White trick-or-treaters in blackface: C/D?

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I just suddenly remembered that for Halloween 1990 (at the height of the Iraqi occupation of Kuwait) I went as an Arab, complete with head scarf and fake beard.

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Andy, who the hell do you think New Era licences those things from? God? Steinbrenner? Ben Wallace?

Are the Birmingham Black Barons playing in a new stadium with their cut?

I really doubt that New Era has put all of their profits from Negro Leagues merchandise into the pockets of the children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren of Negro Leagues vets. I could see a few museum displays, perhaps.

(I WOULD REALLY LIKE SOMEONE TO PROVE ME WRONG HERE.)

Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:06 (eighteen years ago) link

and this whole 'admiration' thing is a lame cop-out, since when does positivity excuse racism?? is it perfectly inoffensive to say that black people are predisposed to athleticism and have natural rhythm, or that jews are good with money?

_, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:06 (eighteen years ago) link

ethan your last post still suggested that most americans would find what this kid did 'inexcusable.' i don't know why you feel misrepresented.

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:06 (eighteen years ago) link

im only grasping because it was a stupid one-off analogy which everyone pounced on so they could ignore everything else i said

_, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:07 (eighteen years ago) link

and for the record i dont have any problem w/ white folks in negro leagues hats/jerseys/whatever, no different from me wearing a 2pac shirt

_, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:07 (eighteen years ago) link

i think we need to define what 'inexcusable' means. that he should be grounded? spanked? tried as an adult? or just that he should go home and put on that Paul Wall outfit his mother bought him in the first place.

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:09 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.mgglass.it/straws.jpg

xpost yeah no, I know you wouldn't have an issue with that, I have no fucking clue what Andy is on about.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:09 (eighteen years ago) link

most americans dont find blackface inexcusable? can anyone find an example for me of recent, acceptable blackface? what about those frat parties where white guys dress up like their favorite rappers, with gold chains and brown makeup- did anyone defend that?? im sure they admired snoop just as much as lil white kids admire ben wallace!!

_, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:09 (eighteen years ago) link

im sure they admired snoop just as much as lil white kids admire ben wallace!!

ok NOW you're stretching

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:11 (eighteen years ago) link

no different from me wearing a 2pac shirt

What about a FUBU shirt?

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:11 (eighteen years ago) link

really i cant believe a bunch of usually reasonable people are arguing that we live in a post-racial utopia where white blackface is ok as long as they "admire" black people

_, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:11 (eighteen years ago) link

i wasnt comparing a kid blacked up as ben wallace to a kid dressed hitler, i was comparing two offensive costumes!! ghosts are scary, hitler is scary, you can kinda see how some fucked up kid might draw the conclusion that hitler would make a good costume, but it would offend a lot of people, even though halloween costumes are about scaring people!! its baldly disingenous to pretend that i was trying to say that admiring black athletes is like the holocaust or whatever the fuck yall are doing- like i clarified above, offensive in practice not intent
-- _ (...), November 1st, 2005 4:02 PM. (later) (link)

maybe you should have compared blacking up with dressing up as a ghost, and it would have made it more clear.

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:11 (eighteen years ago) link

xxxxxxp: Have we already discussed the fact that you can't GET that Tintin episode in the States any more? That one and err "Tintin in Soviet Russia" (whatever the title really is, I don't know any French) only appear an French-language editions -- they're not included on the ad-pages for any American publication.

Jesus god, Dan & Ally Oll Korrect here.

Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:11 (eighteen years ago) link

I'll admit I think too much about that stuff (re: Negro Leagues). Can the average white person wearing a Negro League hat name two other teams, or more than five players? Probably not. They're probably wearing it to be cool, or because they like the design. Should I care? Probably not.

Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:12 (eighteen years ago) link

and this whole 'admiration' thing is a lame cop-out, since when does positivity excuse racism?? is it perfectly inoffensive to say that black people are predisposed to athleticism and have natural rhythm, or that jews are good with money?

You haven't explained how a kid dressing up as his favorite athlete is racism in any way, still. Besides making a really tenuous complete-lack-of-perspective comparison to actual racists pretending to be blacks and doing minstrel shows. Which, like I said, is kind of a disservice to any kind of civil rights/anti-racism cause. This is the kind of bullshit that gets people mired into ridiculous arguments because, you know what, no, most Americans would not find a kid doing this inexcusable. He's NOT dressed up as Hitler. He's NOT dressed up as, say, OJ Simpson.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:12 (eighteen years ago) link

I have no fucking clue what Andy is on about.

Haha I am Duran Duran.

Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Burning the ground, you break from the crowd.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:13 (eighteen years ago) link

http://www.humorgazette.com/images/prince-nazi.jpg

sexyDancer (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:14 (eighteen years ago) link

ive never worn fubu but i know plenty of white folks who do (discount mall yall), there is alot of clothes i opt out of buying even though i like how it looks (love algierz but only rock the logo, never gonna fuck with w/ tips shirt on a white body)

_, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:15 (eighteen years ago) link

and this whole 'admiration' thing is a lame cop-out, since when does positivity excuse racism?? is it perfectly inoffensive to say that black people are predisposed to athleticism and have natural rhythm, or that jews are good with money?
-- _ (...)

if you draw this conclusion from a kid who dressed up as a sports person who happens to be black. then perhaps YOU are the one who is stereotyping???

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:15 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't know if the blackface inexcusable, but I'd find it fairly uncomfortable if those kids came to my house.

It's on the same level as when my high-school cafeteria, to celebrate Black History Month, served fried chicken and greens.

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:16 (eighteen years ago) link

ethan is there any point on ilx that you are going to stop speaking for teh minorities?

we aren't talking about some fucking douchebag with shoe polish on his face and bright red lipstick and white out around his eyes waving around a bucket of goddamn chicken, you're talking about a kid, probably under the age of 12, wearing a basketball jersey and some darker-colored foundation! You don't see at all how the reaction this is garnering from a couple of you is a little off?

Like I said, I can understand being like wtf, or saying something to the kid like "Some people might find that offensive," I mean I really wouldn't want my kid doing that just because of that, but this level of outrage? Comparing it to Hitler and rape? Jesus christ.

I gotta say, ken OTM.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:17 (eighteen years ago) link

(xpost to myself) (In the sense that, yeah, I understand that it's supposed to be a tribute to black culture, but there's too much history and subtext there for it to be completely inoffensive.)

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:17 (eighteen years ago) link

seriously as much as yall wanna pretend we live in some post-racial utopia where everybody is on the same footing there is still shit that white folks are not allowed to do and blackface is high up on the list. who decides this shit? black community standards, and just like im sure you can find black folks who didnt think slavery was so bad or are cool with white kids callin em the n-word you can find people who dont mind non-hostile "innocent" blackface, but when shit will defend 9 out of 10 of the people you are dressing up as white people need to just let it go

_, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:18 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost: my jr. high school did that once. really embarrasing!

sexyDancer (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:18 (eighteen years ago) link

TOMBOT, you were aware that Hergé was (mildly) rightwing?

nathalie, a bum like you (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:18 (eighteen years ago) link

Brits: is this offensive??

http://www.papalazarou.co.uk/pd/images/postcard3.jpg

hobart paving (hobart paving), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:19 (eighteen years ago) link

yall wanna pretend we live in some post-racial utopia where everybody is on the same footing

wtf?

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:19 (eighteen years ago) link

sorry many xposts- not tryna speak for minorities, bullshit and you know it

_, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:20 (eighteen years ago) link

hobart, no because it's character based and deliberately provocative thus only 'offensive' in the way that David Brent's racism is.


Reeves & Mortimer blacking up to play Otis Redding and Marvin Gaye with Geordie accents, WAS deemed offensive by some though (they then had to do the act minus paint).

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:22 (eighteen years ago) link

For the record, Ben Wallace:

http://www.manmademultimedia.com/magazine/news/ent/2004/2/All_Star.jpgs/Ben_Wallace.jpg

I mean how do you wear a Ben Wallace costume without at least doing the hair--which was already labelled as being "uncomfortable" when white people don the 'fro wigs. WTF, I mean a kid walking around with just a Ben Wallace jersey on and nothing else to signify, "I am Ben Wallace," that's a lame ass costume. I wouldn't give that kid a 3 Musketeers, that's for sure.

I mean, I'm not saying that he should've necessarily gone the whole hog with it (I mean I am the person who already said WTF, Ben Wallace?) but I mean how do the two of you recommend someone do a Ben Wallace costume without putting on ANYTHING that might be offensive to you?

Or do white people have to dress as white people, blacks as blacks, men as men, women as women, etc etc etc? I don't see anything wrong with a totally innocent Halloween costume.

xpost no one is pretending anything, we're telling you you are overreacting HARDCORE.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:22 (eighteen years ago) link

um, ethan when you say "white people need to let it go" and that "black community standards," which you evidently can speak with authority about, decide these things, you kinda sound like you're speaking for a minority.

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:23 (eighteen years ago) link

anthony that was referring to dan's

the point SHOULD be that we are all people and therefore should get treated the same.

which can be used to excuse a lot of foul, racist shit

_, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:23 (eighteen years ago) link

wtf?

