was adept with a sword, and was believable as a passive lover.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 27 October 2006 15:41 (6 years ago) Permalink

I had this frustratingly semi-valid argument with someone last night about Kubrick vs. Cassavetes, (I said C, he said D; still a very unfair comparison). I feel that with the approach the man took to filmmaking, coupled with the fact that he created a masterpiece in most every genre he dabbled in (Strangelove = one of the best comedies, FMJ = 1otb war films, 2001 = 1otb sci-fi, Shining = 1otb horror, etc, etc), it's simply understood that Kubrick is the greatest director. This kid was saying the primary reason Kubrick made such masterpieces was because he had unlimited resources and very few bondaries, and how if Cassavetes had access to what Kubrick had, he would be far superior. He also compared him to Spielberg :-( Actually, now that I'm sober, that whole unlimited resources angle sounds like complete bullshit.

Kubrick is as C as C can fucking get.

― less-than three's Christiane F. (drowned in milk), Friday, 27 October 2006 15:45 (6 years ago) Permalink

Cassavetes on a big budget would've done the same, only 400 takes instead of 100.

The last third of Barry Lyndon is far more passionate and intelligent about violence and revenge than all of Clockwork Orange.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 October 2006 16:28 (6 years ago) Permalink

The film has no momentum.

Kubrick isn't exactly reknowned for his breakneck pacing. I get what Morbius is saying about the stunt casting, too. Casting Ryan O'Neal (whose rep at the time was as a shallow pretty boy actor - though he probably picked up some bounce in cred for Paper Moon) and Marisa Berenson (a model) is akin to Anthony Minghella announcing that the stars of his next epic are Skeet Ulrich and Kate Moss.

I was quite taken aback by how much I enjoyed Barry Lyndon the first time I saw it. I wouldn't call it Kubrick's best, but it's near the top. I think The Shining is, in some way, Kubrick's reaction to Barry Lyndon's lukewarm reception upon release - as if he wanted to punish the audience for turning its back.

― Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 27 October 2006 19:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

Eyes Wide Shut > Barry Lyndon. It's not a minor film, but is it really a major one?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 27 October 2006 20:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

The last third of Barry Lyndon is far more passionate and intelligent about violence and revenge than all of Clockwork Orange.

A dying boy will get'em in the gut every time.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 27 October 2006 20:08 (6 years ago) Permalink

Ryan O'Neal was a big big star at the time (not for long obv). I love the score selection, and the way it jibes with the pacing. Very stately. "They are all equal now."

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Friday, 27 October 2006 20:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, Edward, O'Neal had been in Love Story, What's Up, Doc?, and Paper Moon, all huge hits (O'Neal got a Best Actor nod for LS). There's no contemporary analogy I can construct; I keep thinking Cruise in Interview with a Vampire, but that's not a stately adaptation of a minor Thackeray novel.

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Friday, 27 October 2006 21:00 (6 years ago) Permalink

it's been too long since i saw BL to say much, but i do remember loving the score, and the final duel scene.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 27 October 2006 21:20 (6 years ago) Permalink

Good Day, Mr. Kubrick 2006

― a.b. (alanbanana), Monday, 30 October 2006 09:37 (6 years ago) Permalink

When my Mam and Dad went to see Barry Lyndon in the cinema, there weren't many people there, and there was a guy a few rows in front of them who was asleep when they came in. He woke up about ten minutes into the film, watched it for about another twenty minutes, then said loudly "where's the fuckin' shark?" and left.

― accentmonkey (accentmonkey), Monday, 30 October 2006 09:54 (6 years ago) Permalink

I haven't read the Trollope novel, so I can't judge Kubrick's fidelity to its tone and voice.

this isn't *terribly* important is it?

― benrique (Enrique), Monday, 30 October 2006 13:25 (6 years ago) Permalink

my favourite colour is GREEN

― teh_kit returns! (g-kit), Monday, 30 October 2006 13:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

i mean he had 0x fidelity to nabokov, schnitzler, or that one guy who wrote 'failsafe'.

― benrique (Enrique), Monday, 30 October 2006 13:29 (6 years ago) Permalink

If I remember correctly, Eyes Wide Shut actually is pretty faithful to Schnitzler, except Kubrick added some stuff in the end.

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Monday, 30 October 2006 13:35 (6 years ago) Permalink

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