Can I echo that?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:24 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah, it's also an ideal people strive for, ethan.

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:24 (eighteen years ago) link

Reeves & Mortimer blacking up to play Otis Redding and Marvin Gaye with Geordie accents, WAS deemed offensive by some though (they then had to do the act minus paint).

This I can understand more than the Halloween costume thing...I mean why not just hire black comedians? Saturday Night Live does this as well and I'm not that fond of it, especially since the guy they always "black up" is such an awful unfunny douchebag whose impressions are all crap. I mean seriously just hire some more black comedians, people.

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:25 (eighteen years ago) link

it's not people here think we've achieved it. x-post

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:25 (eighteen years ago) link

well, in my neighbourhood a kid doing this would get slapped silly, but really i think it's the parents who deserve it for letting their child do it in the 1st place. ethan is absolutely spot-on here because it's not the kid's fault for having a black sporting hero, it's his parents' fault for not realising that painting yourself black still has certain less than positive associations for a sizeable chunk of american society. i'm speaking as someon who remembers the black and white minstrels being on british tv, too.

sfxxxx, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:26 (eighteen years ago) link

a million xposts I think if in the moment seeing this, someone tried to explain it off as a "tribute to black culture," I'd smack the shit out of them. Kids are dumb and they need to get things explained to them, but an adult saying something as retarded as that needs an ass-kicking.

Candicissima (candicissima), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:26 (eighteen years ago) link

for fucks sake!! i seriously cant believe i am sitting here in 2005 trying to explain white privelege and imbalance of power to people on ile... since nobody will address any of my points except one shaky analogy, let me ask again- are whites allowed to use the n-word in imitating a black man they "admire"? are you honestly saying that white people caricaturing black people is the same as blacks dressing as whites??

_, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:26 (eighteen years ago) link

especially since the guy they always "black up" is such an awful unfunny douchebag whose impressions are all crap
Finesse Mitchell is not in makeup, Ally.

when something smacks of something (dave225.3), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:27 (eighteen years ago) link

I mean why not just hire black comedians?

there have never been that many good ones in the UK [/'racist']

Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:27 (eighteen years ago) link

ethan, maybe your problem is "sitting here in 2005 trying to explain white privelege and imbalance of power to people on ile" when all people are saying is that the kid's just ignorant.

miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:28 (eighteen years ago) link

for fucks sake!! i seriously cant believe i am sitting here in 2005 trying to explain white privelege and imbalance of power to people on ile...

i can

sfxxx, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:28 (eighteen years ago) link

stxxx's neighbourhood sucks

ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:28 (eighteen years ago) link

and yeah i dont blame the kid but its the parents job to teach them whats deemed racially insensitive just as it is to teach them all cultural standards. miccio im not speaking for minority when i defer to a community standard any more than you are for arguing the opposite, i dont include myself in the black community but you me and everyone else on this thread knows the general opinion of any form of white blackface

_, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:30 (eighteen years ago) link

Errr I don't think anyone here is calling this a "tribute to black culture."

xpost no I mean that one dude, the one who sometimes does Bill Clinton, who is that guy? Whatever he is, he's crap.

xxpost ETHAN NO ONE IS SAYING THAT, WE'RE SAYING THAT YOU ARE OVERREACTING, IS THIS QUESTIONABLE? YES. IS THIS "INEXCUSABLE"? NO, IT'S A KID DRESSING UP AS HIS HERO. SHOULD HIS PARENTS HAVE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THIS? PROBABLY, THEY SHOULD'VE ASKED HIM TO NOT DRESS UP AS BEN WALLACE. THE CONCLUSIONS YOU ARE DRAWING FROM THIS EVENT AND PEOPLE SAYING "LISTEN IT'S NOT AS BAD AS THAT" ARE REALLY KIND OF CRAZY. ALSO YOU ARE WHITE. ALSO YOU ARE TEAMING UP WITH A DUDE WHO IS BOTHERED BY PEOPLE WHO WEAR NEGRO LEAGUE HATS AND AFROS ON HALLOWEEN WHICH KIND OF PROBABLY MAKES YOUR ARGUMENT LOOK MORE CRAP.

posted in caps cos I don't think you are getting it that we're just saying "You are overreacting."

Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:30 (eighteen years ago) link

Stevem, can't Lenny Henry just do everything?

jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:31 (eighteen years ago) link

i mean i hate to keep repeating myself but can someone, ANYONE, find me an example of how acceptable it is in america to have white people blacking up? has it occured at all in the past 30 years without a significant, sizable protest?? its not ok just because we're "striving" for a post-racial society

xpost i am not "teaming up" with dude, but i agree about afro wigs on halloween as stated above

_, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:32 (eighteen years ago) link


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